"Nem-Assists": The Nemesis Teambuilding/Assists Thread

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  • DazedDazed Two Frame Kill Joined: Posts: 597
    not to state obvious old news over and over, but otg assists also let Nemesis do slightly more damage via cH/Rocket/BHR.

    as for this off point Nem discussion, I play him second b/c my team is centered around Hulk.
    GT: Paralyzed Fist PSN: Togamera
    YT
  • MacarrattiMacarratti Joined: Posts: 1,421
    not to state obvious old news over and over, but otg assists also let Nemesis do slightly more damage via cH/Rocket/BHR.

    as for this off point Nem discussion, I play him second b/c my team is centered around Hulk.

    Yeah, if I'm able to tack a rocket into a hyper on a combo, I prefer that over RL slam H. It does more damage and scales better I find.
  • motion51motion51 Joined: Posts: 387
    rockets are to nemmy as unscaled vertical grabs are to spencer...the more you land the more damage youll output!
    number of hits vs damage vs scaling nonsense...rockets are the shit!!!

    in that regard i find ground bounce assists and certain wallbounce assists are great for getting massive damage with nemesis, sure he has his own toolset to get those things to happen on his own but why not throw out a rocket and assist call and get a free second rocket out of it?
  • sexy rancherossexy rancheros Joined: Posts: 8
    On Tron:
    Gustaff Fire does scale combos badly, but I never use it in combos because of how j. H is now and I honestly can't picture a situation where you have to use it in order to extend a combo.

    In regards to assists, is it even possible to have both assists unavailable outside of a combo? I think you guys are making too big of a deal about what assists she needs to go into her supers. From my testing, only two characters on the Capcom side(Morrigan and Zero) have no assist that lets you transition from OTG to super. Sure, some might only let you get Lunchtime and not King Servbot, but it's better than nothing. Only one assist(Strider's Gram) is unrealistic in practice because of how strong one of his others(Vajra) is.

    If you have X-Factor, you don't need an assist to land a super in an extended combo. You can just end the combo before you typically call an assist and OTG and instead go straight into King Servbot and after the cinematic ends, you X-Factor and OTG. If you don't have any other characters or X-Factor, you're boned(or should I say Bonned?!). All you can really do is just shorten your combos and go for Lunchtime.

    I personally don't have any command grab setups. You should check out some of Rikir's matches. He seems to land them a lot. You can mitigate some of its poor range if you kara with s. H. Also, keep her ground dash in mind in regards to the range of her command grab and her ground normals.

    On Tron/Nem:
    My litmus test for whether a character has good DHC synergy with Tron is whether you can land a King Servbot or not and Nemesis passes this test. Also if the DHC ends up near the corner, if you didn't use up Tron's assist with Nemesis on point, which is very likely, and if you have Nemesis on rocket assist and maybe even clocket, you can end the combo in the same fashion as the one I posted earlier in this thread. You can also land Nem's punch super from Lunchtime and I think even from King Servbot. I don't know if that's noteworthy, though.

    Both rocket and clocket allow you to transition from OTG to super for Tron.

    Also, if you used Nem's assist before you can OTG to super and have two bars, you can THC. After the bounce from the boot, you can beacon bomb and end it in the same fashion as the combo I listed earlier.

    On Tron/Chris:
    Chris passes my DHC test as well because you can land King Servbot from his grenade launcher super and I'm pretty sure his sweep one as well.

    If you have Chris on Gunfire assist and it's available in a combo, you can call his assist, OTG, H drill into Lunchtime. You can also use it to set up for j. H H drill finisher after the DHC into Tron as well, but it's harder to get it to hit than Nem's rocket.

    On Bum's Nem team:
    I don't understand the order, especially if he goes for THCs because Cap can't OTG Shield Slash and THC. I could understand if Nem required Arthur's Goddess Bracelet in order for the boot not to whiff, but he doesn't.

    What is Nem's DHC problem? Is it the boot whiffing, damage, or something else entirely?

    I also advise against putting Arthur in Gold Armor and tagging him out. Sure, it makes his assists better, but you're risking a lot by doing so if your opponent's character can OTG him after his armor breaks. You also have to burn a bar to get him back to his normal state if you don't want to deal with the extra damage he receives in his underwear(I think he takes 40% more damage).

    On Airtola's team:
    I also don't understand the order of his team. Nem's rocket super seems practically designed for a Gamma Crush DHC. Also, if he had Hulk on anti-air assist, he can probably play kind of lame with Nem. Sure, Nem doesn't do as much damage as Hulk, but Hulk requires the corner to do the most damage and Nem's rocket super is good at carrying the opponent closer to it. Also, the assist he has with Nem(rocket) is pretty much just for combo extension in the corner since he has Task's arrows to cover his approach.

    On Nem's THC:
    I actually investigated THCs a lot at the end of vanilla and early on in Ultimate. Unless you're playing Wesker, the key ingredient I found for most THCs is a super that OTGs quickly and Nem's fulfills that role. His THC is also unique in that it lasts a while(it seems a little shorter than Okami Shuffle), carries to the corner well, and produces a ground bounce even if you've used it up in a combo, which led me to...

    On Haggar/Nem THC:
    My brain immediately went to this combo yesterday after reading this discussion and it worked. I didn't test it extensively, but from what little testing I've done, it seems to work best on larger characters and it seems to not work on smaller characters. Maybe, it does, but if that's the case, the timing seems super strict. You can probably take shortcuts to mitigate this issue. The whole point of this was for it to be corner to corner and to produce a ground bounce for Haggar in case he already used his. The vibe I get is that smaller the character is, the less it becomes a true corner to corner combo. This combo could probably be optimized more, but here it goes.
    j. Pipe, c. M S, air MMH Pipe, call Nem, c. H, Nem Rocket, f. H, whiff L Hoodlum Launcher, c. H, whiff f. H, c. H, whiff f. H, THC, dash to corner, Nem boot from THC, [c. M, H Hoodlum Launcher reset], [j. qcf. S, c. H, whiff f. H, c. H, whiff f. H], or [j. Pipe, c. H, whiff f. H, c. H, whiff f. H]
    The damage I'm about to post is based on Haggar's super whiffing, which it will if you're not near the corner when you THC. It does ~751,800 before the Hoodlum Launcher reset. ~800,300 with the j. qcf. S finisher. ~786,800 with j. Pipe finisher. You can also probably finish the combo with S, air qcf. S, c. H x2, but I'm not good at landing air qcf. S raw in general. You can also probably extend the combo even more with assists if you don't go the reset route. The closer to the opposing corner you are at the beginning of the combo, the easier it is to dash and finish it. I'm bad at wave dashing with Haggar so when it was truly a corner to corner combo, I had a hard time finishing it. The parts where character size cause problems is the Nem Rocket and the second c. H after the whiff L Hoodlum Launcher. The second c. H is not that big of a problem. It's just nice to do because it pushes the character further towards the corner and thus losing some of its corner to corner potential if avoided. Nem Rocket is a bigger problem. You need the f. H to hit. Otherwise, the combo drops and the character recovers. That's where the timing gets strict as character size diminishes. On Sentinel and Hulk, it's easy. On Rocket Raccoon, it might be impossible. This problem could probably be fixed by just using an assist from another character instead. This part pushes characters closer to the corner as well so it becomes even less of a true corner to corner if it's omitted. Keep in mind, I tested all this with just Haggar and Nem basically in a vacuum so make sure that whatever team you construct that the super from the other character in the THC doesn't mess up Nem's.

    EDIT: You can totally do the Hoodlum Launcher reset with s. L with this combo. For some reason, I thought you couldn't.
    EDIT AGAIN: Alright, I'm an idiot. You can do a much simpler combo that from my testing works on everyone and is truly corner to corner.
    j. Pipe, c. M S, air MMH PIpe S, dash, c. H, whiff f. H x whiff L Hoodlum Launcher, c. H, whiff f. H, THC
    The one above probably build more bar and does more damage, but this one is more realistic. This is becoming the neverending post.

    Man, this post is long as all hell, but at least, some of it is on topic this time.
  • DazedDazed Two Frame Kill Joined: Posts: 597
    ^ couple things:

    Gustaff Fire is still used in and still starts certain combos (i.e fM anti-air, Fire CC, neutral jump airthrow, etc). Regardless of scaling, Tron's damage mostly comes from being a self sustained meter hog. Sure there are situational oddities like jH, jMMH etc that will retain high meterless damage at minimum scaling, but those are in the far minority and almost never used.

    imo King Servbot-XF-OTG is only good for happy birthdays, or if (god forbid) Tron's anchor. works great tho.

    I've never felt that Tron/Nem (a troll team I run) had good synergy, but it is fun to exploit the Beacon Bomb reset on foes that don't know about it.

    Airtola's team comp actually makes perfect sense if he's going for what I think he has it for (ground/air throw ToDs). Anyone here know which Hulk assist he runs?
    GT: Paralyzed Fist PSN: Togamera
    YT
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,891
    Stuff


    Few things to note.

    Tron having both assists available is dumb. More realistically she's going to have one, as a Heavy will need to spend an assist in some way trying to get in. And the reason everyone makes a big deal about it is because it IS a big deal, since the damage difference is huge with or without assists. People don't like being shoe-horned into other options when bigger damage can be had without the reliance(keyword here) on assists. Nemesis, Hulk, Sentinel all have super damaging combos on their own, Even Haggar's damage is only accented by his assists, even though it is a huge boost, there's something base there. But Tron, not so much, she trades her damage for meter in the hopes of using it at length, but as we said earlier, we need assists for that. This is an uncompromising game, and we spend every resource trying to kill people. If we don't, we damn well have a good excuse for it. But more importantly, we also need characters who can still fight with all their resources taken away. Hulk, Nemesis, Sentinel, even Haggar can all still do good damage in sub-optimal instances, whereas Tron falls flat.

    Bum probably goes for THCs because while he could Shield slash, HCS, Goddess Bracelet, BWA, damage scaling is so harsh to Nemesis he wants to get it in while he can. A BWA at max scale does less than 100,000 damage

    Airtola's order is the way it is because his Hulk is VASTLY superior to his Nemesis, which is of course only saying that his Nemesis is pretty good while his Hulk is WOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Plus, the extended combos he gets off of Rocket assist make Hulk kill pretty much anyone outright. In addition, yes Gamma Crush to BWA is a super powerful DHC and totally worth the order of the team. Why? Think about it for a second, Gamma Crush is the one Hyper Hulk lands consistently because it's really the only damaging option after Gamma Charge. He turns random Gamma Charge attacks from 'Ow!' to 'Dead'. And trust me, that move is one he will always land. So while the other order may have Nemesis better at adapting and Hulk as a better assist.......he doesn't need. He gets in fine, so might as well go for more damage.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DazedDazed Two Frame Kill Joined: Posts: 597
    Few things to note.

    Tron having both assists available is dumb. More realistically she's going to have one, as a Heavy will need to spend an assist in some way trying to get in. And the reason everyone makes a big deal about it is because it IS a big deal, since the damage difference is huge with or without assists. People don't like being shoe-horned into other options when bigger damage can be had without the reliance(keyword here) on assists. Nemesis, Hulk, Sentinel all have super damaging combos on their own, Even Haggar's damage is only accented by his assists, even though it is a huge boost, there's something base there. But Tron, not so much, she trades her damage for meter in the hopes of using it at length, but as we said earlier, we need assists for that. This is an uncompromising game, and we spend every resource trying to kill people. If we don't, we damn well have a good excuse for it. But more importantly, we also need characters who can still fight with all their resources taken away. Hulk, Nemesis, Sentinel, even Haggar can all still do good damage in sub-optimal instances, whereas Tron falls flat.

    having to use one ClakeyD assist (and yes, Tron needs one) and one assist to get in is a big deal now? Isn't this already like several characters? the ClakeyD assist often also works as lockdown while the assist to get in can usually be used to extend off throws...

    obv you're going to only play Tron on point, or second for the Gustaff CC. This isn't Vanilla where folks would anchor her...
    Airtola's order is the way it is because his Hulk is VASTLY superior to his Nemesis, which is of course only saying that his Nemesis is pretty good while his Hulk is WOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Plus, the extended combos he gets off of Rocket assist make Hulk kill pretty much anyone outright. In addition, yes Gamma Crush to BWA is a super powerful DHC and totally worth the order of the team. Why? Think about it for a second, Gamma Crush is the one Hyper Hulk lands consistently because it's really the only damaging option after Gamma Charge. He turns random Gamma Charge attacks from 'Ow!' to 'Dead'. And trust me, that move is one he will always land. So while the other order may have Nemesis better at adapting and Hulk as a better assist.......he doesn't need. He gets in fine, so might as well go for more damage.

    I'm pretty sure that hyper only works if they're cornered?

    (also this is why I play Drones. no need to use meter for combos after a cornerned foe got caught by a horizontal g-charge...)
    GT: Paralyzed Fist PSN: Togamera
    YT
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,891
    having to use one ClakeyD assist (and yes, Tron needs one) and one assist to get in is a big deal now? Isn't this already like several characters? the ClakeyD assist often also works as lockdown while the assist to get in can usually be used to extend off throws...

    obv you're going to only play Tron on point, or second for the Gustaff CC. This isn't Vanilla where folks would anchor her...



    I'm pretty sure that hyper only works if they're cornered?

    (also this is why I play Drones. no need to use meter for combos after a cornerned foe got caught by a horizontal g-charge...)

    It's a big deal when it's almost mandatory. No, relying on assists isn't bad in general, but being forced to use them is a sign that there's an issue somewhere. Tron is a heavy that does no damage without assists and without meter(Which she does earn in her combos so that works just fin). At neutral, she's a heavy that does little and needs multiple combos and optimal circumstance to be truly dangerous.

    Uh, no, Gamma Charge into Gamma Crush works from anywhere.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Speaking of Wesker, is it really important that Nemesis gets an OTG assist?
    No, BUT it certainly helps. For a lot of improvised hitconfirms, I can make meh damage into good damage if I haven't already used my otg. Also, as for Wesker/X-23/Shulk, all three can be used for unblockables as well, makes them feel like jumping, so you may even get some air throws off it. And Wesker has a good pickup for setting up resets. Shulk's is great for that as well. X-23's picks them up rather low, but I've been coming up with some really unconventional resets lately. I have a new corner reset that is at the end of Doublebounce bnb or a DR relaunch bnb that only is stopped by neutral techs from characters smaller than cap, and Jill and Zero can tech it forward. Problem is I still need to train it more often to figure out how to set it up. There is also some extension that comes with an otg assist, so though Nem doesn't need an OTG assist by any means, he certainly gets benefits from it.
    On Bum's Nem team:
    I don't understand the order, especially if he goes for THCs because Cap can't OTG Shield Slash and THC. I could understand if Nem required Arthur's Goddess Bracelet in order for the boot not to whiff, but he doesn't.
    I'm stiff tryin' to figure it out, but he has got a few resets with Cap to build meter, and he normally otgs into shield slash to kill a character, just the THC does a lot of damage, and who needs the shield slash to otg, when Nem does it for ya? And Nem's role in the THC extends both Arthur and Cap starting it up, without a problem, and with either Cap or Arthur dead. In addition, both Cap and Arthur benefit greatly from the Nemesis assist, and can use it to extend combos quite a bit, as well as bringing their incoming crossup game up to par with other characters. That's what I can figure out so far.
    What is Nem's DHC problem? Is it the boot whiffing, damage, or something else entirely?
    Nem's DHC rockets connect off a ton of people, but the damage reduces like crazy. Like, to an absurd amount. He never seems to do more than 100k with his rockets, and not much more with his punches, which don't setup nicely from everything. My team especially suffers from this. I would NEVER DHC from X-23 back into Nem unless I needed the extra 50k for one meter (she has to stop Rage Trigger during the more damaging part if she wants to DHC, it's not too great).
    On Nem's THC:
    I actually investigated THCs a lot at the end of vanilla and early on in Ultimate. Unless you're playing Wesker, the key ingredient I found for most THCs is a super that OTGs quickly and Nem's fulfills that role. His THC is also unique in that it lasts a while(it seems a little shorter than Okami Shuffle), carries to the corner well, and produces a ground bounce even if you've used it up in a combo, which led me to...
    Yup, I especially like that carries across the screen aspect. I found that for Nem's boot to connect 100% of the time, the super/s going along with it gotta make some odd stun or knockdown state happen at the end. Or they have to last a while. C. Viper, Dormington, Arthur, Cap, Spencer, Thor, maybe even Iron Fist, there's probably more, maybe Tron and Chris, but I am guessing now, based on how I've seen their supers work with different combinations.
    On Haggar/Nem THC:STUFF
    I keep trying Nem and Haggar, but I find I am not huge on the synergy, despite Haggar having great combos for pretty much every assist. My judgment for who works on a Haggar team is if I can relaunch from a single dropkick otg, and if I do that early, corner-to-corner becomes significantly easier. Nem's assist is nothing too amazing for Haggsy, and Haggar's get off me assist is really only great for making whiffed command throws safe against larger chars, because Nem has a lot of getoffme tools as it is. My favorite Haggar synergy is Ryu, Cap, and Skrull, but these are not the usual choices, so on a Haggar team, it's really who you want to synergize, and you'll find a way. He's got just way too many tools :D
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    It's a big deal when it's almost mandatory. No, relying on assists isn't bad in general, but being forced to use them is a sign that there's an issue somewhere. Tron is a heavy that does no damage without assists and without meter(Which she does earn in her combos so that works just fin). At neutral, she's a heavy that does little and needs multiple combos and optimal circumstance to be truly dangerous.

    Uh, no, Gamma Charge into Gamma Crush works from anywhere.
    Also, I swear that this was corner, seeing as when my friends mistakenly go Charge to Crush out of the corner, I punish the crap out of it.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,891
    Also, I swear that this was corner, seeing as when my friends mistakenly go Charge to Crush out of the corner, I punish the crap out of it.

    Why do people think Charge to Crush is corner only? Charge puts people in the perfect position for a crush, then DHC to Nemesis (wait a second after final hit for proper positioning) and bam, 687,000 damage off Gamma Charge. Granted, it costs two meters, but it still hurts like hell.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Why do people think Charge to Crush is corner only? Charge puts people in the perfect position for a crush, then DHC to Nemesis (wait a second after final hit for proper positioning) and bam, 687,000 damage off Gamma Charge. Granted, it costs two meters, but it still hurts like hell.
    Huh, then my friends have crappy timing, because they miss Crush so much, they only do so when they thought it was corner. Gotta tell Hulks I know to step up their game. Though, that's less important. I'm back home, which means training mode is back, and all my friends here main Cap, Akuma, and Iron Man, not all on the same teams. So the Hulk matchup, though one of my favs, is less important to me.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • IZpawIZpaw Standard Gamer Joined: Posts: 101
    I have alot of question for nemesis players and i was going to make a nemesis Q & A thread, but choose not to. Anyways i have 12 teams with nemesis on it, and i wanted input from the community on my teams :3
    1.) Tron, Haggar, Nemesis
    2.) Nemesis, Vergil, Wesker
    3.) Phoenix Wright, Nemesis, Frank
    4.) FireBrand, Felicia, Nemesis
    5.) Nemesis, Trish, Joe
    6.) Arthur, Ryu, Nemesis
    7.) Nemesis, Capt. America, Modok
    8.) Akuma, Nemesis, Doom
    9.) Sentinal, C.viper, Nemesis
    10.) Nemesis, She-hulk, Chun-li
    11.) Spencer, Nemesis, Nova
    12.) R.R. , Spiderman, Nemesis
    I have many questions to ask, but i am just going to ask 3 basic questions right now.
    1. When is the best to do Nemesis DpHc?
    2. Does Nemesis make a better Anchor or point character?
    3. How does one connect Nemesis Tiger-Knee Motion OTG in a combo.

    Thanks for reading :D
    Main Teams:
    1. Trish, Chris, Morrigan
    2. Doom, Magneto, Dormammu
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,891
    I have alot of question for nemesis players and i was going to make a nemesis Q & A thread, but choose not to. Anyways i have 12 teams with nemesis on it, and i wanted input from the community on my teams :3
    1.) Tron, Haggar, Nemesis
    2.) Nemesis, Vergil, Wesker
    3.) Phoenix Wright, Nemesis, Frank
    4.) FireBrand, Felicia, Nemesis
    5.) Nemesis, Trish, Joe
    6.) Arthur, Ryu, Nemesis
    7.) Nemesis, Capt. America, Modok
    8.) Akuma, Nemesis, Doom
    9.) Sentinal, C.viper, Nemesis
    10.) Nemesis, She-hulk, Chun-li
    11.) Spencer, Nemesis, Nova
    12.) R.R. , Spiderman, Nemesis
    I have many questions to ask, but i am just going to ask 3 basic questions right now.
    1. When is the best to do Nemesis DpHc?
    2. Does Nemesis make a better Anchor or point character?
    3. How does one connect Nemesis Tiger-Knee Motion OTG in a combo.

    Thanks for reading :D

    I assume DPHC is his Biohazard Rush, the punching super. The only good time to use it is either if A) you can land it during combos, or B) if you have a grab super to tag out to. It' so unsafe and Rocket Hyper is usually much more applicable in a later combo and frankly, it's a much better combo ender for it's DHC purposes in most cases.

    Yeah...ummm...despite some recent interests in anchor Nemesis, you're gonna want to put him on first or second. Go back a few pages to learn more, but he doesn't get a significant speed boost in X-Factor, gets lamed out super hard, can't chase down people well, and the damage boost in X-Factor isn't that big either as his resets can usually get the kill as needed without it. Far as I'm concerned, he's still horrid on anchor. For a good team composition guide with him on point, I recommend reading this post I made a while ago: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/nem-assists-the-nemesis-teambuilding-assists-thread.148821/page-6#post-6351653

    If you mean as a combo ender, you're in perfect range to do so after smacking them down after an air combo in mid screen. If you want to extend the combo with it.......don't. It's not worth the effort. The rocket shoots them back too far and Nemesis recovers too slow. Only select assist can nail combos afterwards, but in order to do that, it needs to be a straight LMHSMMHS combo and it does less damage and scales more. Stick with combos that wind up using both QCF+L and DP+M.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • motion51motion51 Joined: Posts: 387
    woot woot! team # 11 is my team yay!!!

    check out my posts scatter about these forums for some educational nonsense...this team works!
  • DazedDazed Two Frame Kill Joined: Posts: 597
    If you want to extend the combo with it.......don't. It's not worth the effort. The rocket shoots them back too far and Nemesis recovers too slow. Only select assist can nail combos afterwards, but in order to do that, it needs to be a straight LMHSMMHS combo and it does less damage and scales more. Stick with combos that wind up using both QCF+L and DP+M.

    you do know of course that solo rocket relaunch is somewhat feasible for combos started in the corner.

    (actually, IDK if there's anything else he can do to get over 670k meter neutral off a corner tentacle slam; ignoring hard tag exploit to Hulk for 1mil+ met positive)
    GT: Paralyzed Fist PSN: Togamera
    YT
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,891
    you do know of course that solo rocket relaunch is somewhat feasible for combos started in the corner.

    (actually, IDK if there's anything else he can do to get over 670k meter neutral off a corner tentacle slam; ignoring hard tag exploit to Hulk for 1mil+ met positive)

    Of course I do, but it's often has very specific setups, spacing, and timing, especially with assists involved. I tend to only deal with generals and frankly, I rarely find combos involving an OTG Rocket as an extensive extended combo to be worth it, so I left it out
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • Rugerrell2369Rugerrell2369 Joined: Posts: 184
    alright, i got back into this game since everyone i chill with and around my area plays this. my team consist of logan, nemesis and albert. usually i switch nemesis on point depending on the team im fighting. i just wanna know some tips to improve my team. i only know one reset which smart players that i play alot are starting to pick up on it so i can only do it once and a while. i know there are more but ill look in the combo thread or in earlier stuff here to see if its anything. i use the nemesis punch and rocket, logan's b.slash and albert's good old gun pop as my assist. i try to use the slash and keep em lock down so i can command grab afterwards and do something crazy. albert isnt too useful besides otg in combos and resets. any help would be great to improve my team
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    alright, i got back into this game since everyone i chill with and around my area plays this. my team consist of logan, nemesis and albert. usually i switch nemesis on point depending on the team im fighting. i just wanna know some tips to improve my team. i only know one reset which smart players that i play alot are starting to pick up on it so i can only do it once and a while. i know there are more but ill look in the combo thread or in earlier stuff here to see if its anything. i use the nemesis punch and rocket, logan's b.slash and albert's good old gun pop as my assist. i try to use the slash and keep em lock down so i can command grab afterwards and do something crazy. albert isnt too useful besides otg in combos and resets. any help would be great to improve my team
    I know nothing of Wolvy play, but that team sounds pretty solid. My concern would be zoners, because no one has many countermeasures for that. I'd say start Wolvy on zoners if anything. But you probly already got that down. Careful about Dormammu against that team. Get him in a reset and he's gone, but Dorm's good at locking down at a distance and his anti-air cr.M hits a lot of good jumping moves. Still, I'm not sure how to face that matchup with Nem. I usually just try to catch them incoming, or I use X-23.

    And, there is one more use for Wesker's assist, in any rate. If someone's holding back, and blocking Nem's slow mixups, call Wesker while keeping them still with jumping M, and you can get a little unblockable action.

    And Nemesis resets, even if people know how to avoid it, are still pretty airtight depending on the timing (for example, the clothesline reset, jab off a clothesline and Medium tentacle slam, hits all the techs, but only depending on the timing of when you land the jab). People who know the matchup but don't play the character too much always try to tech forward. Make them pay for that :D.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • Rugerrell2369Rugerrell2369 Joined: Posts: 184
    I know nothing of Wolvy play, but that team sounds pretty solid. My concern would be zoners, because no one has many countermeasures for that. I'd say start Wolvy on zoners if anything. But you probly already got that down. Careful about Dormammu against that team. Get him in a reset and he's gone, but Dorm's good at locking down at a distance and his anti-air cr.M hits a lot of good jumping moves. Still, I'm not sure how to face that matchup with Nem. I usually just try to catch them incoming, or I use X-23.

    And, there is one more use for Wesker's assist, in any rate. If someone's holding back, and blocking Nem's slow mixups, call Wesker while keeping them still with jumping M, and you can get a little unblockable action.

    And Nemesis resets, even if people know how to avoid it, are still pretty airtight depending on the timing (for example, the clothesline reset, jab off a clothesline and Medium tentacle slam, hits all the techs, but only depending on the timing of when you land the jab). People who know the matchup but don't play the character too much always try to tech forward. Make them pay for that :D.

    thanks for the tips. ima have to get the reset down to a science and ill just say fuck it and get people with it. if they cant escape it (besides players with air dash) i should go for the kill
  • Mayu808Mayu808 Joined: Posts: 50
    So I've tried a couple teams before but I think I got my nem team now. Nemesis-rocket slam/ hawkeye-greyhound(?) arrows/ strider vajra. I use nem on point and keepaway like hell, hawkeye is for added projectile, and strider stops jump-ins and helps beat out other projectile characters. Nem can't do much after the hard knockdown from vajra, but the rockets hyper does pretty good damage and is an easy way to dhc into both strider and hawkeye, though legion pretty much misses all hits but 2-3. All I need to do is work on striders combos and I am good I think.
  • toastedwigztoastedwigz Joined: Posts: 165
    Im trying to hell my friend get into umvc3, and hes grown a liking to nemmy. Whats a good team for nemmy, im looking for assists and characters that are easy to learn, because he aint there tech wise
    [p2w]
    RIP nesn00b
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Im trying to hell my friend get into umvc3, and hes grown a liking to nemmy. Whats a good team for nemmy, im looking for assists and characters that are easy to learn, because he aint there tech wise
    Well, my bro is looking for new characters, and he's not a tech monster either, he barely plays the game. He wanted to pick up Nem, but doesn't lab much at all, so I was thinking about the same thing. My only problem figuring out characters for him is he likes odd movement, and none of the characters he's good with I would consider easy (cept for Dark Wesker, which he is actually damned good with). Examples: Skrull, Jill, and his best character is Dormammu. I did not see that coming.

    But for Nem, OTG assist makes everything easier. Go Wesker if you want some easier stuff, plus fantastic reset opportunities once he gets used to the two. I'd say maybe Sent to make Nemmy's approach easier, but I'm not great at moving around with sentinel, so I wouldn't entirely call him easy, but Sent's certainly not too technical either. Maybe Felicia either second or last, probably with the otg, but the low is fantastic as well, but not everyone likes how she works. Another good character is Cap, who can do some easy easy stuff with otg shield and Nem's slammy assist. But since Cap has the assist usefulness/DHC safeness of a pile of crap, you may wanna put Nem second. Less optimal, but those are two characters who can easily rack out damage. You could conceivably put Cap in slot 2, simply because of a damaging DHC, but I like the other order. I'd say Frank's an easyish character, but a lot of times the leveling setups are a bit more technically demanding, so entertain that idea at your own risk. Hulk's always a fun choice, and works amazingly with Nemesis, and I'd say he's one of the easy to pick up, hard to master kinda characters.

    That's all I got for now. I don;t like the idea of making a team not knowing who he likes, so I'mma just leave it at a suggestion list for characters, and your friend chooses who he's comfortable with.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • Mayu808Mayu808 Joined: Posts: 50
    So for the two other posts, I think ryu is pretty good to pick up. Pretty easy combos with ok damage and his assist is pretty good. Akuma is th better choice but is probably a little harder since his more damaging combos take some skill, though you should work on execution if you plan to play this game. So nem/ryu/akuma I guess? Or throw in sentinel since he's pretty easy like ryu. So then it'd be nem/ryu/sent. That seems simple enough. Oh, and because I read people's sigs, duke, I think ur team should be nem/hawk/x-23, because x-23 is a godlike comback character with dirt nap. I mean, if hawkeye is a better lvl3 x-factor clutch then cool, but hey, try it out?
  • insaneleeinsanelee duyw0rk Joined: Posts: 1,007
    hard tag exploit with hulk? do tell <3
    [14:38] <@Chang>; pz john
    [14:38] <@Chang>; hes pretty trustworthy

    .. .
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Oh, and because I read people's sigs, duke, I think ur team should be nem/hawk/x-23, because x-23 is a godlike comback character with dirt nap. I mean, if hawkeye is a better lvl3 x-factor clutch then cool, but hey, try it out?

    It was for a while. I switch it up, but went with this layout. For a lot of reasons.

    One of the things that X-23 is less known for is her sick loops in level 2 X-factor, which I think puts her above level 2 X-factor Wesker, but I'm kind-of odd in that opinion. I pop it, I kill a character. And second I feel deals with more incoming than anchor, unless I'm losing, and I'd prefer to think I have momentum.

    I also think X-23 is way better at opening people up when she has an assist for crossing up. Like people using lvl2 Wesky with Drones instead of level 3 Wesky, and a lot of folks opt for it.

    Other reasons, I have a TAC thing from Nem to X-23 that has bitchy timing for the end of it, but can get up to absurd damage, like, 0-meter 7ks, with X-23. And I have no damage with her regularly, only like 7k tops, because I can't do CS loops, sad face. And X-23 has a relaunch with Nem's clothesline rocket I like using. That assist lets her convert instant kill combos off a dirt nap, and around 5.5-6k off an air throw, and any of those also result in death by X-factor level 1, if I do it right, which occasionally I do not, but that's my fingers' fault.

    And her DHC is significantly more damaging than hawkeye, letting me not need a reset with Nem to kill a character weaker than Ryu, probly. Rage Trigger sets them up for an air throw possibility, her DP super (which I can't remember the name of) does more damage and gives me the frames I need to catch them on wakeup with, usually, a MH mirage cancel MH, mirage medium + hawkeye, which I never do right online.

    Also, Hawkeye is ass with the X-23 assist. Surprisingly, he gets great mileage out of Nem's clothesline rocket, but yeah, I also like throwing arrows at the speed of light. AND for technical reasons, I cannot do the three possible dead arrow reps on ground opponents without X-factor, and I don't want to rely on them being airborne. Usually I pop X-factor before Hawkeye even shows up, which is my itchy trigger finger, I guess.

    I love switching up the order. Because I wanted the Hawkeye experience, I played Hawkeye/Nem/X-23 for a while, and my main order used to be Nem/Hawk/X-23, but I switched it a while back.

    EDIT: On that note, I also gotta alter my sig, I am trying to make a team with Modok in second, and I'm working out what would be good for it. I'm thinking Trish/Dorm, Modok, Task, though dorm may get switched with Modok if I like him more than Trish. And I've given up on Ryu, my friend mains him and can move a lot beterr than I can. Also, he gets smacked with rockets a lot.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • TheCapeTheCape Joined: Posts: 944
    For anyone running Nemesis to Frank I finally figured out that combo I was trying to do with BHR into Shopping Cart for a free level 4 for Frank off a command grab with Nemesis. It mostly depends on who the third character is, but if someone wants to see it with their team setup I can likely try to make a video for it.
    If its not fun, I will just stop playing it.
  • FuzzykipsFuzzykips @FizzyKups Joined: Posts: 403
    I have a LOT of trouble doing BHR into Shopping Cart, mostly due to timing issues I have. Maybe I just need to practice for it?
    But anyway, would you mind doing it for my team? Nemmy/Frank/Dorm
    GT: FizzyKups
    UMvC3: Spencer/Dante/Frank West
    AE: Juri/Guile/Viper
  • TheCapeTheCape Joined: Posts: 944
    Which assists do you use? I might have to get a bit creative with that one.
    If its not fun, I will just stop playing it.
  • FuzzykipsFuzzykips @FizzyKups Joined: Posts: 403
    The assists I use are Launcher Slam, Shopping Cart and Dark Hole.
    GT: FizzyKups
    UMvC3: Spencer/Dante/Frank West
    AE: Juri/Guile/Viper
  • FuzzykipsFuzzykips @FizzyKups Joined: Posts: 403
    Also, I don't know if anybody has discovered this yet, but...

    If you're running Nemesis/Morrigan with Soul Fist assist, there's a really easy way to reset. Start with a normal Tentacle Slam, launch, do MMH into DR, st. H into Clothesline Rocket L, MAKE SURE YOU dash under the enemy so that when you relaunch you're hitting them towards the center of the screen. Off the wallbounce, go st. S while simultaneously calling Soul Fist. Quickly do the MMHS since hitstun decay is really tight by this point. When you launch them back down Nemesis should knock the enemy right into the Soul Fist, immediately causing them to flip out, and if you IMMEDIATELY call Tentacle Slam M, it should catch them. The window is really tight from what I've seen, and I think it MAY be inescapable if you can time it right.

    Of course, off the Tentacle Slam reset you could just do it again. I really wish I had a camera or something to record it. I'd also be worried about the synergy between Zombie and Succubus. The only thing I can really see being neat about it is that Bioweapon Assault -> Astral Vision gives you time to fire a Soul Drain and fly cancel into Soul Fist H.
    GT: FizzyKups
    UMvC3: Spencer/Dante/Frank West
    AE: Juri/Guile/Viper
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    Guys, I need people's advice on a topic. I might be in the mood for changing my main team. I'm in a make-new-teams kinda phase, but I've never changed my mains since forever ago. I realized recently that I can kill most characters by popping X-factor level 1, as well as the common lvl 2 with X-23 (lvl 1 requires the Nemesis assist, which isn't too much of a problem), and that means that if I lock them down and have enough bar by the second character kill, I can kill the third for free with lvl 3. Obviously, I like the prospects of this idea. But, really, the only assist I can think of that is foolproof is Dante's Jam Session or Skrull's Tenderizer. So, that would require me abandoning my beloved Hawkeye anchor, who has done me very well in the past.

    Skrull I ruled out because it gives Nemesis absolutely no ability at range. I'll be zoned, simple enough, and I like having at least projectile equality to my opponent's point/assist layout. And Tenderizer is not as useful outside of incoming. I love Skrull on anchor, though, but this team doesn't normally intend to have the anchor lvl 3 X-factor unless shit goes wrong. So, no to Skrull.

    The problem is I've never played Dante a moment of my life, and I'm finally feeling very confident about my Hawkeye. Dante assist seems so great for X-23, even better than Hawkeye (which I didn't think was possible). But the deciding factor is how well Jam Session helps Nemesis in comparison to Triple Arrow. It seems to do quite well at zoning and lockdown, but arrows are so good for Nemesis, it's tough to decide.

    So, is it worth learning the character, or would I be diminishing Nemesis' abilities with that assist, in comparison to what I find is an already balanced team?
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • HeavyweightHeavyweight Joined: Posts: 186
    How do people feel about Nemesis/Dante (Jam Session) in terms of synergy and power?
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,891
    How do people feel about Nemesis/Dante (Jam Session) in terms of synergy and power?
    If you intend to use Dante, sure, but I can't see that being THAT that potent for a few reasons.

    1) Nemesis's air control is pretty good and Dante's Captain Commando assist isn't as needed as is on others
    2) Jam Session on hit causes a crap ton of damage scaling, which Nemesis no like. Depending on angle, a reset could possibly be done, but I expect there are a bunch of variables to consider there.
    3) As I recall, Jam session kicks people out more than keep them in on block, even if they are stuck in place for a bit.
    4) Million Dollars isn't a bad DHC by any means, but I do feel as though there's better out there, like Gamma Crush, Inferno, Finger Lazers, etc
    5) Nemesis combos often use a ground bounce, which I know Dante's tend to use up in combos, so DHC into Devil Trigger seems kinda meh to me.

    Short story: Dante's good, but not optimal.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • HeavyweightHeavyweight Joined: Posts: 186
    Makes sense. Thanks for the second opinion.
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    If you intend to use Dante, sure, but I can't see that being THAT that potent for a few reasons.

    1) Nemesis's air control is pretty good and Dante's Captain Commando assist isn't as needed as is on others
    2) Jam Session on hit causes a crap ton of damage scaling, which Nemesis no like. Depending on angle, a reset could possibly be done, but I expect there are a bunch of variables to consider there.
    3) As I recall, Jam session kicks people out more than keep them in on block, even if they are stuck in place for a bit.
    4) Million Dollars isn't a bad DHC by any means, but I do feel as though there's better out there, like Gamma Crush, Inferno, Finger Lazers, etc
    5) Nemesis combos often use a ground bounce, which I know Dante's tend to use up in combos, so DHC into Devil Trigger seems kinda meh to me.

    Short story: Dante's good, but not optimal.

    Tried the assist in a few matches, I found something similar. I can't do command throw traps as well as I thought. The DHC kicks the crap outta Hawkeye's gimlet, though, I can even go devil trigger and followup with some combos, ending in Million Dollars for significantly more damage at the expenditure of meter, but scaling more than makes up for that, in the bad way. Though I have to be careful about ground bounces in the dante stuff, as you also pointed out.

    Another point, I can do a DHC Devil Trigger followup okay, but I'm simply bad with Dante. He's not someone to just "pick up", and my neutral game is either scrubby or nonexistent. Not fun for an anchor, who needs better reaction time than most, because he moves faster and has no assist to keep moves as safe.

    So yeah, idea crushed, I may have to forego the Godly X-23 killtwocharacters and keep to my standard Hawkeye anchor.

    I was also considering Taskmaster anchor, but my only concern is that the assist is slower, and makes Nemesis lose a teeny bit of ranged clout, but the DHC is fsr better, and Tasky likes X-23's assist more, in case the order gets funky (snapbacks and such).
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • omaoma www.facebook.com/fgcbergen Joined: Posts: 81
    My team has Frank West and Phoenix Wright joining Nemesis. But what assists to use? I am assuming that Shopping Cart is a must, and having PW send his lowhittingotg-dog out could help with some unblockable setups from j.m with Nemesis?

    I use the wallbounce assist with nemesis to help relaunch with frank west and get him to an easy lv 3, but Nemesis usually gets hit by something and juggeled if i just throw it out there. Outside of comboes it doesnt seem too effective :/ What is the best assist Nemesis has?
    Fighting games i Bergen? Sjekk ut www.facebook.com/Fgcbergen ! :D Ranbats hver måned
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,891
    My team has Frank West and Phoenix Wright joining Nemesis. But what assists to use? I am assuming that Shopping Cart is a must, and having PW send his lowhittingotg-dog out could help with some unblockable setups from j.m with Nemesis?

    I use the wallbounce assist with nemesis to help relaunch with frank west and get him to an easy lv 3, but Nemesis usually gets hit by something and juggeled if i just throw it out there. Outside of comboes it doesnt seem too effective :/ What is the best assist Nemesis has?

    If you're going for leveling up Frank, wall bounce is the way to go. Mostly because all of Nemesis's assists are pretty lame and only good for combo extension, with a LVL1 frank only needing a wall bounce.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DukeofFortuneManDukeofFortuneMan I still like Nemesis... Joined: Posts: 1,278
    My team has Frank West and Phoenix Wright joining Nemesis. But what assists to use? I am assuming that Shopping Cart is a must, and having PW send his lowhittingotg-dog out could help with some unblockable setups from j.m with Nemesis?

    I use the wallbounce assist with nemesis to help relaunch with frank west and get him to an easy lv 3, but Nemesis usually gets hit by something and juggeled if i just throw it out there. Outside of comboes it doesnt seem too effective :/ What is the best assist Nemesis has?

    Yeah, what Gil said, go wallbounce, even though it isn't great. The one thing I have found with the wallbounce assist is X-23 using it and her command dash for a sick incoming setup, but aside from relaunching, it isn't good on most characters for a straight approach. That said...

    You can also use Launcher Slam if you commonly TAC to Frank, and the hitbox of launcher slam is better for pushing people to the ground on incoming. So, there is still some usability in the other assist. Rocket assist I would not recommend unless you have specific badass combos with it. I'm curious which assist, ground bounce or wall bounce, is better for PW combos, but I can't play the good lawyer for crap, so that's your call.

    Also, quick note, I have always wanted to see a good team involving both Frank and PW, so your team sounds badass. I hope to see that tech sometime.
    UMVC3: I know a ton of characters, not all of them great, but for now focusing on Deadpool/Vergil/Shuma, Deadpool/Taskmaster/Hawkeye, and Taskmaster/Vergil/Hawkeye MK9: Freddy Krueger, Stryker, Sektor ; Skullgirls: Cerebella/Filia for life (<3) ; Playstation Allstars: Ratchet ; Injustice: Zombie, Teen Titans

    Youtube channel: Derpfighter6
    Add me if you want to play some Marvel, GAU, Skullgirls or PSAS, I'm TiberiusF on PSN
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Factual Joined: Posts: 9,891
    Ok guys, I'm thinking of dropping Strider as I just don't find him fun anymore. That leaves me with only Nemesis and Doctor Doom. Can anyone help me out here for a good character to use?
    NNID: a2handedmonk
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