Welcome to the official project thread for 'Item Standard Play
This is a moderator-approved thread. This is the v2.0 thread; the old v1.0 thread is archived at the following thread
REALLY IMPORTANT NOTICE:
GET ALL CURRENT TEST SPAWN POINT PACS AT THIS DL LINK!
It is now possible to (kind of) control spawn points of items! Allow me to explain. Early in this thread, there was a big debate over whether Brawl had a hard-coded list of spawn points for items on each stage, or if the game randomly/procedurally determined where an item will spawn. I'm happy to report that the answer is...
See, in each stage PAC file, there is a section called ModelData, and nested deep within this file is a list of bones for each stage, some of which are assigned to item spawns. Using the positions of these bones (stored in (X, Y, Z) format under "Translation"), we can create boxes of areas where the game will allow items to spawn, at which point the game will randomly select a point inside this valid area to spawn items.
This is VERY important. This means that, with hacking, we can find the most balanced and fair areas to spawn items on each stage and restrict item spawns to only those areas!
In order to test this, anyone with Homebrew can download my hacked test PAC for Final Destination
. This file restricts item spawns to the diamond in the middle of FD, high above
the respawn platforms. Go ahead; turn Gooey Bombs on and see if any spawn on top of your Smash attacks now! The added height means you can react to item spawns, and the small central spawn area means that stage control is actually TOTALLY important (plus, the time it takes to go get an item and return to edgeguard means players recovering have a fairer time).
Test this out, and maybe we can hack all the spawn points to be fair and balanced on each stage!
IMPORTANT NOTICE 2:
For a little while, I have been working on a side-project in my spare time for fun, but it's turned into something I think TO's would actually like. So, I'm going ahead and releasing what I'm tentatively calling a "TO Tools Pack." The pack includes a custom-built and large-monitor/projector optimized Powerpoint that can be edited and tweaked from my template to allow tournament rules to be continuously and efficiently circulated to a large group of players, something every TO I'm sure will appreciate. Also included is a picture pack that was designed to be used either separately or (optimally) in conjunction with the powerpoint. The included picture pack allows a TO to make his stage (or item, for ISP) listing and custom build a picture of a Neutral/Counterpick/Banned color-coded stage/item select screen that allows players to quickly identify tournament-legal stages/items. What's better is that it's all easy to use (I use it with MS Paint) and it allows you to use ANY combination of stages/items and stages of legality.
You can grab the .rar, complete with Readme files, at the following link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TY9L4UGM
Click here to visit Jack's other thread where he discusses the ruleset he has created to accompany this item list.
This is the original SWF thread where ISP all started! Head inside to see the beginning of 4 years of competitive Brawl item play.
[NOTE: This thread concerns offical rulesets and playstyle discussion for the creation of a unified approved item listing for item-based tournament play. This thread is NOT
*discussion of whether items (in general) are tournament viable
*discussion concerning the 'randomness' of items
*trying to replace any form or facet of current, established tournament play
All of the above will not be tolerated. If you are looking to discuss whether items should be allowed in tournaments, you have come to the wrong place.]
This mission of the 'Item Standard Play' project is :
A ) To experiment to find a unified list of items that are 'approved' for item-based tournament play, as well as 'approved' playstyles and rulesets for the creation of item-based tournaments. As in any tournament format, final discretion is always in the hands of the tournament organizer
B ) To create a scene that can/will act as a stepping stone for the introduction of casual players into the traditional tournament scene without forcing them to 'abandon' all of the conventions of casual play.
C ) To create a scene that current tournament players can go to, if they so choose, that has an alternate style of play than what they are used to.
D ) To create a unified place that tournament organizers can come to discuss, create, and advertise item-based tournament events.
This thread's purpose is to catalog all of the information, theoretical and real-world, concerning formalized competitive item play. Just like how tier lists and rulesets go through iterations, ISP is ever-evolving as well. New advancements in Brawl's metagame can cause future changes to ISP rulesets; nothing in this thread is "set in stone". This means that we would hope that, although we currently have a formalized (and widely accepted) ruleset, more testing must always be done.
In order to be as open-minded and thorough as possible, all items must be tested in a range of various circumstances (1v1, 2v2, and FFA; all of which Online and Offline). Prior knowledge from Melee must, for the sake of accuracy and true balance, must be discarded, especially in light of the inclusion of a new physics engine (Havok). To accomplish this, we ask that those who would like to contribute to the project post in this thread details pertaining to item experimentation; the results of numerous experiments will ultimately determine future versions of our final item list.
[NOTE: Simply stating that Item A is broken is not enough; sufficient testing must occur.]
We ask that your post include:
*Number of rounds (the more rounds played, the more accuracy; note that each round must be identical, i.e., the same players, the same items, the same stage, the same characters, etc.)
*Stage played on
*Rules of match (Time/amount, stock/amount, special rules, etc.)
*Number of wins for each player/character
*Number of kills for each player/character
*Any other information you deem important
Also, if possible, note the relative skill of all players; for instance, if P1 is much more skilled than P2 and P3, make note.
If you have any questions/concerns/requests for the project, please contact me (JackKieser) either by PM or by AIM. Your support and encouragement is appreciated.
OFFICIAL RULESET INFORMATION:
As of 10/26/09 at 11:45 PM:
Thanks to the testing, balancing, research, and discussion of many, many people, we finally have a draft for a balanced and fair item listing, as well as a ruleset for use in tournaments. Speaking for everyone a part of the ‘ISP’ project, we can’t thank everyone enough for their help and support; this would have never happened if the community around SWF hadn’t put (at least some) of their support behind it. Special thanks go out to those who don’t even agree with competitive item play, but still discussed and debated with us to work towards a consensus.
Here is the result of nearly two months of extensive testing, balancing, and discussion:
(Sandbag) (Food) (Warp Star) (Bunny Hood) (Beam Sword) (Lip’s Stick) (Star Rod) (Super Scope) (Fire Flower) (Motion Sensor Bomb) (Freezie) (Smoke Ball) (Pitfall) (Mr. Saturn) (Banana Peel) (Franklin Badge) (Screw Attack)
(Assist Trophy) (Dragoon) (Metal Box) (Home-Run Bat) (Hammer) (Ray Gun) (Cracker Launcher) (Gooey Bomb) (Hothead) (Unira)
(Smash Ball) (Pokeball) (Containers) (Blast Box) (Maxim Tomato) (Heart Container) (Super Mushroom) (Poison Mushroom) (Starman) (Superspicy Curry) (Lightning) (Fan) (Golden Hammer) (Bob-Omb) (Smart Bomb) (Deku Nut) (Green Shell) (Bumper) (Soccer Ball) (Spring)
CHANGES FOR 2v2 PLAY:
Item Spawn Rate – Changed to ‘Medium’
– Moved to Counterpick
– Moved to Counterpick
– Moved to Neutral
GENERAL GAMEPLAY RULES:
1. 3 Stocks
2. 8 Minute Time Limit
3. Items set to "Low"
4. Pause set to "Off"
5. All infinites and chain grabs are legal.
6. The act of stalling is banned: stalling is intentionally making the game unplayable: Such as becoming invisible, continuing infinites, chain grabs, or uninterruptible moves past 300%, and reaching a position that your opponent can never reach you.
7. Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.
8. The winner will be declared by what the game says in all situations, except for when players are presented with sudden death:
o In the event of a match going to time, the winner will be determined by who has less percent (stock difference still takes priority but will be shown in the results screen).
o If the match ends with both players dying at the same time (either coincidentally or via suicide move) or if time ran out with both players at equal percent, a one stock three minute rematch will be played on the same stage.
MODIFIED RULES FOR DOUBLES:
1. Team Attack set to "On"
2. Life stealing is allowed.
3. In the event of a game going to time, if both teams have an equal amount of combined stocks, then whichever team has a lower combined percent is declared the winner.
4. If a player is using the character Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, or Sonic, either team may request that team colors be changed to make it easier to tell the difference between team players.
1. Player Priority is determined if it cannot be agreed on. (See below for details)
2. Each Team selects one controller port to use for each Player.
3. Each Team selects one character for each Player. A double blind pick may be called by any player.
4. The first game is played on a Stage selected from the Starter Stage List either by mutual consent or through the Stage Striking Method. The order of stage striking will be 2-3-1 (Team 1 strikes two stages, followed by Team 2 striking three stages, with Team 1 then striking one of the two remaining stages).
5. The first match is played.
6. The team that lost the previous match may opt to re-pick controller ports (with themselves picking first).
7. The Team that won the previous match may announce one "Stage Ban" and/or one “Item Ban” if they have not already done so in this set.
8. The Team that lost the previous match announces the stage for the next match from either the Starter or the Counterpick Stage List. Any Stage named as a "Stage Ban" by the either Team may not be selected. No Stage may be used by a Team that has already won on that Stage in this set.
9. The Team that won the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
10. The Team that lost the previous match chooses one character for each Player.
11. The Team that lost may counterpick any one item from the “Starter” and “Counterpick” item lists not already announced as an “Item Ban” by changing the On/Off status of the item.
12. If the Team that lost chose to counterpick an item, the Team that won may now choose to counterpick any one item not banned.
13. If the Team that won chose to counterpick an item, the Team that lost may now choose to counterpick any one item not banned.
14. The next match is played.
15. Repeat steps 6-15 for all proceeding matches.
Determining Player Priority
If there is a dispute in controller port selection or initiating Stage Strike use the following method:
Teams will use a random method such as Rock-Paper-Scissors, Coin Flip, or Game and Watch Judgment, where the winner selects either first choice in port selection or first choice in stage striking. Whichever team does not receive first choice in port selection will be compensated with first choice in stage striking.
Note: In Doubles, port selection is ordered 1-2-2-1 fashion (with Team-1 having first choice in controller slot select, Team-2 having both second and third choice, and the final slot going to Team-1).
Pokemon Stadium 1
Pokemon Stadium 2
Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)
Yoshi’s Island (Pipes)
Port Town Aero Dive
Any stage not listed above is counted as "BANNED" for the purposes of tournament play.
Any rule-list that closely follows this guideline may include a note in its opening post (suggested beneath the tournaments title in smaller font) that reads "ISP Certified".
ADDED MAY 24th, 2009: Alternate Rulesets
The following rulesets have been suggested for use and tested in a tournament setting.
DugFinn / Houston 2v2 ISP:
(Smash Ball) (Sandbag) (Food) (Warp Star) (Bunny Hood) (Beam Sword) (Lip’s Stick) (Star Rod) (Hammer) (Golden Hammer) (Super Scope) (Fire Flower) (Motion Sensor Bomb) (Freezie) (Smoke Ball) (Pitfall) (Mr. Saturn) (Green Shell) (Banana Peel) (Franklin Badge) (Screw Attack) (Team Healer)
(Assist Trophy) (Dragoon) (Metal Box) (Home-Run Bat) (Ray Gun) (Cracker Launcher) (Gooey Bomb) (Hothead) (Spring) (Unira)
(Pokeball) (Containers) (Blast Box) (Maxim Tomato) (Heart Container) (Super Mushroom) (Poison Mushroom) (Starman) (Superspicy Curry) (Lightning) (Fan) (Bob-Omb) (Smart Bomb) (Deku Nut) (Bumper) (Soccer Ball)
TESTED AT WHOBO: WHOBO Post in this thread.
(PS: DF, if I made any mistakes here, please let me know.)