Hacking the ST rom...

Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD FanaticJoined: Posts: 276
Thanks to felineki's old research on how hitboxes and frame data is stored in the SF2:HF rom (and some stuff i figured by myself) I was able to do some minor hacks to the ST rom, since the format is pretty much the same, but located at different addresses in the rom. I mainly messed with Zangief and Dictator, I changed hitboxes of some moves and changed the startup of others, just for fun. For instance, i gave Zangief his Crouching Fierce from HDR and Dic his devil reverse from HDR. Both working exactly like they are in HDR.

I am able to edit any hitbox and edit most stuff related to frame data, excluding certain stuff like by how much frames Honda travels the screen during his headbutt, for example. I dont have 100% control over the animation data though, for example: if a move has 2 animation frames for startup, both with 3 frames of duration (total of 6 frames of startup), i am not able to make that move have a 1 frame of startup, because that would need me to "delete" an animation frame, which i have no idea how to do, at least for now. The fastest i could make that move is 2 frames of startup, by giving each part 1 frame of duration. I do everything in a hex editor. I am not able to change the damage and stun data yet but i think these will not be hard to discover.

I wont post a download of my hack right now because I dont think its a good idea, its too unfinished and i dont think its a good idea to have several versions of hacked ST on the internet. OSBR is the only one who i sent the hack and he was impressed by it and said that i should post about it here so i am now doing it, almost a month later, cuz i have been real busy.
Here's a video as a proof and to show some of the stuff i changed in action (read the description for the list of changes showed):


I was planning to just give up on the idea of hacking ST because something really pissed me off: when i finally found the location of the throwboxes in the rom, i went ahead and buffed Zangief's Range on his super, which IMO is too bad in ST and should have RH Suplex range. And I was successful in it (as shown in the video), but later i noticed that both Zangief's Super and Sim's Noogie uses the same throwbox... So this means no buffed Super for gief. I'm 100% sure that this is actually a mistake from the programmer. Thanks capcom. In that case i believe i would need to hack the actual code, and i have no idea how to do it. I may discover how to do it, but messing with mame debugger is real boring and im also very lazy for that kind of stuff...

Anyway, I am creating this topic to know if the community is interested in a hack for ST. If people is not interested in it at all then i will just give up on the idea and will not release anything. I dont want to damage the ST revival, if thats actually possible. I dont plan to work on something retarded like a ST rainbow edition though. Only a rebalance hack would be worth IMO. Not saying that a hack would replace original ST, that obviously will never happen and i actually dont want to see something like that happening. ST is immortal. But if the majority of people think its fine then we can do something cool, we (community) can attempt to rebalance this game. I will not be a "Sirlin 2" and dictate what should be done and what shouldnt. I can even do a little tutorial on how to hack ST so i have no control over it. But this will only happen if people here say its not a bad idea.

So... what you people think about this? Should we do this or better not?
I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
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Comments

  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    I dig it.
    :)
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • KyouyaKyouya SSF2T Joined: Posts: 173
    I wish Dictator had that devil reverse and a better jabs in ST, thats my wet dream every night...
    Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Lay - zer
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • complexzcomplexz not so fresh Joined: Posts: 2,561
    would be neat to have a few little things fixed like have honda's super hit properly more frequently or let ken and sagat reversal super.
    "I'm the Anti-Christ. You got me in a vendetta kind of mood, you will tell the angels in heaven that you had never seen pure evil so singularly personified as you did in the face of the man who killed you"

    team wack
    team Interracial hole stretchers
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    wow a wild mexican Brazilian sirlin appeared

    just fix claw, boxer k thx bye
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    lol
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    Hell yes! What can I do to help? (PM if necessary)
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    You already have hdr.....
    I would be interested in a wacky st mod.

    Also, links to info on how to do this? I have a friend who wants to do hyper fighting. I wonder how similar the alpha games are as well, I would love to change some things about alpha 2/3.

    Also top players feel that st is perfect, right?
  • neweggnewegg MVC3? SSF4AE? Joined: Posts: 60
    I don't think ST is perfect neither is HDR.

    You just have to pick the less of the 2 evils (whatever that is).

    Interesting project BTW
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    Interested to see if this goes anywhere.
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    What changes could most people agree with for a test run? Reversal supers for Sim, Ken, and Ngat? Devils reverse from HDR? If someone does this I think buffing is the way to go so no one's character gets nerfed. No input changes. What about any hit of mp or hp dp for Ken knocking down? Fixing Honda's super? I feel like there are a lot of little things that could be changed.

    This couldn't ever replace ST, but it might be something fun to screw around with. First thing that comes to my mind is giving Guile his CPS1 low forward
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Wait, wait, wait, u guys sounds like kids when ask Santa a shit ton of presents, changing anything would be bad, the only thing that would happen is comunity would split (again)

    Anyways, if u guys want changes, I strongly suggest 1 change per character LIMIT, so thing shouldnt get out of hand.

    Also, if I wanted to balance Cammy, I would just give her a faster diagonal Jump ( a copy of Vega's arch and jump speed)

    but think about it, changing ST would be sacrilege...
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • WolmarWolmar Joined: Posts: 184
    Yeah, great stuff. Why not doing sort of a revenge for low tiers. Buff Cammy, Fei, Gief and O blanka to a godmode point, and put max startup possible everywhere on Boxer, Chun and Claw :p
    Against Balrog, it determine the direction Shoryu fist input is difficult. Has been condemned to the left orinput, so right. I try to issue a reversal is born so firmly command you miss wandering.
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    Why go through all that effort when you can just get rid of the damn supers?
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,711
    Wait, wait, wait, u guys sounds like kids when ask Santa a shit ton of presents, changing anything would be bad, the only thing that would happen is comunity would split (again)

    A fun little rom hack is not going to split the community.

    To the OP: I say go for it, it sounds like it'd be fun. Don't let others deter you from it. :)
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    A fun little rom hack is not going to split the community.

    Also, I doubt anyone that would play this (who would hear about it besides those who already love ST) would treat this as a serious alternative to ST. This would just be for funsies
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    Call this game SUPER STREET FIGHTER 2: SUPER TURBO 25TH ANNIVERSARY DUBSTEP REMIX EDITION. *play skrillex*

    Change 1) Remove all supers
    Change 2) Take away O.Gat's cancellable on 2nd hit st.short and st.forward
    Change 3) Nerf Claw
    Change 4) Bring back CPS1 throw, hit, and block stun sounds.
    Change 5) Slightly buff Cammy, Fei, Blanka
    Change 6) Add hurt box on Sim after his super starts up.
    Change 7) Give Sim (and I think Ken?) the ability to reversal super.
    Change 8) Reduce throw damage from Chun's MP throw
  • CUTWESTCUTWEST There is no rivalry. =( Joined: Posts: 1,778
    I like what you've done "SO" far. I have a feeling this is not gonna end well.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    I agree with you cutwest, i do think this will not end well haha. I just couldn't resist to show this to everyone. Now everyone knows that ST is very hackable...

    Anyway, guys, my hacking skills are limited, i have no idea how to allow Gat, Ken and Sim to be able to reversal Super. I also cant change input for specials, that kind of stuff needs to be hacked in the actual code. Maybe if i use the phoenix version which i believe uses uncripted code then i can maybe patch it, but it will be hard to find where the errors are, debugging stuff is a very tedious thing to do. I was hacking other part of the rom, which only has the frame and hitbox data. Unless someone else knows how to do that kind of stuff then i guess it will not be possible or just too hard... I do think that i can fix Honda's Super to hit everytime though, just by messing with hitboxes and frame data.
    I cant remove all supers, and that would be the wrong way to do it, some supers are very easy to fix actually, example: for rog's super i can easily make it have more startup (nerf) and make the 2nd, 3rd and 4th hits faster (buff, impossible to reversal between hits), wouldn't that be perfectly fine? I can make it unsafe on block too, but i dont think thats the right thing to do.
    One change limit per character? Why change it then? One change per character is not enough at all.
    The right way to do this would be to nerf the top tiers, buff the low tiers, and keep the mid tiers without changing much. You cant have the Sirlin mentality to "keep the top tiers still top tiers" or unchanged. They are the main balance problem and you want to keep them unchanged?? Can you imagine how much buffs Cammy would need to receive to be able to have at least a 4-6 match against O.Gat? In consequence she would destroy a lot of other characters... I say the same for N.Gat vs Sim.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Hu84E.jpg
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • JED07JED07 Sleeping on the floor with the Rats Joined: Posts: 650
    Why go through all that effort when you can just get rid of the damn supers?

    This times 9000.

    I could go on about other stuff but this one in particular, even after all these years is still the number one issue.

    Supers are stupid nerd ejaculations.

    GET. RID. OF. THEM. ALL.
    Will puke for ST.
  • KyouyaKyouya SSF2T Joined: Posts: 173
    This times 9000.

    I could go on about other stuff but this one in particular, even after all these years is still the number one issue.

    Supers are stupid nerd ejaculations.

    GET. RID. OF. THEM. ALL.
    Why don't just play HF or SSF2 instead? Then you can play o.gat and o.ken all day long.

    At first it seemed like a good idea, but i'm not so sure now...

    thread_direction_2.gif
    Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    This times 9000.

    I could go on about other stuff but this one in particular, even after all these years is still the number one issue.

    Supers are stupid nerd ejaculations.

    GET. RID. OF. THEM. ALL.

    Hey, I love my nerdjaculations. Leave them be =p

    blowing a fb -> super -> upkicks on a lariating gief is the best feeling ever.

    I totally see where you're coming from though
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Give old characters throw techs?

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    Give old characters throw techs?

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2


    ugh, old gat being able to tech throw...
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    Why don't just play HF or SSF2 instead? Then you can play o.gat and o.ken all day long.

    At first it seemed like a good idea, but i'm not so sure now...

    Well, it's just a fun project. I don't think anyone's going to see this as the next patch to ST that will be played at tourneys....unless it's just for side tourneys.

    I think a lot of people like the new tools that some characters received (i.e. Ryu) and want to be able to utilize them. It'd be pretty awesome to play a version of ST where there are no supers, and everyone can tech throws. It makes it so that throws aren't as powerful as they used to be in CPS1, while making it so that nobody has a comeback super to rely on. It'd be fun.
    ugh, old gat being able to tech throw...

    Just nerf his st.short cancels and give him N.Sagat's fireball. That'd be pretty fair without neutering the shit out of him.
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    ugh, old gat being able to tech throw...

    Ok, ill change that, let o fei be able to tech throws.

    :)

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Can you imagine how much buffs Cammy would need to receive to be able to have at least a 4-6 match against O.Gat?
    Cammy just needs 1 buff, just give her the same diagonal jump as Vega( the claw) has, the issue about Cammy is she is literally floating when jumps in, so Sagat can deep uppercut her every time, or sweep her from very far.
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Hu84E.jpg
    For the trained eye, something about this picture tells me its photoshoped...
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • CUTWESTCUTWEST There is no rivalry. =( Joined: Posts: 1,778



    Just nerf his st.short cancels and give him N.Sagat's fireball. That'd be pretty fair without neutering the shit out of him.

    2uzflli.png
  • WolmarWolmar Joined: Posts: 184
    Change 4) Bring back CPS1 throw, hit, and block stun sounds.
    Oh, that's just the best idea ever. Bring back those CPS1 mofos sounds, touch nothing else, and you'll got the best game ever...
    Against Balrog, it determine the direction Shoryu fist input is difficult. Has been condemned to the left orinput, so right. I try to issue a reversal is born so firmly command you miss wandering.
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    Oh, that's just the best idea ever. Bring back those CPS1 mofos sounds, touch nothing else, and you'll got the best game ever...
    Maybe also give ST the CPS1 portraits.

    I think this could honestly be fun, and again, no one will look at this to replace ST
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    It would be awesome if there was a way to develop a broad dip switch menu.



    4 options for throws: default is as in st (old characters can't tech; new characters can tech all), hyper/ae style (old/classic throws can't be teched; new characters can tech only new character throws), all throws techable, no throws techable

    Announcer style (CPS1/CPS2)

    Language audio options (mostly for Cammy and DeeJay)

    CPS1 hit/block/throw sounds

    Kara cancel for faster special move recoveries on/off

    Supers on/off

    Wall bounce on/off



    And so on.



    There have been scores of ideas pitched over in the HDR forum. Not that all of them are gold, but many are just basic hitbox changes, and make a lot of sense.

    EDIT: Pasky posted much more information about specifics that would probably help in his HUD thread.
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    Have you guys seen those horror movies where scienists create genetically modified birds/worms/ corpses/ gerbils/ or whatever. Only to have them escape and fuck the living shit out of the surrounding community...... Just saying.

    IMVHO, you all need to tread lightly, if you want to save what's left of ST.
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    Maybe also give ST the CPS1 portraits.

    I think this could honestly be fun, and again, no one will look at this to replace ST

    Good idea, except don't use Guile's WW portrait. He looked like has a botched nose job in that one. CE/HF Guile portrait is best. But everyone else, yes, use the CE/HF faces.
    Have you guys seen those horror movies where scienists create genetically modified birds/worms/ corpses/ gerbils/ or whatever. Only them escape and fuck the living shit out of the surrounding community...... Just saying.

    IMVHO, you all need to tread lightly, if you want to save what's left of ST.

    I think it's just for fun. I don't think anybody is seriously going to adopt this as the future of ST. It's basically our ideas of what ST Rainbow-Edition would look like....or born2spd edition, or whatever.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    lol fatboy, I hear you. So long as there are people who play ST like we are now, there's nothing to worry about.
  • afro legendsafro legends Pugilist Specialist Joined: Posts: 256
    Can you give rog the ability to do tap through fbs like hf...i think that would be sick
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    lol fatboy, I hear you. So long as there are people who play ST like we are now, there's nothing to worry about.
    I would enjoy to play ST even if I was 80 yrs old, hopefully most of us can make it until that age
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Here's a video as a proof and to show some of the stuff i changed in action (read the description for the list of changes showed):


    I was planning to just give up on the idea of hacking ST because something really pissed me off: when i finally found the location of the throwboxes in the rom, i went ahead and buffed Zangief's Range on his super, which IMO is too bad in ST and should have RH Suplex range. And I was successful in it (as shown in the video), but later i noticed that both Zangief's Super and Sim's Noogie uses the same throwbox... So this means no buffed Super for gief. I'm 100% sure that this is actually a mistake from the programmer. Thanks capcom. In that case i believe i would need to hack the actual code, and i have no idea how to do it. I may discover how to do it, but messing with mame debugger is real boring and im also very lazy for that kind of stuff...

    About ur video, I realized the main issue about Gief's kick lariat, his last frame is totally vulnerable, removing it would make both attacks whiff, then Zangief could quickly punish( my best choice, st mp, st lk, sweep) either that or honda winning with a grab, leaving the situation 50/50, IMO keeping it fair.
    Last frame of kick lariat is: Zangief_klariat10.pnghuge middle body blue box

    With punch lariat losing to heabutt is cuz honda hits the knee ( arrow headbutt to the knee), unlike to kick lariat having a smaller blue box in the lower body, so by simply making punch lariat lower blue box the same to kick lariat, Gief would be able to beat headbutts clean.

    If u remove the last frame of vulnerabilty it would be bad for shotos cuz Zangief could spam kick lariats even more with minimal punishment. either way Gief would move up in tiers but nothing overpowered, n about his HHS u can always can sweep those.

    The only 2 changes I could think of Gief is 1 of the previously mentioned, and giving -2 frames of recovery on his banishing flat, nothing insane as the -4 frames of HDR, quoted from Sirlin:
    http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-zangief.html
    Green Hand with Less Recovery
    Green hand now has 4 frames less recovery. Earlier development versions had even less recovery, but they proved disastrous.......
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    Can you give rog the ability to do tap through fbs like hf...i think that would be sick

    How about O.Rog gets that instead?
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