Hacking the ST rom...

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Comments

  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    That's really cool if you are getting stuff like this to work, Born2SPD! Democratizing remixing ability? I wouldn't worry too much about it splitting the community like HDR- HDR had a big professional promotional campaign for the top consoles, and EVO political support (and, you know, that whole "legal" thing going for it). And with no online, who would play anyone's remix over the original, outside of messing around, or maybe to test hypotheses of how effective some moves are over others? Or, put another way: Who actually thinks anyone would prefer their own particular remix over anyone else's? Anyway, while I personally prefer original, I'd respect your dedication and curious to see what you find out about the game under the hood.

    XSPR
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Could we make it so if sim presses a button blue boxes appear all over the place.

    That'd be pretty balanced.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    If u remove the last frame of vulnerabilty it would be bad for shotos cuz Zangief could spam kick lariats even more with minimal punishment. either way Gief would move up in tiers but nothing overpowered, n about his HHS u can always can sweep those.
    There isn't much they can do still. The main issue is lariats slightly shrink his legs hurboxes. Trying to punish eventual kick lariats with mid attacks (Ryu's Hadou and Ken's st.RH) is extremely risky, that is, not worth it. I believe the shotos are nicely balanced (but Ken's crazy kicks, I'm now convinced they are an issue since both Aniken and Mattsun often get them when they do not want them), changing them could potencially screw all low tiers. BTW: N.Ken's Jab SRK already beats all specials, but Vega's flip kicks and Rog's Bufallo Headbutts. I am also convinced Sirlin's view of O.Ken's Jab SRK being too spammable is not well justified. I still believe Rog's headbutts have no business beating all SRK-like moves and Flask kicks.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Afro, that would be pretty easy to do, but as jizzon said, N.Rog should not have it, it will be too good... maybe for O.Rog...
    Bastard, you're mistaken: Honda's Headbutt hits Zangief's Head hurtbox, not his foot one. In my hack i moved the head hitbox exactly 1 pixel upward, and as you can see in the video it beats Honda's HB cleanly. I dont understand why you think this would not be fair? Honda is a trash matchup, you should know this better than most people here. If you spam lariat Honda can just use his huge range command sweep... Anyway, if people really thinks that change is unfair i can just remove it, no stress... but imo that would be a mistake.
    XPSR, it will be possible to play this online in ggpo, remember that folks are playing 3s in the karnovs room? the same can be done with any fba game i believe.
    OSBR, i just checked that right now and its actually the opposite, Zangief's foot hurtbox is actually projected 2 pixels forward. Also, Ken's RH can't hit Kick lariat at all, only the Punch one. EDIT: unless you're talking about the last recovery frame.

    About an hack replacing original ST: I always knew that would not happen, i just wanted to make it clear in the first post so ppl can understand that i dont have sirlin tendencies. If i will really do this, it will be just for fun. But since i'm a perfectionist person, i dont really want to just create a big mess. Even if my hack is straight better than ST and a fair amount of people plays it, i will not choose to main it over ST. I just wanted to make that clear.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    Lol people suggesting graphic and sound hacking. He isn't any where near the places to edit those things.
    Roms 1 and 2 Sound Driver(Z80) this includes the music.
    Roms 11 and 12 are the sounds.
    anything past 12 is the graphics.
    Plus the regular cps1 uses Kabuki instead of Q-sound so you have to figure out that driver too.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I think Hawk needs a more invincible DP for a longer time. Make it so that it beats everything and give all the old hit boxes to N hawk. And if you can fix the DP glitch so that hawk can control his reversal DP strength, that would help out in some matches. That should balance him out.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,159
    I have a lot of ideas for Blanka, but they require heavy modifications (HF Vertical ball for example) so I don't know if that would be possible.

    Some of the changes I want for Honda can be tricky too, but I'll mention them anyways

    + O.Honda normals: standing HP, cr.HP, standing LK and MK, cr.MP
    + Can steer LP hands like O.Honda
    + HK buttslam has HF like trajectory, to serve as a Boxer Buffalo Headbutt way to fight projectiles
    + Extra priority on neutral jumping Fierce so it can beat/trade with stuff like Chun's j.MK or DeeJay's j.HK
    + Find a way to make all hits of super connect, lol.
    + HDR like priority on j.LK

    - Remove stored Oicho
    - Oicho always crosses up against a cornered opponent. This way another tick is possible, but after that the situation is reset
    - Remove stored super
    - Super damage reduced to 30%
    - Less priority on HHS
    - Jab headbutt has O.Honda startup

    As for Hawk, I think N.Hawk with O.Hawk's normals and a faster sweep would make him very strong, and that should be easy to implement. Touching anything else (besides the glitch) would probably be very dangerous lol.
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Does moving zangief's head hitbox up one pixel make it a worse anti air?
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    CWheezy: Not at all.

    Cronopio: My idea for a balanced Hawk is very similar to yours. N.Hawk with the better normals from O.Hawk, as well as the better DPs. But then there would be no point in playing O.Hawk. I like the idea of balancing all n chars AND make the O.chars interesting to use. We can buff chars like O.Cammy, O.DJ, O.Blanka with some completelly new stuff just to make then interesting.

    Anyway, some of the stuff you mentioned i know how to change, and others i dont. Anything that doesnt involves the quantity of frames some hitboxes are displayed or the actual hitboxes will not be possible, at least for now.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    For Zangief, how about just adjusting the hurtbox at his head on the punch version? He'd have to commit somewhat that way, so if you could bait him into doing it, you could still, say, walk up and hit him with Honda's long-range sweep. The other HDR properties each one had would be fine too.

    For Hawk, first and foremost, get rid of the reversal bug. Eventually, if everyone figures how to reverse-engineer his throw whiff, we could have a version with that, but better, higher damage normals, slightly improved Rising Hawks, and two dives (along with throw tech and super).

    "Old" Hawk could keep the smaller hurtbox and have a few very minor tweaks, but since he'd still have his amazing installs and tick setups, he's not exactly hurting for throw techs, a super, or much of anything else. Once much of the rest of the cast at the top gets backed off (Sagat's Tiger Shots, Claw's Dive, etc), he could still beast.

    "New" Hawk would have more varied and powerful options, but he wouldn't have that safe option select everyone loves. Would give you a reason to choose between them, at least. If anyone's seriously against this (as nothing satisfies everyone), I have a pretty in-depth list I've been polishing for going on four years, including specifics for changes that could be adapted across the different versions.
  • DRGDRG Joined: Posts: 4
    Give n.Fei all cancelable normals o.Fei has.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    That would be a bit much for a Fei with comboable Chicken Wings, don't you think?
  • DRGDRG Joined: Posts: 4
    Yeah, maybe, but since this hack is not meant to be serious, I mean, it won't replace original ST in any way, I think it would be nice to have a Fei being able to cancel almost any normal while having chicken wing and super at his disposal. In ST my main is o.Fei, mainly for all the cancelables he has (ton of links that end in Rekkas), adding super, chicken and throw softening is my idea of a perfect Fei.
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    QrQW0.png
    Sad thing not many know how hard it is.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    In that case, give all of Gief's double suplexes the reversal bug, his HF kick lariat, instant dizzy headbutts, and all of his other HDR changes. Plus, let's have him be able to call in a bear to attack you, and his super breaks your neck and permanently eliminates that character from the select screen.

    Gief perfection.
  • Half-RoHalf-Ro Omae wa mo shinderu.... Joined: Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Cool thread! I love the idea of just frame data and hitbox changes versus crazy SWEEPING changes (adding invincibility to moves, etc). But, since it really isn't going to be played in a "real" capacity anyways, experimenting could be fun too. I dunno I am torn lol. I like that idea of ST with no supers but, lots of matches would have to be tweaked (N.Sim vs most of the cast is going to be rolling in his favor as is).
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    It'd be far easier to just build an external program that does the dirty work for you but using a graphical layout.

    Like showing the sprite and allowing you to edit the box per the frame and just write the changes to the rom. I'd hate to do this blindly like you are now haha.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
    <bookah> turbo handjob
    <baklakiller> sure if had a penis
    <baklakiller> im a beginner gief
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    Yeah doing this blindly is a huge undertaking even the developer's editor to showed the corners of the hitboxes on the characters.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    What you guys mean by "blindly"?. I go exactly where the values that must be changed are. Also, with all the hitboxes images that i put in the wiki, its very easy to figure out which value i must change it to. Just a matter of analyzing the image and do some basic hex math. Once you get used to it it will not take more than 5 mins per change. But still, if i had an program that did this automatically it would be better. I thought about writing a simple tool in C to do this job (without an GUI of course, i dont even know how to code that...), but seriously i'm not that motivated. For the developer editor, does ST have it? I know that HF has it, i checked it last night, very cool stuff.
    Anyway, i feel so lazy to do all this hacking stuff... ill probably just write a quick guide and post it here or something...
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227

    Well this is just one editor essentially for frame data. But, there is another edits the hitboxes.

    Edit: I'll upload the hitbox editor tomorrow.

    Edit 2: The text is there so most likely it's still there.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Exactly like that.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
    <bookah> turbo handjob
    <baklakiller> sure if had a penis
    <baklakiller> im a beginner gief
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    sf2tj-09-17-033637.png
    But thats for HF, i dunno how to access it in ST...
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    sz7vS.png
    The win quotes are just Ascii.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • TheMuffinManTheMuffinMan 「満」 「寸」 「越」 Joined: Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Man, if only there were a way to import all of the bonus stages from HF into ST...

    Any chances on a tutorial for what has been figured out so far?
    "That you float along in the ocean and live a life of peace does not come from your own resourcefulness." - Demon's Sermon on Martial Arts
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    Just to make sure, there is no way for this stuff to get thrown into GGPO, Right?

    Or if there is, do both players have to have the same version to the Rainbow ROM, right?

    critters2_shot6l.jpg
    *********************************************** ST RAINBOW ROM *************************************************

    Be careful what you create.... LOL ;)
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Critters was such an awesome movie.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
    <bookah> turbo handjob
    <baklakiller> sure if had a penis
    <baklakiller> im a beginner gief
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    Man, if only there were a way to import all of the bonus stages from HF into ST...
    The graphics are still there (even in HSF2). Plus the graphics for tournament version of ssf2 where you link 8 cabs together.
    Edit: FHD's Hitbox editor has to wait for another day.

    Edit 2:
    ift7P.png

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • Half-RoHalf-Ro Omae wa mo shinderu.... Joined: Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I would really dig a community modded ST. The entire, interested, ST community contributes changes and all have to be approved by majority (or something). I wonder what would we be able to create...
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    fatboy, apparently yes, it will be possible to play this on ggpo. I believe that if the players have different roms, the game wont start at all. But if it happens to start somehow, it will for sure desync when a modified move take effect over something, doesnt that makes sense? You don't see Gief players using GMC rom to get that insta dizzy headbutt on GGPO... Anyway, ill test this soon, just to be 100% sure. Then, ill give explanations on how to hack frame data and hitboxes so you guys can mess with it.
    jedpossum: how you did that? Thats impressive man.
    Half-Ro: me too man, i think it would be fun, as long that people still plays the original ST.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    The win quotes is just knowing the location 0x021D3C and doing the byte swap to read and edit it (remember to do it again after you're done).
    The Tournament Battle I haven't completely fixed up yet, but the option to set it tournament on the ssf2 boards is still on the boards just not shown, but the memory address to the switch is.
    There is also a test for telling distance between players.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • Half-RoHalf-Ro Omae wa mo shinderu.... Joined: Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Half-Ro: me too man, i think it would be fun, as long that people still plays the original ST.

    I have no doubt in my mind that everyone who loves Vanilla ST will still continue to play it to their dying day. This, however, would be a really fun pet project for the community to find out what it would be like to remix the game in a similar manner as Sirlin. I think a community project is a little better because of the varied input allows people to see things from all sides, all biases. For ST being one of the most "known" games around, I find it cool to believe that we ACTUALLY DO have enough knowledge about the game combined to make tweaks to it and not ruin the overall feel of the game. Lets go ST:R!
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    I just got a crazier idea Hyper Street Fighter 2 The Koryu Tournament.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    I would really dig a community modded ST. The entire, interested, ST community contributes changes and all have to be approved by majority (or something). I wonder what would we be able to create...
    Sirlin must be rolling in his grave right now........... wait...... he's not dead yet, errrr..... nevermind.
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    fatboy, I believe that if the players have different roms, the game wont start at all. But if it happens to start somehow, it will for sure desync when a modified move take effect over something....

    Cool. That's addresses my worries. I would to hate see hacked version of ST running around GGPO. If there is on thing XBL has taught all of us, some players will cheat if they can.

    91816400-punishing-cheaters.jpg
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    If there is on thing XBL has taught all of us, some players will cheat if they can.
    Some already do. But I would say the number of players cheating on GGPO is surprisingly low, compared to other games I played.
  • 7 5 07 5 0 Joined: Posts: 465
    Definitely keep the supers. If you don't like it then play new challengers.
    Cps1 sfx
    Nerf boxers super
    Nerf Chun li's moves
    Reduce throw range from half-sweeping distance to close range
    Input throw command to jab and short simultaneously like 3rd strike.

    That's all for now
  • Turn A TurnTurn A Turn Joined: Posts: 26
    Allow other characters to pick up the claw.
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    Some mods
    cammy : let her have vegas jump, she already fast
    n.ken : o.ken hk and dp, reversal super
    n.gat : same cancels as o.gat and super reversal
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    Cps1 sfx
    Figure out the Kabuki sound engine, where the samples are stored exactly, the format of said sound, and figure out a conversion so it can work on Q-Sound cause nobody is going to do it for you. Sure, I'm working Q-Sound but that is just to port SFEX music to the Cps2, and guess what they're both Q-sound and there is a lot of different versions for Q-Sound.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • girlystylegirlystyle Only plays Fugazi Joined: Posts: 1,804
    Honda's hp chop a command normal as opposed to a proximity normal would be really, really nice. A super that actually works is an obvious one, and then maybe some of his Hyper Fighting hit boxes. I like the approach of making other people against honda as opposed to nerfing honda himself.

    but:

    Don't.
    Touch.
    Oichio.
    people only pay attention to me because of my vagina awesome penis
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