I personally find myself doing something beyond just reading them, and I go into leading them.
I play Shun Di, and every match my first move I aim to land is a knockdown 1PK or just 1P, then I see how they react. Suprisingly, 1PK is one of his best spacing tools, and often it goes like this.
Match start: Block, punish unsafe with 1PK.
-> Opponent techs
-> Opponent lays there
Hit them with 1PK or any knock down
-> Grab punish their tech, +4 drink with the 66P+G
-> Flip on them
Repeat previous situation
-> Do it again
-> Do it again
Repeat previous situation
-> Opponent stays down this time, flip on them
-> Opponent starts teching, Grab punish
Repeat previous situation
-> Opponent crouch blocks, oh hell you've been punished.
Opponent's reaction = Crouch block prevents it all
Knock them down
-> Opponent crouch blocks, make them eat an overhead
Basically using some proper tools, you can force your opponent to play a guessing game, the answer to which you know in the first few seconds. This is actually how I win most matches is that I punish the choices and get to 8+ drink in the first 20 seconds of the fight. From there its mix-up city, but since I exclusively play Shun Di on XBL, I find myself put against better Shun Di's who I usually strike on par with. One of them even called me "Sober Di", since most matches against him I won just by using basic spacing and punishes rather than the conventional "Hide and drink". Most of the time, in fact, I don't really get above 4 drinks in a full match set unless I have to. This is mainly because I never need to for the sake that my basic BnB takes care of most things.
Do I spam the 1PK? Its a good tool for spacing and some extra damage on combos, the knockdown is great. I don't spam it like its my only move, but rather its my go-to button like Jacky's backflip-kick. Opponent is applying heavy pressure? Make them eat a 1PK to keep them honest, and space them out with 1P. Its a great momentum breaker when you force them to block low in hopes of catching you, and you donkey kick them in the face for it.
The key is to use 1PK as a confirm and to end off stuff like a successful 4PK into 2PP 1PK into your guessing game, or a successful PPPK (rare as they are, they do come when your opponent expects the PP4P grab fake) into 1PK into your guessing game.
Average Skyler, post: 7131068, member: 70286 wrote:
Some more advice. I noticed in the OP you listed 6P+K as slow and hard to land.
On a successful 4KP, do one crouching punch and then buffer in the 6P+K.
If you do it right, it'll land as an "escapable" attack (If you've been leading they won't tech) Meaning you get your +5 drink for free almost if you land the cripple.
Past 8 drinks, if you do your basic 236PP into 6P+K, it'll also land as an "escapable" (once again, depends on your leading) which brings you to +5 drinks.
Its a sloppy but unexpected hit since it doesn't look like it will land so low to the ground, but its one of those frame things. The computer sees the opponent as "airborn" and it enters the hitbox.
Average Skyler, post: 7131108, member: 70286 wrote:
"Flip on them" is just my way of saying Shun's 8P while they are on the ground. He flips and lands on them.
"Escapable" attacks are noted by the green number on the hit counter in the Dojo. Essentially, the opponent can tech and avoid the hit.
Cripple punch is my way of saying Shun's 4KP When landed, as it cripples them (forces them into a bent-over state in which you can do just about anything).
shuntsurigi, post: 7136195, member: 70332 wrote:
I'm going to continue asking questions about matchups as there was a lot of good feedback last time
I'm having trouble with
Jean: Basically I tend to misjudge his range. His hits can really go a long way!
Brad: I tend to think his strings are shorter than they really are and attack before it's my turn. I guess I have to do the same thing I did with Kage: Go into command training to see what tools he has.
Pai and Lau: How to deal with their fast combo strings/mixups
Average Skyler, post: 7167925, member: 70286 wrote:
Against bigger guys like Jeff and Wolf, its a matter of having the better spacing.
Work on knowing their range compared to yours, and abuse 1P (not 1PK, just 1P) and get ready to break grabs whatever you can
shuntsurigi, post: 7169271, member: 70332 wrote:
Any other low/high/mid mixups recommended?
hibachifinal, post: 7183962, member: 69842 wrote:
okay after a week or two of just playing daily, ranked (hell, i'm STUCK on being Guardian rank, if that matters), player match, room, whatever... i've had some observations (well, at least to me) regarding Shun. but i'm sure these are all common sense so forgive the scrubness :V
-214KK - beginning to see how beautiful this move is. Risk it, its VERY useful, you might lose big drinks, but in the last round it won't matter. but yeah, don't just throw it out of nowhere ofc.
-214P+K - WOW. great float on counter, lots of options, never forget this exists.
-the 9P 'pounce' when opp is lying down is tricky, it can make you switch sides and you end up also in a downed state, but unlike normal, you can be HIT otg, it's basically like another stance. Just be psychic and know when and where to roll out when this happens.
-63214P+G is his best throw, and this is just my observation, most people tend to throw escape neutral and forward throws
from Oushin (front) - KP2KK
43+PK P (VERY dirty)
hibachifinal, post: 7190775, member: 69842 wrote:
^very different. I basically had to relearn shun in FS
edit- i may be exaggerating, but yeah, he's somewhat different, in a sense that his commands have been switched around a lot... but the fundamentals (i.e. VF2 moves) are in-tact
Average Skyler, post: 7192401, member: 70286 wrote:
VF5 was a bit of an easier time. You had a much easier command listing to follow imo, but yeah coming into FS I had to take some Dojo time.
shuntsurigi, post: 7230647, member: 70332 wrote:
I've been watching the EVO matches and it's been very refreshing. Watching Itabasi's style is very different from watching Fuudo's. When I watch Fuudo I think "WOW, there's no way I'd be able to pull that off". Not that I think that I can do what Itabasi does, but I think he has a more straightforward approach. It has made me want to use 46PPP and 66K more for example. Kissa's Crazydrunk's, LA Akira's and Sam the seed's matches were cool too.
Cuz, post: 7232007, member: 12319 wrote:
Don't forget 6p, p (or 6p drink or 6p grab or drink cancel to something or or or). It's a great little setup.