N Ken Thread

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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    That's called a DP install on the jump in.

    Yes, that would be considered a OS. DJFrijoles did a pretty complete video of other installs with other characters as well. This trick really helps you level up your game. Everyone should watch that video.

    Here Phil. study this video. This is the next level. To be a top player, you need to know all this.

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    Ah shit..    
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  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Yeah papercut, nice vid!, damn i miss djfrijoles :( dude i hope to see you again soon.
    Well i tried the dp O.S last night vs honda and it works 100%, also works vs deejay, and it works 100% too, that option select is very good and safe if blocked giving to ken enough space to zone your opponent or even risk and go for a jumping punch into tatsu then kneebash and repeat the loop.

    I was like "hmmm nice" they just ate the dp doesn't matter if they reversed my safe jump m.kick, even if they blocked it i was able to throw fireballs, knock down and repeat, nice, this is new in my arsenal.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    Here on this vid

    My question is
    -Do any one know the proper technique to avoid ryu super on wake up??? i tried negative edge, piano, double tap with very low success, i think is more like a timing thing, i have seen for this type of reversal looks like u get the dp one step ahead that your actual position (not sure looks like), same goes with sagat
    anyway example @ 0:31 vs super @ 0:47 vs proyectile
    also
    -Look how consistant ken avoid low proyectiles
    @ 6:05
    and
    -Dat ryu xup combo oO
    @10:28

    *my question is just for wake up reversal dp vs super
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    My question is
    -do any one know the proper technique to avoid ryu super on wake up??? i tried negative edge, piano, double tap with very low success, i think is more like a timing thing, i have seen for this type of reversal looks like u get the dp one step ahead that your actual position (not sure looks like), same goes with sagat
    anyway example @ 0:31
    also
    -look how consistant ken avoid low proyectiles
    @ 6:05

    lol purple ken = mattsun i thought of course he can reversal. but he's not mattsun.
    however playing offline is a bit easier to get reversal out (no lag / dropped input / speed issues)
    these guys are all good man. you just have to double tap jab.
    -dat ryu sup combo oO
    @10:28

    *my question is just for wake up reversal dp vs super

    OK so this is a variation of the mysterious player combo. ( mysterious uses MP instead of MK)
    according to stevetren, the cross up version is easier

    the really tough one is straight up dash punch (2hit), move a pixel forward, crouching MP/MK xx dp
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
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  • SteveTrenSteveTren RYU Ph.D Joined: Posts: 999
    OK so this is a variation of the mysterious player combo. ( mysterious uses MP instead of MK)
    according to stevetren, the cross up version is easier

    the really tough one is straight up dash punch (2hit), move a pixel forward, crouching MP/MK xx dp

    Yes the crossup version on a crouching opponent is easy and I can do it nearly 100% due to the crouching hit box..
    The Straight up dash on a standing opponent combo is insanely difficult and I can imagine it takes years to master, as I can do it very inconstantly.
    GGPO: stevetren
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Here on this vid

    My question is
    -do any one know the proper technique to avoid ryu super on wake up??? i tried negative edge, piano, double tap with very low success, i think is more like a timing thing, i have seen for this type of reversal looks like u get the dp one step ahead that your actual position (not sure looks like), same goes with sagat
    anyway example @ 0:31
    also
    -look how consistant ken avoid low proyectiles
    @ 6:05
    and
    -dat ryu sup combo oO
    @10:28

    *my question is just for wake up reversal dp vs super

    It's pretty difficult to do, but I just double-tap the jab. It's something I have to practice pretty consistently to get the proper motion. Ideally you want to be able to put the jab for the special 3 frames in a row as tight as you can. frame 1 press jab, frame 2 release the jab, frame 3 press the jab again. In theory that's the best way to perform it reliably, in practice it's pretty damn difficult. I have noticed that the timing feels a lot easier offline than online. I can hardly get any reversal playing online.

    Not sure what you're looking at 6:05. I just see him do a standard jab uppercut through a fireball.

    10:28 Goddamn that combo hurts. I'm able to do the standard version that ends in a fireball, and I haven't had much luck landing an uppercut at the end. I find that the best way to consistently land the link after the dash punch is to piano either a) all 3 cr.punches in rapid succession, that way you're sure to get at least ONE of the punches to land, and b) double-tap the cr.fwd, or c) combine that cr.fwd by pianoing it with the cr.rh for a simple combo, or cr.short x uppercut.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Something weird happened not long ago. I was playing a mirror match vs a friend of mine, suddenly, i was on the corner and my friend comboed me with a st. fierce into fierce dp with four hits(big damage of course ala HDR Ken)!, you can't do that to Ken, Ryu, Chun-Li and Claw, how was that possible?, meaty st.fierce?(wait that's impossible).

    No i wasn't drunk or high or whatever.

    I asked to my friend and he said that he had no idea. i went to training mode, i revived the scenario and that shit is imppossible! DA FUC!?
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Something weird happened not long ago. I was playing a mirror match vs a friend of mine, suddenly, i was on the corner and my friend comboed me with a st. fierce into fierce dp with four hits(big damage of course ala HDR Ken)!, you can't do that to Ken, Ryu, Chun-Li and Claw, how was that possible?, meaty st.fierce?(wait that's impossible).

    No i wasn't drunk or high or whatever.

    I asked to my friend and he said that he had no idea. i went to training mode, i revived the scenario and that shit is imppossible! DA FUC!?
    I am pretty sure it is possible. It is just rare.

    BTW: YuuVega (N.Dictator) vs Mattsun (N.Ken)

    There are a few interesting things there:
    • backwards reversal Jab SRK [←(↙)↓↘+Jab, most likely] counter against Fierce Psycho Crusher (the very first time YuuVega used it, IIRC);
    • "Hadouy crazy kick" (Inside Crescent) anti-air;
    • several types of mix-ups into throw (whiff st.Jab, jumping Jab, jumping Jab xx Tatsumaki, cross-up Fwd cr.short, etc);
    plus Mattsun's usual solid play.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    No, you got me wrong, Oldschool, because IT'S TOTTALY POSSIBLE to punish dictactor with standing fierce + 3 hits of the fierce dp, mattsun knows that, and that's why he punishes dictactor with that combo.

    Check this list
    1. Ryu*
    2. Ken*
    3. Guile
    4. Chun*
    5. Blanka
    6. Honda
    7. Sim
    8. Gief
    9. Hawk
    10. Deejay
    11. Cammy
    12. Fei
    13. Sagat
    14. Boxer
    15. Claw*
    16. Dictator
    17. Akuma*
    Ryu, Ken, Chun, Claw, Akuma can't take the full standing fierce + 3 hits of the fierce dp.
    So i repeat again, how was that possible? ken vs ken no way!
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    You must have been ducking. You're bigger when you duck. no homo.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    OMG, Phil! The part after "BTW" is just cos this is the N.Ken thread. That has nothing to do with your question.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    lol
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    This is the time-stamp of the SRK counter in the video.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    This Ken player is pretty sick. He makes Pony look like a newb here.

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    Ah shit..    
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  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    This Ken player is pretty sick. He makes Pony look like a newb here.

    man, all those walk up throws...
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    This Ken player is pretty sick. He makes Pony look like a newb here.

    In case anyone who doesn't read the description
    Pony ( ST Hawk ) & Chourou ( ST Zangief ) vs. Kameraya ( ST Ken )

    Who on earth is Kameraya ?

    Daigo said,"His foot sweep is just like the SLOW Running Grand Straight."
    Aniken said,"I want to aquire his foot sweep skill."

    Kameraya is an old school style player. Nowaday,fireball can be used as poke in the short range.However, He hardly ever shoots fireball in the short range.He uses foot sweep for main poke. The more he pokes his opponent with foot sweep,the more he can make his opponent aware of need for block.When his opponent is on guard against foot sweep,he will be easy to throw.

    カメラ屋さん
    http://beastdaigo.jp/versus_chap5.shtml ( entirely in japanese )

    Man these footsies are so pure and intense/fast paced. I mean he never even jumps in and there are 2-3 dragon punches in the whole video?

    I remembered watching 25th SF4 qual grand final snakeeyez gief vs (justin rufus?) and the stream monsters kept saying omgzfomg intense footsies11111! but in fact it was sooooooo freaking boring. Lots of walk back and forth feigning and no action. 15% life lead and then back off to your corners for 10 seconds.

    TBF some of the ST honda MUs and claw MUs are like that too.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    I looked through the STR results section and there's only one showing for Kamerya and that was an old Master Secret Cup tournament from the early 2000s. I remember that he entered X-MANIA earlier this year so it's nice to see him still competiting.

    Anyone know what event this video is from?
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Dude, this guy is really fucking fun to watch. If any of you have tried playing N Ken seriously, you will appreciate this guys execution. Something as simple as walking forward and going into cr hk is really fucking hard to do consistently due to the crazy kick motion. He looks like an old school player, his style reminds me of champion edition.

    Here he is giving Mattsun a run for his money.

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    Ah shit..    
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  • girlystylegirlystyle Only plays Fugazi Joined: Posts: 1,804
    That's some hot shit!
    people only pay attention to me because of my vagina awesome penis
  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    What made it really entertaining was that Mattsun even took on an old school style of play for that set as well with jab feints and close short pressure... in addition to typical crazy Mattsun shit.
    "See, Super Turbo is a real man's game... But Street Fighter 4's like Chuck-E-Cheese, baby. Y'know what I'm saying? Where a kid can be a kid. I'm a grown-ass man, so clearly I'm not old enough to go in the ball pit." -Steve Harrison (Translation: dat Fo' make you soft)
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  • Turn A TurnTurn A Turn Joined: Posts: 26
    "He's an old-school player that, according to Daigo, has the best footsie action in ST."

    http://curryallergy.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/japanese-ssf2t-player-report-part-5.html
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I really like his style of play, and his willingness to limit his special use at close range. His timing and spacing with that sweep is impeccable.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Mattsun is always in berserker mode with his fucking scary ken!. I prefer watching Mattsun over any other ST player.

    Nuff said.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    I'm more curious if he's doing df hk or db hk.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    you can't df hk walking forward, it will crazy kick. when you walk to the spacing you want, you have to go all the way to the back position, then go db hk to avoid crazy kicks. It's harder then it looks. If you ever see a new ken player consistently be able to play footsies and cancel cr hk into fireball, you know that guys execution is legit.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    you can't df hk walking forward, it will crazy kick. when you walk to the spacing you want, you have to go all the way to the back position, then go db hk to avoid crazy kicks. It's harder then it looks. If you ever see a new ken player consistently be able to play footsies and cancel cr hk into fireball, you know that guys execution is legit.
    u r wrong, I always do fw, then df sweep then cancel into fb, just make sure to hold the roundhouse button down, if u release it u might get a crazy kick
    I have seen djf doin it all the time, but not sure if he holds the kick buttons down
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    I go from walking to neutral then straight down. I don't like to hold the kicks cause I never felt comfertable doing that but thats just myn personal preference. For walking FB cancels without any pause whatsoever I use this too and go into a FB motion. If you go all the way to back for a sweep you you give up to much precision time in footsies.

    Walking FB cancels is really helpfull vs Rog and Guile but it's like there is a double barrier to get past. First you have to bypass the :f::df::d: crazy kick and then you have to find the timing to not get a DP instead of a FB. Takes a little practice in training mode but its not that hard to learn. Sooner or later you can do walking sweep into Fierce FB.

    Kinda got of point there but I like this subject with Ken cause not many people recognize and appreciate it in the match vids when it happenes right in fornt of thier eyes.
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
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  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    Do Kenneth sweep into kara cancel jab dp!
    supercade.damdai.com
    tonamento.damdai.com
    frame-advantage.com
  • ANaqviANaqvi Joined: Posts: 83
    For me I noticed going from forward to down forward kick allows me to sweep. If i go all the way to down then the crazy kick comes out. This makes sense too. The input for that weird crescent kick (the move that comes out when you mess up a sweep) is (→↘↓ + K).
    If you just do →↘ fkick the sweep will come out not the crescent kick because you didn't input the commant for the crescent kick.
    shotosallday
    Outturtled
    Bach
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    snip.
    I just hold down the roundhouse for walking sweep, or even crouching roundhouse into fireball or even dp, i feel very, very confortable just holding down roundhouse.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    For me I noticed going from forward to down forward kick allows me to sweep. If i go all the way to down then the crazy kick comes out. This makes sense too. The input for that weird crescent kick (the move that comes out when you mess up a sweep) is (→↘↓ + K).
    If you just do →↘ fkick the sweep will come out not the crescent kick because you didn't input the commant for the crescent kick.



    see thats the thing though. What about canceling into FB ? you would have to go to :d: after the kick input which completes the funky kick motion. If you don't hold down the kick then I would think the chances of negative edging a funky kick when going for a zone reset increment alot.


    I just hold down the roundhouse for walking sweep, or even crouching roundhouse into fireball or even dp, i feel very, very confortable just holding down roundhouse.


    Yea it's just a matter of preference I guess. If it works for you then cool.
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    yeah is like a natural reflex ^_^
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    i use d old down back to roundhouse + fb
  • psychostasiapsychostasia precision machinery Joined: Posts: 32
    edited October 2013
    might be worthwhile to get down the timing of using a built-in super off a safe jump. it starts so fast that i've had it catch certain reversal specials (like honda's headbutt or ryu's dp) on the ground so that they eat the entire super. of course focusing on such a thing is the reason why i lack a lot of really basic ken/shoto stuff but hey. it's fun to do

    anybody love playing against dee jay as ken? it's such an interesting match that can't just be boiled down to a matchup number. i think dee jay really has a nice answer to the jab dp that pisses everybody off at times. but then again he still has to deal with usual shoto pressure and it doesn't take too much to lock him down fireball wise
    Post edited by psychostasia on
    Thanks papasi.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    edited October 2013
    might be worthwhile to get down the timing of using a built-in super off a safe jump. it starts so fast that i've had it catch certain reversal specials (like honda's headbutt or ryu's dp) on the ground so that they eat the entire super. of course focusing on such a thing is the reason why i lack a lot of really basic ken/shoto stuff but hey. it's fun to do

    anybody love playing against dee jay as ken? it's such an interesting match that can't just be boiled down to a matchup number. i think dee jay really has a nice answer to the jab dp that pisses everybody off at times. but then again he still has to deal with usual shoto pressure and it doesn't take too much to lock him down fireball wise
    Definitely worth the time: it beats almost every move in the game. I believe Ryu only eats 4 hits with his Jab SRK, but as Ken's super does more damage, it deal as much as Ryu's full super. Ryu's head is vulnerable, and this makes the first hit whiff.

    I feel Dee Jay's hurtbox is too small and this really hurts Ken's game. Hard to DP, hard to sweep, etc. I also feel I am always at risk trading projectiles, since his recovery is shorter and I am guaranteed to be forced to throw a bunch of them which could all be punished either by a preemptive normal or a jump-in. And the bastard is so hard to cross-up I don't even bother with the forward kick one. It seems the plan is to knee-bash his ass or die trying.

    I suck as Ken, though...
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    edited October 2013
    I find that safejumping Deejay really helps Ken with this matchup, it's much better and more effective than crossups, followed by throw / SRK / sweep mixups. And if you've got O.Ken, you can install an invincible SRK to beat the Jackknife or MGU. It's tough to get the timing down, but I'm pretty confident about it now, and it totally throws the DJ player off his game.

    ST Wiki says DJ's RH Jackknife hits on the 5th frame but I thought it was the same as Chun Li's RH Tenshou, which hits on the 3rd frame. If that's right then that would explain why I find it easier to safejump DJ than Chun Li, so maybe the Wiki is right.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Huh, i'm with the dj's wiki page open right now and here it says his Rh upkick (fastest one) has a 4 frame startup.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    edited October 2013
    smart deejays also use machine gun upper, just to mess around with ur safe jumps, which ends up trading A LOT, knockin u down n then deejay going for a cross up combo for the win
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I honestly feel like it's safer, and much more reliable, simply going for meaty pressure instead of safe jumps against Deejay. A well-spaced cr.strong or fireball seems to be the better option, but then again, I'm a pretty safe player in general.
  • moegreenmoegreen Joined: Posts: 11
    Anyone have advice on executing ken's overhead cross-under? The positioning, timing and circumstances are not easy to discern.
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