Temporary ST Wiki Thread: No Payday Loans Here

Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing Super Coffee Fighter VJoined: Posts: 5,174 mod
Since the old Wiki Thread is having issues ( http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/18651/payday-loan/p1 ), I've started this new thread for wiki related discussion. We'll try to figure out what happened to the old thread.

Sorry for any trouble you've experienced.
The artist formerly known as Starcade RIP
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Comments

  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    edited May 2013
    It would be interesting to have a post with the current state of the wiki. This would probably be best done by Born2SPD, since he's been the one working on it the most recently. Now that I have a full-time job it's going to be a rare event that I have time to dedicate to the project.

    So far, this is what I could find:
    • First page to be broken into smaller sections;
    • Yoga Book Hyper section needs work, since 1) with most hitboxes and correct frame data on the Wiki and on Papasi's hitbox website, 2) strategy sections translated in Super SF2 Turbo network and 3) some interviews translated in websites such as NH2 blog, it's value is as collectible material, mostly;
    • several links are dead due to wiki itself and SRK forums changing domain names. Since the forums are updated quite often, I believe a better idea would be to simply remove most links to these forums and just reproduce the content;
    • the new frame advantage box hasn't been filled in any character section;
    • Ryu's strategy sections could be updated;
    • Ken's strategy section is not complete;
    • Honda's section misses comments on a few normals, strategy section is incomplete;
    • Chun Li's strategy section is not complete;
    • Blanka's section misses comments on a few normals, strategy section is not complete;
    • Zangief's strategy section is incomplete;
    • Guile's strategy section is incomplete;
    • Dhalsim's strategy section is not complete;
    • Hawk's strategy section is incomplete;
    • Cammy's damage is missing, strategy section is not complete;
    • Fei Long's damage is missing, strategy section is not complete;
    • Dee Jay's damage is missing, strategy section incomplete;
    • Boxer's damage data is missing, misses comments on a few normals, strategy section is not complete;
    • Claw's frame and damage data is missing;
    • Sagat's section misses comments on normals and the strategy section is empty;
    • O.Sagat's section misses comments on normals and has no strategy section;
    • Dictator's strategy section is incomplete;

    Comments on the state of other old characters and Akuma to be added.

    It goes without saying that the ST Wiki is the best one by a large margin. It should get more love.
    Post edited by oldschool_BR on
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    edited March 2013
    Your list is good enough, i think i dont need to do one myself, thanks!
    The only thing i believe you missed are the akuma's hitboxes, which I plan to do at some point, just didnt had the time or the inspiration...

    Anyway, i am not having much free time these days. It would be nice if someone could put the frame advantage data on the wiki, theres a lua script for that since quite some time, so it should be fairly easy to add them to the wiki.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    I actually want to know something, hopefully someone can make a side by side comparisson of arcade ST offline vs GGPO online, it doesnt really have to be side by side, lets say play arcade first, record, then later play GGPO online, record, then put both videos side by side, first part should be how long does it take for both the time run up, then after that an actual play of 2 players, lets say online vs someone with ping 100/150 ms range, cuz so many ppl claim offline is to online as day and night
    also besides uploading to youtube( it runs at 30fps) upload the raw file so we can watch at 60 FPS
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    edited March 2013
    I actually want to know something, hopefully someone can make a side by side comparisson of arcade ST offline vs GGPO online, it doesnt really have to be side by side, lets say play arcade first, record, then later play GGPO online, record, then put both videos side by side, first part should be how long does it take for both the time run up, then after that an actual play of 2 players, lets say online vs someone with ping 100/150 ms range, cuz so many ppl claim offline is to online as day and night
    also besides uploading to youtube( it runs at 30fps) upload the raw file so we can watch at 60 FPS
    This may be good to illustrate some of the issues, but I wonder how well this test will work in terms of showing things clearly. The main problem of lag (+ input delay) is that you have less time to react. Walk up throw, random jumps (specially Sagat, Blanka, Hawk, Gief and Claw), aerial attack and walk up throw, dash/hop throw (Blanka, Sagat, Boxer, Ryu), projectile barrage, normal move spamming, all are harder to block or counter under lag. Sometimes, it's impossible, without prediction.


  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    Does anybody dispute that offline ISN'T different from the online experience?
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    its to quantify it
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    Hmmm, well would latency ratings do it? You can see how good your connection is to your opponent in the lobby, which quantifies a rate of response time to the server.
  • Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing Super Coffee Fighter V Joined: Posts: 5,174 mod
    Just a heads-up: I'm still trying to get to the bottom of the issue with the wiki thread.

    Who was the original poster? Were they previously banned?

    If we were to reassign the post to another user, who should we assign it to?
    The artist formerly known as Starcade RIP
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    pick me pick me? well, put djfrijoles, he has been for a very long time in the ST forums
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    edited May 2013
    Both N and O Cammy frame data are on the wiki now. I gathered it during the last 4 days.
    I also have put up a hooligan cancel/throw window table.

    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Cammy_(ST)
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/O._Cammy_(ST)

    The only differences (frame wise) from O.Cammy and N.Cammy are the close fierce (O.Cammy has faster recovery by 2 frames, can combo into another fierce very easy) and the spin knuckle (the punch special no one uses), the rest is the same.
    O.Cammy has better priority on most aerial normals and on some ground normals though.

    Now, only O/N Claw's Normals and N/O.DJ's MGUs are left for the wiki to be complete regarding frame data (!). Plus, it's the most precise frame data available anywhere.
    I know i'm not counting akuma, he will be added at some point, but he is very low priority on my list.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    man above all the ftroam data i would consider match up knowldege more huiehger
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    I clicked on the O.Cammy link above, but it says there's no content on the page. Is that right?
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    OCAMMHY_zpse5bc9a9d.png
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Born2SPD wrote: »
    snip
    Nice! Current Wiki state post updated.
    eltrouble wrote: »
    I clicked on the O.Cammy link above, but it says there's no content on the page. Is that right?
    Sort of, read below!
    djfrijoles wrote: »
    snip
    Clicking on the link leads you to "http://wiki.shoryuken.com/O._Cammy" instead of "http://wiki.shoryuken.com/O._Cammy_(ST)".
    djfrijoles wrote: »
    man above all the ftroam data i would consider match up knowldege more huiehger
    Yep. Do you think you could give ideas on the Ken and Hawk pages? Hawk has no matchup advice against shotos, Chun and Guile, for instance. Gief can always use new tech, also.

  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    oh wtf, the forum fucked up with the links

    Sure i agree with you djf, matchup knowledge > frame data

    But all the expert players dont give a damn about the wiki, so...
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    The experts don't care about the wiki, but the new players sure do. I've got a couple of buddies who are trying out the TRUST system, reading up on the SRK ST wiki, along with the hit box viewer, and it really helps them understand the game and why certain moves work the way they do. Personally, I've love to see more information on the 'normals, specials, supers' section, as well as matchup/strategy details.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Oh sorry, i wasnt clear enough. What i meant was: if the actually good players dont care about the wiki, then who will contribute with decent matchup knowledge? i dont even dare to write much on the gief mathcup section because im sure other players know stuff i dont...
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    oh man i apologize if i came off like i was knocking your frame data work. I really appreciate all the hard work brazil has put into the wiki. What i was really trying to get across was how the matchups section needs to be filled in haha. My bad.
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    edited May 2013
    Born2SPD wrote: »
    Oh sorry, i wasnt clear enough. What i meant was: if the actually good players dont care about the wiki, then who will contribute with decent matchup knowledge? i dont even dare to write much on the gief mathcup section because im sure other players know stuff i dont...

    I don't think that the good player don't want to fill in the wiki, but the wiki makes it so difficult to contribute that most people give up.
    How many people have a wiki account?
    To get one there is no automated system, you have to track down the email address and send in a request.
    Right there it stopped 90% of the people who will want to contribute.
    Why not let everyone who has a forum account in?

    Also they configured the wiki so restrictive that no external images or videos can be embedded.

    I really applaud your effort to upload the images to the wiki server and then link them one by one.
    It's just way too much work for anyone that is not super dedicated.

    We should be proud that the ST wiki is the best among all games.
    Even when srk commissioned the MvC3 wiki project, it took them many people 6 months of work to have something presentable.
    iirc when UMvC3 comes out I don't think they ever go back and make that level of coverage for the additions and changes.

    TLDR; I don't think srk cared much or they would have make it easier for people to contribute.
    The for profit websites like eventhubs have better coverage for others games for example.

    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Well, if thats the main problem then people can submit stuff here or send it via PM for me and ill put it myself in the wiki (with proper credits of course).
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    edited May 2013
    Great work B2SPD, thanks for all your hard work and dedication.

    For those who want to contribute to the ST Wiki (strategy, matchups, anything, etc), it's really not that hard to get your own Wiki account. Just click on "Log in" at the top right of the main ST page, and then click on "To obtain a user account, you must request one."

    It shouldn't take more than a week to get your account (mine took a couple of days). And you don't have to be a tech wiz or programmer to use the Wiki (I'm not), and it can seem difficult at first but it's really not much harder than using the SRK forums. If someone insists I can create a beginner's guide to posting in the Wiki (but SRK already has a bunch of tutorials already, you just have to look for them).

    If enough people get accounts and update the ST Wiki, then it will truly be one of the best, most comprehensive Wikis out there.
  • fakeakagifakeakagi Joined: Posts: 117
    It would be nice if someone updated some of the matchup information. For Guile I think there's a grand total of 2 and some of the other characters have even less.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    As much as I relied on NKIs content on the wiki when I started out, I recall that many of the key points I use in various matchups aren't there... I'll double check tonight. And will submit a wiki account request if I feel I Gan contribute.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    edited October 2013
    Wow. There is a LOT I can contribute...and a lot of the matchups are completely empty.

    (Chun v Cammy 6-4?? More like 7-3 that's probably outdated. I can explain that matchup too. I notice many chuns (even very experienced ones) playing it wrong. (Damn autocorrect. Chun came out "chino" and "then")
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    edited October 2013
    Thats supposed to be Nakamura's/Otochun's opinion man, not saying your not good, but I think their opinion is probably the right one, unless something changed so drastically in that mathcup over the years?
    Anyway, your right, there's so much stuff left. Please share all your knowledge! (I've done the same on the gief page!)
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    Well, I checked the wikinagain and I saw your source (I skimmed the page earlier and I missed it). Thought it was NKI's opinion. Either way that chart was from 2008 so I'd say that's out of date anyway especially now we have that 2013 ranking chart (and their opinions did change slightly) it's 6.5-3.5 now. And its probably not because the matchup changed, just their opinion of it. Also culturally the Japanese favor rating conservatively rather than in the extremes. So for an american judgment and Casual conversation 7-3 is probably accurate. Although if I were to make a change I would state 6.5-3.5

    Yeah I'll request an account now. And get editing as soon as I'm registered
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    hmmm, lets ft10 in chun li mirror, old vs new
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Suuzan Antonoko O.Chun in ggpo is very good player. I would definitely lean towards the 7-3 match up for Chun v. Cammy as Chun Li's pokes beat Cammy's clean, for the most part.
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
    SF2 Code v1.0: t s+ T++ r f++ g+ m+ s+ v++ M++ n++:-- o++
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    added stuff to chun and cammy sections =)
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • yogaboyyogaboy Joined: Posts: 65
    edited November 2013
    I made some fixes back in August but I think I didn't posted it here.
    It was basically changing all the links in the wiki that were pointing to the srk forum posts to the new url format.
    I also cleaned up the links section removing broken links to megaupload, updating outdated urls (e.g. super-turbo.net to ssf2t.net) and added links to STRevival.
    Easiest solution that would please almost everyone -> a decent port. That is, the DC version of ST running on a PS4/XBOX.
    Difficult part -> get capcom involved. Whoever achieves that gets the golden egg and solves the problem for once and for all. Period ;)
  • fakeakagifakeakagi Joined: Posts: 117
    I added some Guile matchups. I am not the best Guile player by any stretch but I figured it was better than nothing. If anyone wants to add any thing or edit them, feel free.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    thanks
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Oops, almost forgot to mention it..
    On the damage rows, the numbr inside the square brackets reffers to which random damage table that move uses.
    All Random damage tables can be found here: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Random_Damage_(ST)
    Also, the values inside parentheses on the stun rows of the aerial normals are modifiers for when the move hits an airbone opponent.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    edited July 2014
    So, I just gathered and put ont he wiki the damage and stun data for all characters!
    Now all the data on the wiki is (finally) 100% complete.

    Something worth mentioning about Claw's damage data: some kick normals also get damage reductions from havingthe claw dropped, and some punch normals doesnt. The funniest oddity i found though is related to Vegas(claw)'s Scarlet Terror: If his claw is dropped, the forward and rh versions will actually do more damage, plus the forward version will hit twice, like Rh.

    Go for the wiki to check all the data yourselves!
    wiki.shoryuken.com/Vega_(ST)#Special_Moves
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    Great work! I noticed the formatting for the simplified frame data seems to not line up for at least a few of Claw's moves; just a heads-up. Love your new discoveries regarding Claw without his namesake.

    Speaking of Claw, I added a line in the new/old character differences for both versions that mentions how O.Claw cannot pick his back up once knocked off.

    Any ambitious plans to do Akuma's page? :p
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Hey thanks for reporting that, i wouldn't notice that anytime soon!
    As for the Akuma page... maybe in the future! For now i dont want to do any more data gathering, as i find it a very boring task...
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • yogaboyyogaboy Joined: Posts: 65
    Just a heads up that nki site has changed the url from http://nki.combovideos.com/ST/ to http://zachd.com/nki/ST/
    I updated the occurrences in the main page but I still have to look at the rest of the sections.
    Not all pages of his site has a version on the new one yet. It's still a work in progress
    Easiest solution that would please almost everyone -> a decent port. That is, the DC version of ST running on a PS4/XBOX.
    Difficult part -> get capcom involved. Whoever achieves that gets the golden egg and solves the problem for once and for all. Period ;)
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