Official shmupmame Super Turbo thread

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  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    I love you Papasi, no joke :) lets see if it works..
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    Suddenly very excited about ST again.....
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    Papasi this fucking ROCKS! Any chance to get a link for the modified build you mentioned on the second post? THANKS!
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    geadom wrote: »
    Papasi this fucking ROCKS! Any chance to get a link for the modified build you mentioned on the second post? THANKS!

    @papasi

    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 1,913
    it probably would be better to have separate folders for the older ROM versions you want to play. So you can use both the latest MAME but also the older Finalburn.
    Because now CPS2 ROMs will also change due to Qsound decapping.

    Latest MAME does not play those games because it requires qsound.bin
    too slow!
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    I want the modified build for the easy input menu, i want to check if it saves multiple button configs.

    Played today with a friend, this emu ROCKS, thanks again, Papasi!
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    Got shmupmame 4.2 downloaded at the Arkadeum studio and we played pretty much the whole day. Felt buttery smooth aside from the minor input delay from using a projector. Yet again, receives my seal of approval for best form of emulated ST.
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    papasi, have you looked into testing USB lag?
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    edited June 2013
    geadom wrote: »
    Papasi this fucking ROCKS! Any chance to get a link for the modified build you mentioned on the second post? THANKS!

    i got it working for regular mame but shmupmame's author is not replying to the support thread on shmup forum. i couldn't get shmupmame to compile because he's not providing full source code, only modified files.
    jdubs wrote: »
    papasi, have you looked into testing USB lag?

    no.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    Anyone knows how to map those "Custom" buttons? I want to play with my bro, but he plays Blanka and maps the hop (3K) to a button.

    Thanks.
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    geadom wrote: »
    Anyone knows how to map those "Custom" buttons? I want to play with my bro, but he plays Blanka and maps the hop (3K) to a button.

    Thanks.
    u can by editing the txt document that saves ur inputs, this is how I do it in damdai's supercade to use 3P n 3k, idk what is the actual name of the file in shmupmame but shouldnt be hard to find it

    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    papasi, any luck with the 60 fps camera / lagless display and doing the nki input lag test?
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    jdubs wrote: »
    papasi, any luck with the 60 fps camera / lagless display and doing the nki input lag test?

    not sure what i missed. all the tests i did above (except stage timer) were done using a 60fps camera (aka nki test)

    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    papasi wrote: »
    jdubs wrote: »
    papasi, any luck with the 60 fps camera / lagless display and doing the nki input lag test?

    not sure what i missed. all the tests i did above (except stage timer) were done using a 60fps camera (aka nki test)

    I guess I'm thinking about it more in an isolation of the lag problems. I.e., what's the USB controller lag vs. the inherent lag of shmupmame. Maybe its not possible to isolate the various lag contributors with the nki test....not sure.

    The nki test just (basically) measures the input lag as a whole, correct?

    -Jim
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    it's the total lag, including input / processing / display.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    Ok, cool. So, really just input and processing (for the CRT tests, anyway) since that shouldn't be relevant from a lag perspective.
  • yogaboyyogaboy Joined: Posts: 65
    whenever I change any property of the game (game speed, enable cheats, etc) it doesn't commit. If I go back to the properties menu they are set as the initial default ones.
    Easiest solution that would please almost everyone -> a decent port. That is, the DC version of ST running on a PS4/XBOX.
    Difficult part -> get capcom involved. Whoever achieves that gets the golden egg and solves the problem for once and for all. Period ;)
  • yogaboyyogaboy Joined: Posts: 65
    Thanks DG. The highlight trick you mentioned let me change the settings. Btw, the cheats section has A LOT of things you can change. It's really awesome.

    Now I am curious about the minimum requirements to run shmupmame and still perform so close to the CPS2. I think the raspberry pi is not powerful enough (yet). Otherwise, it would be a very cool, cheap and portable device for ST.
    Easiest solution that would please almost everyone -> a decent port. That is, the DC version of ST running on a PS4/XBOX.
    Difficult part -> get capcom involved. Whoever achieves that gets the golden egg and solves the problem for once and for all. Period ;)
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    Very interesting...which poll rate program did you use? Were you able to verify the polling rate actually changed via another program...if so, which one?

    Also, which win7...x32 or x64?

    Thanks,
    Jim

    yogaboy wrote: »
    whenever I change any property of the game (game speed, enable cheats, etc) it doesn't commit. If I go back to the properties menu they are set as the initial default ones.

    Whenever you change a property, click on another box/option to ensure that your change is highlighted in "black." I usually do this on the properties for the actual game and CPS2 options to ensure that the settings are intact. Once both the game and CPS2 properties match, then click "OK" and it should be good to go. You can also manually edit, the configuration .ini file to a particular option as well.


    Did some more testing that yielded some very interesting results.

    1) The USB poll rate program does indeed actually work (using Win7) for most USB sticks (I haven't been able to get my PS360 sticks to work, but all others worked). Basically, you can select the poll rate to 1000ms = 1ms as opposed to the standard Windows default USB poll rate of 8ms. There is a DEFINITE improvement.

    2) Disabling bi-linear filtering on Direct 3D seems to increase the responsiveness aka reduce the input lag as well.

    Papasi's test pretty much confirmed how close this emulator is to actually matching the cps2 board; these new adjustments should close the gap even more ;)

    Small reminder ** The best way to utilize this emulator is to output the video signal from your PC/Mac/laptop to an outside monitor that has 0ms delay (VGA CRT/IIyama LCD/Euro brand LCDs) or one of the low input lag LCDs mentioned in the tech talk section. **

  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    Also, what sticks worked with the program?
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    I have a LOT of input delay with my usb Psx / Ps2 adapter, anyone knows how to fix it?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • Dark GaidenDark Gaiden Joined: Posts: 284
    edited July 2013
    jdubs wrote: »
    Very interesting...which poll rate program did you use? Were you able to verify the polling rate actually changed via another program...if so, which one?

    Also, which win7...x32 or x64?

    Thanks,
    Jim

    I'm not sure of the official name of the program. It's the most commonly found USB poll rate program on the net (http://www.ngohq.com/news/15043-how-to-increase-usb-sample-rate-in-windows-vista-7-a.html) The files/folder you download should contain this "HIDUSBFU.INF" I checked the poll rate adjustment also via the mouserate checker program...and it was verified. I tested this on Win7 x32 and Win7 x64. Switching between the default 125hz and 1000hz will definitely be noticed by the input lag aficionados.

    Update: After testing various joysticks, it seems "so far" that this particular USB poll rate program only recognizes Playstation 2/3 joysticks and PSX adapters. When utilizing a 360 stick, the program does not seem to recognize the stick under the menu as "HID Compliant Game Controller." I tested the PS3 MadCatz SFxTF VS stick, 360 TE R1 stick, HRAP2 with ps2/ps3 adapter (Sumitomo brand), PS360 modded sticks.
    geadom wrote: »
    I have a LOT of input delay with my usb Psx / Ps2 adapter, anyone knows how to fix it?


    Geadom: What USB PS2 adapter are you using? From what I recall, there were only 2-3 USB PS2 adapters that had zero input lag (Pelican, Sumitomo, and another brand I can't recall).
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    laugh's inpin converter on etokki.com
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    Thanks Dark Gaiden. I think I got it working...but doesn't mouse rate just check the polling rate for your mouse? I.e., can you also check your stick(s) with this program?

    -Jim
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    papasi, have you ever tried groovyMAME? Might be a good alternative to shmupMAME without the occasional graphical issues that shmupMAME sometimes has.

    groovyMAME introduces a special setting called "-frame_delay" that "Delays the start of the emulation of each frame by an amount of time defined in tenths of the frame period length (0-9), in order to give a chance to the emulator to have the most possible updated input for that frame, as an attempt to minimize input lag."
  • 7 5 07 5 0 Joined: Posts: 463
    Damn, just heard about shmupmame today. Where the heck have I been?
  • Dark GaidenDark Gaiden Joined: Posts: 284
    edited July 2013
    jdubs wrote: »
    Thanks Dark Gaiden. I think I got it working...but doesn't mouse rate just check the polling rate for your mouse? I.e., can you also check your stick(s) with this program?

    -Jim

    Yea, mouse rate only checks the polling rate for the mouse. Just toggle between the different polling rates and test them out via your joystick...it's pretty noticeable between each setting.

    Testing Update: Disabling Bi-linear filtering on Direct 3D also seems to reduce the delay slightly.
    jdubs wrote: »
    papasi, have you ever tried groovyMAME? Might be a good alternative to shmupMAME without the occasional graphical issues that shmupMAME sometimes has.

    groovyMAME introduces a special setting called "-frame_delay" that "Delays the start of the emulation of each frame by an amount of time defined in tenths of the frame period length (0-9), in order to give a chance to the emulator to have the most possible updated input for that frame, as an attempt to minimize input lag."


    Ah...someone has been on the Arcadecontrols.com forums I see! I've been following the developments of groovyMame for the past few months. I definitely caught the post mentioning the "-frame_delay" option and it sounds very intriguing. I haven't spent too much time with the emulator, so I don't really know the optimal settings...I think it works best with Radeon graphic cards using the CRT_EMU and/or SwitchRes programs along with WinXP I believe. Hopefully the community can delve into this other Emu and compare results.
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    Ah...someone has been on the Arcadecontrols.com forums I see! I've been following the developments of groovyMame for the past few months. I definitely caught the post mentioning the "-frame_delay" option and it sounds very intriguing. I haven't spent too much time with the emulator, so I don't really know the optimal settings...I think it works best with Radeon graphic cards using the CRT_EMU and/or SwitchRes programs along with WinXP I believe. Hopefully the community can delve into this other Emu and compare results.

    Ha! Yep! I've been fooling around with it for a while and its really good, imo. I set the framdelay to 1 and the apparent (subjective mind you) input lag is very low, especially in combination with 1000hz setting on my stick. Been testing with a lot of very input lag sensitive stuff like super turbo and many shmups.

    Its great, too, because unlike shmupmame, you can access the entire mame library. The ati support is much better than its nvidia support, right now, but I know its nvidia support is being worked on.

    -Jim

  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    papasi, when you did you "regular" MAME measurements, can you tell us what version of MAME and what video settings you used, including whether v-sync, triple buffering, etc. were on / off?

    Thanks,
    Jim
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    i downloaded the latest mame 0149, everything is default.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    Thanks. I believe stock, MAME does not use v-sync or triple buffering but DOES use d3d / post-processing filter instead of directdraw / no filter. I think this (d3d + filter) is laggier than directdraw / no filter.

    -Jim
  • undamnedundamned Wake up! Time to die! Joined: Posts: 1,687
    Update: After testing various joysticks, it seems "so far" that this particular USB poll rate program only recognizes Playstation 2/3 joysticks and PSX adapters. When utilizing a 360 stick, the program does not seem to recognize the stick under the menu as "HID Compliant Game Controller."
    Yeah, 360 controllers use a "Vendor Specific" device class (FFh). Sounds like that program will handle any HID device (class 03h). Unfortunately, even if the author of that program wanted to make an exception in order to support 360 controllers by allowing vendor specific devices, there's really no general way to be guaranteed that it's a 360 controller and not some other crazy vendor specific device. With UD-CPS2, I am able to make the assumption that people aren't plugging in a USB coffee pot, so when I see a device class of FFh, I assume it's a 360 controller.
    -ud
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    undamned wrote: »
    With UD-CPS2, I am able to make the assumption that people aren't plugging in a USB coffee pot
    -ud

    Coffee pot Latte setting Pro at ST.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • 7 5 07 5 0 Joined: Posts: 463
    Training mode is buggy as hell. XD I went to jump in combo with dictator and the dummy character flew off without a single hit to the floor a couple times. Reminds a lot of CCCv2 ST. Weird/funny stuff.

    The cheats need a major update. Other than that great stuff.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    7 5 0 wrote: »
    Training mode is buggy as hell. XD I went to jump in combo with dictator and the dummy character flew off without a single hit to the floor a couple times. Reminds a lot of CCCv2 ST. Weird/funny stuff.

    The cheats need a major update. Other than that great stuff.

    If that bothers you, don't use the "training mode" cheat, instead, use the "infinite p2 life" cheat and bind the "toggle cheat" shortcut (default is F6) to your 7th or 8th buttons on your joystick.

    Double tap the toggle cheat button when the dummy's health is down to 50%.

    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • 7 5 07 5 0 Joined: Posts: 463
    I have to agree with James chen on your sig. There is something special with ST on a cab. Nostalgia factor.
    I was drinking my ass off at NL just past friday with damdai and a handful of players. Fun times every friday.
    I still need to master sanwas though.
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    Interesting GroovyMAME testing results!!:

    http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133194.0.html

    Scroll down to Calamity's post towards the bottom.

    -Jim
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    edited July 2013
    jdubs wrote: »
    Interesting GroovyMAME testing results!!:

    http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133194.0.html

    Scroll down to Calamity's post towards the bottom.

    -Jim
    Dude... I can't thank you enough. I noticed I was having a weird time playing in Linux, and this link has confirmed why. Im also feeling some delay with ZSNES, which also uses SDL, IIRC. I'm currently playing Super Metroid a few times so as to learn the maps and eventually try some speed runs, but the commands are a bit strict*, Square gate screws my precision and there's input latency on top of all that.

    *wall jumps are very important in that game for speed, and if you ever reach down or up microswitches while doing them, spin jumps are disabled, wall jumps become impossible, and you fall all the way back to the bottom.

    Edit: if that (currently) last post is right, I will also be able to increase the USB poll rate in Windows XP, which I thought was impossible without major trouble, i.e., learning win32 and doing it myself.
  • jdubsjdubs Joined: Posts: 139
    Absolutely! Calamity's testing shows .65 frames of incremental lag over the cps2 hardware. That is pretty phenomenal! I've done the usb polling rate tweak and it seems to further help. At that point we are likely hovering RIGHT ON TOP of the hardware.

    -Jim
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