Honda thread

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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Had it happen once more.

    This time also while throwing into the corner.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
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  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Have you tried unfreezing it by doing a special attack or something? Guile's throw glitch in WW could be unfrozen by doing a Flash Kick. Try Headbutt or Sumo Splash next time you're frozen.
  • DANZANDANZAN NO SQUIGGERINO Joined: Posts: 6,560
    I want to see somebody pull that stuff off in a tournament , would be great.
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  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    ExposedD wrote: »
    I want to see somebody pull that stuff off in a tournament , would be great.

    It doesn't work on Japanese or American boards so you're probably never going to see that. :P

    I'll try doing a headbutt/splash next time it happens on GGPO.
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  • sarousarou Joined: Posts: 16
    edited November 2013
    Happened to me long time ago on GGPO too. I can't remember all the details but it was just a midscreen honda backthrow. Funny because I thought it was just some emulation issue or something because I hadn't heard of it since lol.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    So honda Bearhug.

    Is there a list of how the crossup after works against different characters ?

    Some seem lag in the air longer than others so the crossup will whiff.
    Wheter it crosses up or not seems to also depend on what side you are on.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Also is there a better crossup combo for O.Honda than:

    xup j.mk - st.mp - cr.lp - hands ?
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • hanasuhanasu Joined: Posts: 130
    Maybe try checking the o.honda videos here: http://www.strevival.com/yt/
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    So am I crazy, or can Honda not perform a Sumo Smash on CPS1 SF2 charging downback to upback (need to end the special going straight neutral up)? Works on Super and ST but not HF (at least not on XBL HF). Weirdness.
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    So am I crazy, or can Honda not perform a Sumo Smash on CPS1 SF2 charging downback to upback (need to end the special going straight neutral up)? Works on Super and ST but not HF (at least not on XBL HF). Weirdness.

    I think he only got that move in HF, not CE or WW. It's done by pressing the kick at neutral before going up.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    edited January 2014
    Different. I'll give that a try. Don't know how I played Honda before ST. CPS1 Honda sucks so much in comparison. No headbutt or sumo smash knockdown. All he (HF Honda) has is that HK Sumo Smash that hits on the way up... which is nice but no where near as important as HHS that move forward and ochio.
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    Different. I'll give that a try. Don't know how I played Honda before ST. CPS1 Honda sucks so much in comparison. No headbutt or sumo smash knockdown. All he (HF Honda) has is that HK Sumo Smash that hits on the way up... which is nice but no where near as important as HHS that move forward and ochio.

    I like Super Honda aka O.Honda. He's just a very different animal, especially with his lack of floaty fierce. You need ridiculous reactions to be able to reliably nj.mk over fireballs.

    It's not so much that CPS-1 Honda sucks, it's more like everyone else is better. You think fighting fireball characters in ST is bad, try doing that shit against WW Guile, CE Ryu/Dhalsim/Sagat, or HF (anyone with fireball).
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    I get ya. I cut my teeth on HF and played O.Honda a little when I first started playing ST on GGPO in preparation for HDR.
    eltrouble wrote: »
    It's not so much that CPS-1 Honda sucks, it's more like everyone else is better. You think fighting fireball characters in ST is bad, try doing that shit against WW Guile, CE Ryu/Dhalsim/Sagat, or HF (anyone with fireball).

    Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

    I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    I've seen that before, but the WW Guile jab re-dizzy is a lot harder to set up than it sounds.
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  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    Shari wrote: »
    So honda Bearhug.

    Is there a list of how the crossup after works against different characters ?

    Some seem lag in the air longer than others so the crossup will whiff.
    Wheter it crosses up or not seems to also depend on what side you are on.

    Have you had any luck figuring this out with consistency? I know SOME of it might just be hitbox-related with certain characters, for example the crossup seems to always whiff on Ryu. But for characters I can cross-up with d+mk following a fierce grab, I still cannot be 100% sure they will actually get crossed up. Sometimes you land in the front anyway. That isn't a horrible thing, but if I KNOW I'm going to land in the front, would prefer to use j.HK.

  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    fffffff wrote: »
    Shari wrote: »
    So honda Bearhug.

    Is there a list of how the crossup after works against different characters ?

    Some seem lag in the air longer than others so the crossup will whiff.
    Wheter it crosses up or not seems to also depend on what side you are on.

    Have you had any luck figuring this out with consistency? I know SOME of it might just be hitbox-related with certain characters, for example the crossup seems to always whiff on Ryu. But for characters I can cross-up with d+mk following a fierce grab, I still cannot be 100% sure they will actually get crossed up. Sometimes you land in the front anyway. That isn't a horrible thing, but if I KNOW I'm going to land in the front, would prefer to use j.HK.

    It has to do with when they pop out.
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  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    Didn't even consider that, thanks!
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    eltrouble wrote: »
    Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

    I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.

    Wait, WW Guile's Stun/Restun combo is jab jab jab jab jab jab jab jab? HOLY SHIT, I gotta crack out Anniversary edition and pull that shit!
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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    eltrouble wrote: »
    Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

    I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.

    Wait, WW Guile's Stun/Restun combo is jab jab jab jab jab jab jab jab? HOLY SHIT, I gotta crack out Anniversary edition and pull that shit!

    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I believe several other WW characters also have a re-dizzy. I know Chun can do it with her standard jump-in, st.str, cr.RH, and shotos often do it with jumping RH, st.fierce xx hadouken.

    I suppose Honda has one too.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    In a game where you can cps-1 chain any normal into another, pretty much everyone has a redizzy combo. I think HF is the only one with a little more restrictions, so it makes harder for the rest of the case (unless you're Dictator)
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    Pretty sure HF bison lost all his combo goodies from CE. HF Bison is easily the worst version of his character.
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    Whoops. Got the game mixed up. I meant CE Dictator. Everyone had a dizzy and re-dizzy in WW, but since that sort of stuff got toned down in general, it highlights Dictator's strength in that he can do it off of a scissor kick on hit OR on block.
  • vandarkholmevandarkholme Joined: Posts: 388
    I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?
    Fierce and Roundhouse holds (bear hug and knees) can be followed by safe jumps and baits, so they often allow you to glue onto the enemy and land more damage over time. This is specially true midscreen, where oichio allows the player to escape. Shogatsu is knows for his nasty throw loops and mix-ups, for example.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    To be fair though, O.Honda ONLY has tick throw setups with no ochio :P

    You can also do ambiguous and delayed crossups after a fierce grab. It's quite good for repeat damage setups, and if need be, you can always end it with an ochio.
  • James_OJames_O Joined: Posts: 14
    Honda's pressure after grabs is so great it always seems more worth it to me to grab first, unless you are worried about getting thrown yourself - Honda's normal throw range is better than a lot of characters, though. Every character can be pressured in some fashion after a fierce grab (some easier than others), so you could always tick into ochio or bait a reversal after already doing the fierce grab damage.

    His normal strong throw is also integral for tossing opponents into the corner and maintaining pressure.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    The only issue is that Honda's walk speed is so bad, it tends to downplay how good his throw range is. It's similar in the way that Chun and Vega have decent and bad throw ranges respectively, but their walk speed tends to make up for that weakness.

    So it's also an element of knowing the mind games around the throw. How to bait out certain attacks, whiff punish it, preemptively throw out a sweep, how to train your opponent to block in order to open them up for that throw, etc... The metagame around this stuff is pretty complex beyond just examining throw ranges.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    edited March 2014
    I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?

    Like others have mentioned, Honda has amazing options off his HP/HK throws. If the Honda player catches Vega, Balrog, Guile, or Deejay (super non-withstanding for the last three) near midscreen with ether throw the round is likely over. Those throws will also give Chun, Bison, and Dhalsim a really tough time too.

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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    Is it just me or does every decent shoto player now have jump in/OS down pat? Makes the match 10x harder :/ Life is hard for the sumo enough as it is.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    Is it just me or does every decent shoto player now have jump in/OS down pat? Makes the match 10x harder :/ Life is hard for the sumo enough as it is.

    Maybe not ALL of them, but a good chunk of them. It's not all that difficult to do given that Honda's reversals aren't even that fast.

    The worst part is that you don't even need to do them. I never jump at Honda on his wakeup. Just two fireballs in his face is enough to push him away, build meter, and do chip damage.
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    I was looking at the Honda freeze throws.. wow crazy stuff. the weirdest thing I have ever experienced in ST ( all arcade) was Honda vs Honda match and I was being throw with mp and I was able to oichio out of the throw. Not sure how I was able to do this but I was only ever able to do it again once. I also saw on ggpo Claw throw Honda out of the first few frames of the oichio. I have this recorded but not sure how to post it here.
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  • SesshomaruSesshomaru Joined: Posts: 582
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    Ehonda wrote: »
    I was looking at the Honda freeze throws.. wow crazy stuff. the weirdest thing I have ever experienced in ST ( all arcade) was Honda vs Honda match and I was being throw with mp and I was able to oichio out of the throw. Not sure how I was able to do this but I was only ever able to do it again once. I also saw on ggpo Claw throw Honda out of the first few frames of the oichio. I have this recorded but not sure how to post it here.

    Those aren't possible . Throws are 0-frame startups, so there is nothing you can do once the throw animation itself starts. You're probably just seeing GGPO rollback. That doesn't happen offline.
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    edited July 2015
    I recently did some work in the Honda ST wiki for character matchups. Anyone care to comment? All my edits are under "x64" (grumble grumble wish I could change username grumble). Keep in mind most of the matchup stuff was blank when I started.

    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/E._Honda_(ST)
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    Nice! Glad to see someone still putting in work into the wiki. I'll check it out.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,720
    edited July 2015
    I recently did some work in the Honda ST wiki for character matchups. Anyone care to comment? All my edits are under "x64" (grumble grumble wish I could change username grumble). Keep in mind most of the matchup stuff was blank when I started.

    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/E._Honda_(ST)

    Overall, pretty good writeup! But in the vs. Blanka section, shouldn't it be that Blanka uses neutral jump LK a lot? I see them using that much more than neutral jab.

    I really outta sit down one of these days and pen out the details of Sim v. Honda. I've pretty much got that matchup nailed perfect down to each situational counter.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,193
    eltrouble wrote: »
    Overall, pretty good writeup! But in the vs. Blanka section, shouldn't it be that Blanka uses neutral jump LK a lot? I see them using that much more than neutral jab.

    I really outta sit down one of these days and pen out the details of Sim v. Honda. I've pretty much got that matchup nailed perfect down to each situational counter.

    Typo. Fixed lol. I personally think I have the Honda v Sim down pretty well myself. We should meet up on fightcade sometime. So rare to fight a good sim.

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