Rose USF4 change list discussion

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  • Wedge_AntillesWedge_Antilles I like cats. Joined: Posts: 489
    Oh yeah I know, that's fine though. Doing that combo into super is pointless anyways, the added scaling from the reflect makes the damage increase marginal if any. EX SS is exactly what you would want to combo into, since it gives you a one meter punish that does 254/460 damage/stun. Means people actually have some reason to be worried about getting hit by Rose now.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,421 mod
    @Sh0guni‌ can you test if stuff that works on the PC Mod works in the actual game? I want to know if stuff I'm playing around with in the mod is legit.


    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
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  • Zio_NameZio_Name Joined: Posts: 342
    Really digging the definitive definitive definitive (until USFIV v2015 , of course) Rose. Spiral Juggle is awesome.
  • Wedge_AntillesWedge_Antilles I like cats. Joined: Posts: 489
    edited May 2014
    d3v wrote: »
    @Sh0guni‌ can you test if stuff that works on the PC Mod works in the actual game? I want to know if stuff I'm playing around with in the mod is legit.

    Rose has always been able to do EX spark FADC into U1 for more damage at any range, so there's no point to that combo. Red focus in general isn't going to be of much use to her, which is fine.

    And on a technical note, the PC mod is not accurate for Rose, because you can't hit a red focus cancel from cl. hk (or any of her normals I believe), which was clearly done in her official change video. But she has no reason to ever actually do that anyways, so whatever.
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  • Kaiten92Kaiten92 Well-Known Pervert Joined: Posts: 12,455
    Any damage estimate on the stHP RFADC Ultra 2 > stHP xx HP Soul Reflect > EX Spiral?

    Looks pretty but the damage and health bars werent visible and just wondering if it's a viable combo or just for show
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,421 mod
    Kaiten92 wrote: »
    Any damage estimate on the stHP RFADC Ultra 2 > stHP xx HP Soul Reflect > EX Spiral?

    Looks pretty but the damage and health bars werent visible and just wondering if it's a viable combo or just for show
    Tried to test, but sr.HP, Red Focus doesn't combo in the mod for AEPC.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
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    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
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  • Wedge_AntillesWedge_Antilles I like cats. Joined: Posts: 489
    edited May 2014
    The PC mod doesn't have the SS juggle either, but that was trivial to add.

    Just checked and you CAN combo from a CH HP into red-focus in the pc mod, so calculating out the CH damage bonus it does 422/520 damage/stun (although I think some of the RFADC numbers are slightly off). For comparison's sake you can simply do st.hp xx spark FADC U2 (walk forward for both hits) > st. hp xx hp reflect > EX SS and it did 475/470 damage/stun for a meter less (or 469/500 if you hit the hp between the orbs, which is harder to time right). Didn't use st. hk til I remembered I could forward dash to not get soul piede, durp. So optimal punish for using U2 like that is st. hk xx spark FADC U2 > forward dash > st. hk xx hp reflect > EX SS for 485/500, for one less meter than RFADC (or 505/550 with EX spark). I don't think you're ever in range for a reflect followup if you use mk slide after the U2 at midscreen.

    Also st. hp(or hk) xx spark FADC st. hp xx HP reflect > EX SS is a new combo now that does 355(365)/600. Relevant because cr. hp is 10 more damage but 50 less stun than st. hp, which used to be the best option off FADC.

    Also not likely to ever land it, but ch st. hk > cr. hp xx EX spark FADC st. hp xx hp reflect > EX SS did 463/780, lol. I think that's max stun other than a CH jump in HK into st.hp/st.hk, which would be 50 more stun.
    Post edited by Wedge_Antilles on
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  • AckuAcku Representing Rose Joined: Posts: 857
    My biggest problem will be to stop using EX Spiral as a way to stop pressure or throws. That usually worked pretty well, it only lose to people who block.
    And against real smart players who use quick meaties or delayed throws/attacks with long actions frames. But I did not meet that many so I was pretty happy with the slow and unreliable reversal she had.

    Guess I'll tech and backdash even more
  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 2,351
    I can mod my own USF4 I will do it
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  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Red Focus Cancel is 100% totally useless with Rose.

    Why would you ever do it? She already can combo C.HP or Ultra 2 from Jab Spark FADCs...

    She can already EX Spark FADC Ultra 1...

    Or in the corner EX Spark xx FA Level 2 for crumple...

    Each of those are easier to combo into than her focus...

    Esp now that you can C.LK, C.MP, (or CS.MK, C.MP) xx Jab Spark, FADC, Fierce, Reflect, Spiral.

    The buff to EX spiral in footsies >>>>>> being able to use it to reversal throws.
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  • AckuAcku Representing Rose Joined: Posts: 857
    Updated the OP with latest data
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,069
    Found it interesting that you could do f:hk: under Elena's :hk: rhino horn
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • AckuAcku Representing Rose Joined: Posts: 857
    Went 1000+ pp/bp with 90% win rate in 2 hours. She is good.
    Noticed that not a lot of people use the new features yet, and was very happy that no good players used Rolento because I don't know how to punish.

    Also incidentally hit someone in the air with a fireball, then juggle with a normal. Is this new?
  • xPlasmaxPlasma Joined: Posts: 218
    Cr.LP, Cr.LP, Cr.LK, Cr.MP, SPIRAL ARROW WIFF, GET PUNISHED, LOSE GAME, LOSE EVO, LOSE AT LIFE.

    I thought they fixed this!? D:
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,069
    Nah I noticed that as well. Not much has really changed with her in my opinion. The damage boost and the dash recovery seem to be the biggest changes.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 2,351
    Acku wrote: »
    Went 1000+ pp/bp with 90% win rate in 2 hours. She is good.
    Noticed that not a lot of people use the new features yet, and was very happy that no good players used Rolento because I don't know how to punish.

    Also incidentally hit someone in the air with a fireball, then juggle with a normal. Is this new?

    video ? or can you tell me exactly what you did ?
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  • AckuAcku Representing Rose Joined: Posts: 857
    xero15 wrote: »
    Nah I noticed that as well. Not much has really changed with her in my opinion. The damage boost and the dash recovery seem to be the biggest changes.

    Damage boost is good, the extra stun on EX drill is great.
    Her FADC combos are actually a lot more interesting now due to them being easier and more damaging. You can go into cr.hp xx drill after FADC without it being a one frame-link. This hurts big time. When using U1 it also becomes a good option to do EX spark FADC U1, its actually quite easy now.

    Her cr.hp xx reflect into ex spiral is also a great punish with good stun, using a single meter. In the corner however I prefer reflect into ST as it is free and you can crossup anyway after it

  • AckuAcku Representing Rose Joined: Posts: 857
    edited June 2014
    cerberusfx wrote: »
    Acku wrote: »
    Went 1000+ pp/bp with 90% win rate in 2 hours. She is good.
    Noticed that not a lot of people use the new features yet, and was very happy that no good players used Rolento because I don't know how to punish.

    Also incidentally hit someone in the air with a fireball, then juggle with a normal. Is this new?

    video ? or can you tell me exactly what you did ?

    I hope it wasn't a fluke or misunderstanding but I recall hitting them during their jump with spark and then juggling them with some medium kick.
    I checked whether fireball itself now has more juggle potential (hp reflect into fireball at the corner) but that is not the case (EX fireball can but is not damaging at all)

    Could be a counterhit thing, like deejays fierce punch causing juggles when used as antiair

    EDIT: was probably a post-KO hit
    Post edited by Acku on
  • Maria CroftMaria Croft Joined: Posts: 921
    I absolutely love using UW with Rose.
    I haven't actually needed to use U1 yet, but I did already use U2 to save myself against a Hugo who had me cornered. Without UW I would have gone with U1 and would have been rather helpless in that situation.
  • AckuAcku Representing Rose Joined: Posts: 857
    I absolutely love using UW with Rose.
    I haven't actually needed to use U1 yet, but I did already use U2 to save myself against a Hugo who had me cornered. Without UW I would have gone with U1 and would have been rather helpless in that situation.

    Ye, but you cant look at it as an Ultra but more like a damaging special. I laned U1 from UW when I was at half life and couldn't even see their health go down :)
  • CircleWaveCircleWave Joined: Posts: 1
    Hello fellow Rose players,

    I didn't have a chance to test this, but I was at a buddy's house playing Ultra, a situation came up:

    Rose ex-Spiral vs. Gouken ex-Tatsu

    What I believed was Tatsu's first hit will whiff due to ex-spiral invincibility, but it hit ex-spiral. I got skeptical of how invincible ex-Spiral is.
    It could be that ex-Tatsu hit is more active but I doubt it.

    Has someone has a chance to test ex-spiral invincibility?
  • HashHash Running in the 90's Joined: Posts: 358
    CircleWave wrote: »
    Has someone has a chance to test ex-spiral invincibility?

    You can OS ex spiral against Honda's ex headbutt on wakeup and spiral will win every time. Its invincible.
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,069
    Acku wrote: »
    Damage boost is good, the extra stun on EX drill is great.
    Her FADC combos are actually a lot more interesting now due to them being easier and more damaging. You can go into cr.hp xx drill after FADC without it being a one frame-link. This hurts big time. When using U1 it also becomes a good option to do EX spark FADC U1, its actually quite easy now.

    Her cr.hp xx reflect into ex spiral is also a great punish with good stun, using a single meter. In the corner however I prefer reflect into ST as it is free and you can crossup anyway after it

    Yeah I knew about all that but thats not too big of a change if you were already hitting them consistently before. The juggle is meh in my opinion. I was wanting them to to fix her fireballs which are still too slow on startup and recovery. That and allow U1 to grab from a juggle state.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • KazDa973KazDa973 Joined: Posts: 348
    xero15 wrote: »
    Acku wrote: »
    Damage boIost is good, the extra stun on EX drill is great.
    Her FADC combos are actually a lot more interesting now due to them being easier and more damaging. You can go into cr.hp xx drill after FADC without it being a one frame-link. This hurts big time. When using U1 it also becomes a good option to do EX spark FADC U1, its actually quite easy now.

    Her cr.hp xx reflect into ex spiral is also a great punish with good stun, using a single meter. In the corner however I prefer reflect into ST as it is free and you can crossup anyway after it

    Yeah I knew about all that but thats not too big of a change if you were already hitting them consistently before. The juggle is meh in my opinion. I was wanting them to to fix her fireballs which are still too slow on startup and recovery. That and allow U1 to grab from a juggle state.

    Thats kind of how i felt about that juggle..it was a novelty but i have applied it to my gameplay yet so maybe there's more to it. I do think a faster cr.mk and mk.sspiral working in combos would have been much more useful buffs.

    That dash buff is one of the best things she received that coupled with the improved damage make fadc combos more appealing.
  • Vince34Vince34 Joined: Posts: 361
    EX Spiral is nice, i can hit things and punish things that never ever worked before. Sadly tho everyone knows they can throw you out of it so wake up game seems worse to me now even with delayed. People just stand there and wait, getting lots of time outs as well.

    U1 faster is nice, been testing it more and lands better.

    W is ok, may use it specific match up only.

    Damage output is great which helps a ton now.

    Feel some bad match ups got worse tho, specially Balrog.

    Is it me or is Yun AE Yun all over again, only time i get to punish anything was a ex spiral. Just seemed he was safe on everything on the ground again. And with red focus i was dead before i got a hit in on second rounds with his massive damage combos.

    Used red focus a few times just to test. only time it worked was someone who was just mashing combos and it stuff it. Everyone else just stuffed it.
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,069
    KazDa973 wrote: »

    Thats kind of how i felt about that juggle..it was a novelty but i have applied it to my gameplay yet so maybe there's more to it. I do think a faster cr.mk and mk.sspiral working in combos would have been much more useful buffs.

    That dash buff is one of the best things she received that coupled with the improved damage make fadc combos more appealing.

    I agree with the dash change that is an improvement overall. You'll never hear complain about more damage either. I just feel like they could have given her some buffs she really needed but I'm content with what she has. The juggle isn't all that useful. Comboing into it midscreen requires a bar and the only time I really see that happening is from FADC combos. I just don't think it's worth that extra meter that still allows them to quick get up.

    They definitely should have buffed her c:mk:, focus attack, fireball startup/recovery, and added thay juggle property to U1. Oh well it is what it is now we train.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • loopizloopiz Joined: Posts: 283 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    haha eventscrubs getting bodied by average Rose players online and putting her #1 on day one.
    she's better than previous iterations, but she's a long shot from #1...

    i still can't find a way out against Seth, but i'm not comfortable with delayed wake-up yet.

    anyone knows what's good for punishing rolento balls ? a scrub spammed it in my guard but i couldn't find anything reliable...
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  • AckuAcku Representing Rose Joined: Posts: 857
    loopiz wrote: »
    haha eventscrubs getting bodied by average Rose players online and putting her #1 on day one.
    she's better than previous iterations, but she's a long shot from #1...

    It's also caused by Rose players being so damn strong, persistent and consistent ;) I played her for so long that I know every frame she has, and every matchup by heart except for the new chars now. If you stick with that then your win rate against people switching chars, trying out new tech or new chars is naturally a lot higher. Especially now that her BnB's are buffed, and FADCS are easier, so you can still play the old way but be better anyway.
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,069
    Agreed
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • Wedge_AntillesWedge_Antilles I like cats. Joined: Posts: 489
    edited June 2014
    Wooooow FilipinoMan was killin' it with Rose last night. Fireball traps into U1 at 3/4 screen, it's so gooood now. Only problem is Gief is ridiculous. T. Hawk's Condor Spire buffs are nothing compared to the monster lp greenhand looks like now. And Rose vs Gief specifically Soul Spiral (still?) had all kinds of problems connecting on him. I always counterpicked against Gief so I don't know that matchup, but it was ugly sometimes.
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  • Doctrine DarkDoctrine Dark Giving your waifu the pipeu Joined: Posts: 6,982
    Really having fun with Ultra Rose. I haven't used Red Focus or Delayed Wake-Up in my matches all that much, so I need to start experimenting with them more. Still having trouble with Boxer. Rolento's kinda annoying to me, too--but I need to just fight him more. His rolling attack was confusing the shit outta me because I couldn't stop it. Just gotta play more!
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  • AckuAcku Representing Rose Joined: Posts: 857
    Made a video of the most important changes for combos:
  • Wedge_AntillesWedge_Antilles I like cats. Joined: Posts: 489
    Yeah, was kinda sad to see the lk spiral buff was really VERY minor. I don't have Ultra (PC), but I'm assuming they didn't secretly add a juggle point to Soul Throw so some variation of HP Reflect > Spiral > Soul Throw is possible (would probably need Orbs to actually juggle enough, but still). I think I'm gonna go mod that onto my ghetto Ultra version just for fun to see if it works.
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,069
    edited June 2014
    Spiral knocks down too fast to get that to connect without orbs


    I went back and tested again. Soul throw won't connect after orbs if you connect with soul spiral. I distinctly remember being able to soul throw off orbs after certain drill confirms so maybe this was changed since last I played back in '10. Anyways I was trying to do :hp: reflect activate orbs :lk: soul drill then soul throw but no version of soul throw connected. I'm assuming the drill takes away the juggle properties of the orbs?
    Post edited by xero15 on
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • KabzzzyKabzzzy Joined: Posts: 8
    loopiz wrote: »
    haha eventscrubs getting bodied by average Rose players online and putting her #1 on day one.
    she's better than previous iterations, but she's a long shot from #1...

    She's moved down to 8th rather quickly lol. I completely agree, she's a lot better but not top tier better. Hopefully this will stop any bandwagoners now; I like that Rose players generally seem to have great character loyalty.
  • The-OlympianThe-Olympian 4 the Glory of Gaea Joined: Posts: 2,134
    What have they done to ultra 2 :(

    Did they lower the hit stun ? Omg
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  • Vince34Vince34 Joined: Posts: 361
    I notice that U1 is a much better choice for certain match ups now. Specially on Honda, Hugo and Guy.

    Hugo just a LP spark, he either gets hit from the spark or in a raw U1, i love it.

    Hondas who are jump happy and zoned out, U1 will snag them if they jump Sparks as well.

    Still testing on guy, but catching him a lot more with U1 as well.


    EX Spiral is amazing now i got to test more, its stuffing things that would just beat it out before. Juris Dives, Guys Slides, Jump ins etc.. Simple change like that is helping so much now.

    Did the change the range on standing far HP? seems like the hit box hits a bit further now and works as a nice trap throwing a spark and then HP if certain chars jump it, but get trades of it specially with hugo.
  • Kaiten92Kaiten92 Well-Known Pervert Joined: Posts: 12,455
    Far HP seems to have a ridiculous vertical hitbox. Not sure if it was like that in Ultra but I hit a Yun with it and was super surprised at how it hit.

    The distance increase on LK Spiral isnt that great but ever since I heard it, I saw it as a way to give her a meterless jump-in BnB which it does actually connect now. Im fine with it not working after CrLP, CrLP, CrLK, CrMP.
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  • herpderpherpderp Joined: Posts: 3
    did they do something with cr. MP xx L Soul Spark? The timing seems pretty strict compared to before.
  • KabzzzyKabzzzy Joined: Posts: 8
    edited June 2014
    What have they done to ultra 2 :(

    Did they lower the hit stun ? Omg

    I think they actually increased it, because you can now hit both orbs just walking forward. Couldn't do that in AE2012 if I'm not mistaken. Only change I've noticed is the slight extra recovery.
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