Alpha 3: Q & A

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  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Ok, so here's a little bit more info on V-Cammy's counter moves.

    This move is so freaking worthless it's incredible. Here are the stipulations for a catch:

    1) Has the be an overhead (jump-in or command normal)
    2) Can NOT be a special move (has to be a normal)
    3) Has to hit in the right spot depending on the strength of the button pressed!
    4) She will not turn around if the opponent crosses up (she will catch but then the follow up totally whiffs)

    Now, regarding (3):
    - The JP strength will only catch attacks that are high in the air, like a very early jump JP/SK (head level).
    - The SP strength will only catch attacks that are about head-to waist high (basically mid)
    - The FP strength will only catch atacks that are very deep, which is roughly knee-high and lower

    Lastly, she does different things depending on the strength you used.
    - JP will cause her to do a Cannon Spike (dp+K move)
    - SP will cause her to do a close FP (b+FP in V) then a far FP which will launch the opponent horizontally across the screen
    - FP will cause her to do a c.RH and juggle with a close RH (b+RH in V) which will launch the opponent almost vertically

    So yeah, it's totally worthless. It doesn't beat crossups, it doesn't beat special moves, it has a lot of start-up, and the opponent has to hit you in the right spot on Cammy's hitbox, and even when it does hit it's pretty weak.
    Let's play.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    CPU Guy did a proxy cancel on me today. Didn't know it even knew what one was.
    Or is that how they were discovered in the first place?
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'm a fucking useless scrub when it comes to R-mika

    I have a few very basic (for you lot here) questions..

    -What is hewr best cross-up?

    -What are her good basic combos?

    -What can i link to supers?

    -Is there anythin I should watch out for?

    -Can i have Transcripts for her VCs please?

    Thanks for that...
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    I cannot figure out a consistent AA for Rose after activation.

    I have set Dummy Gief splash over and over (kaillera? lol), I activate and i've tried qcb+mp, cr.fp, qcf+k nothing seems to work well. =(
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I don't think she has a reliable AA VC to be honest.
    Those reflect moves come out too slowly.
    You can maybe soul spiral them if they're jumping from farther away.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    2 things:

    1. Jab reflect (qcb+p) works best, but you have to activate super-late. Which is OK because:

    2. Rose's startup time for VC activation is shorter than everyone else's. So something that may work with another character has to be done quicker with Rose, because the clock is already ticking. Important because:

    3. You can do move inputs while the screen is still frozen, and they will still register. So if you use the same timing as with another character, you've lost time, and the move won't come out ASAP, like it needs to.

    Also helps to crouch before you activate, and if you wait until the last second, so they're low to the ground.

    I don't know if you can VC through Akuma's divekick or Dhalsim's drills, I probably just haven't had enough practice as of late.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    2 things:

    1. Jab reflect (qcb+p) works best, but you have to activate super-late. Which is OK because:

    2. Rose's startup time for VC activation is shorter than everyone else's. So something that may work with another character has to be done quicker with Rose, because the clock is already ticking. Important because:

    3. You can do move inputs while the screen is still frozen, and they will still register. So if you use the same timing as with another character, you've lost time, and the move won't come out ASAP, like it needs to.

    Also helps to crouch before you activate, and if you wait until the last second, so they're low to the ground.

    I don't know if you can VC through Akuma's divekick or Dhalsim's drills, I probably just haven't had enough practice as of late.

    ok cool. is jab reflect still off VC1 though?
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    It sorta depends on what combos you wanna do, but for the most part the kind of activation doesn't matter until you get to the corner.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    the only one I got down is the b+fp, qcf+mk
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • Cavern mantisCavern mantis frame eater Joined: Posts: 41
    I've got a question about invincibility frames at super activation in A/Z mode.
    Is there a same generic number of frames for each super for every character according to the level?or does it vary according to the super?
    "you gotta hold that sucker down"
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Re: Rose.

    Eh, my opinion doesn't change. Jab Reflect is good for when you're either laggy or your timing is off. But if your timing is spot-on, then Strong Reflect hits faster and sooner vertically -- larger vertical hitbox, and hits before opponent's unfreeze -- and it combos just as easily.

    The problem with activating early and doing an early JP-Reflect is that the opponent has the opportunity to unfreeze and activate, which means they can blow-through your Reflect. But if you activate into SP-Reflect right when they are in range, then the Reflect should hit them before they unfreeze.

    The transition from a Reflect to the regular [b+FP, whiff Drill] is simple since you just need to treat the Reflect as if it were a b+FP (whiff SK-Drill).
    Let's play.
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I concede that SP reflect may be better, but I'm an old man, and am set in my ways.

    Jab reflect is actually a little faster, but since they may have to fall into the Jab one a bit, the timing is probably about the same. They both work best if you activate late, but the Strong version is almost-competent anti-air outside of V-ISM, so it gives you a bit of a wider window that way.

    I'm pretty sure Jab would be better vs deep attacks, and worse vs Akuma/Dhalsim/Gen/Adon's divekicks.




    Those Japanese players need to start hocking some Zero 3 DVDs through SRK, so we western barbarians can get our hands on them...
  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    After having time for some A3 again latly I still have probs with Charlie against Sak (can keep me away nicely with poking) and Cody (destroys completly my Sonic Boom and Corner Game). Anyone with some hints?
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 604
    Against Cody:

    Look for chances for him to block your crouching Forward so you can inflict guard damage. When closer, you can use a crouching Short-> crouching Forward sequence to pressure him. Use your superior range on your crouching kicks -- mainly your Forward but Roundhouse can also be used depending -- to punish whiffed pokes such as his standing Forward or crouching Strong and move in and poke as he's recovering. He'll be able to block, but the point is to score guard damage. Speaking of punishing whiffs, you might have noticed that smarter Cody players will use a spaced Short Ruffian Kick when you might be walking and simply standing. Expect this, and try to bait this and punish by either walking backwards out of its range and tripping Cody with a crouching Roundhouse as he recovers. Once Cody is knocked down, you can further work on his guard bar. As he gets up, jump in with a deep Roundhouse then follow with b+ Roundhouse as he's in block-stun for solid guard damage.

    When closer, Cody players might try the Crack Kick (t+Roundhouse thingy) in an attempt to sail over your low pokes and combo or throw you as they land. If you can anticipate this, make him land on your crouching Roundhouse for that all-important knock-down, then go for the guard damage sequence described above. Cody has poor cross-up abilites, so when you're very close and you anticipate a jump-in and are unable to use your crouching Fierce, you can walk towards him and throw (always in the direction closest the corner) him from behind as he lands.
    If Cody jumps from outside your crouching Fierce range, take a step back and make him block a crouching Forward as he lands.

    One more tip: at a medium distance, when you throw a Jab Sonic Boom, and the Cody player uses the dodge, follow the Boom in and make him block a crouching Forward. or Roundhouse
  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thx for the reply Middlekick, I'll try to incorporate more low forwards and take more GC attempts. At least I think I get something out of your hints, like I said thx.^^
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    There's good news and there's bad news.

    Good news is you can jump out of throws. You can also reversal them with a move that either has first-frame invulnerability or first-frame off-the-ground.

    Plus, you can get used to pressing the throw command and also pressing it at the right time, in order to tech/throw option select. Practice just standing and throwing over and over from a distance in training mode untill you get 100% whiffed throws (no whiff anything else). Also try setting the dummy to throw a fireball, block, then throw when you come out of blockstun.

    In the example of Ken jumping in with RH, you can hold up+back (or just up, if you have a good air game) to avoid getting thrown.

    As for teching, often times you will fail at a tech because you didnt press the buttons at the same time (direction + 2k or 2p, actually -- not 3p/k) or because you timed it wrong.

    Playing as Ken against the CPU AI or another opponent and trying to be very aggressive with throws may help a lot with timing and spacing. EG. playing as Ken yourself and learning him well might improve how you react to him when you're playing against him.

    The very basic of throw theory is that throws counter blocking, since you can't block throws. So in theory you would force them to block, or force them to assume they need to block, and then throw them while they are trying to block.

    Bad news is throws are designed to be good. If your opponent is in an advantegous position for a throw in the first place, you're already in a bad spot and will have to do some guessing.

    Let's take a look at some permutations after you block a j.RH:

    - They attack with a meaty punch
    If you jump > you get hit
    If you attack > you get hit
    If you throw > you get hit
    If you reveral > you beat their punch

    - They throw
    If you jump > you get away
    If you attack > you get thrown
    If you throw > you get a tech (meaning damage and a reset position)
    If you reversal > you beat their throw

    - They block/do nothing
    If you jump > you're in a vulnerable spot depending on direction and distance from corner
    If you attack > they block
    If you throw > could grab them, could whiff them, depends on distance
    If you reversal > you are in a very vulnerable position for big punishment

    Now, there's also the odd variable of the opponent putting you in blockstun, then using a high priority/invulnerable move like a DP that will stuff any of your actions other than block. But therein lies the psychic DP and it's very punishable if you do indeed block.

    Meanwhile, it's important to point out that in A3 there are two very important features to certain throws :

    1 ) Some throws are "Slam" throws and will damage you a lot reguardless of weather you tech or not.

    2 ) Against a lot of throws, teching will put you in a "reset" falling state where you fall on your feet -- much like getting hit out of the air by a normal move. You can't act but you're invulnerable untill you hit the ground. The importance of this is that characters with very good mix-ups or rushdown/pressure games are going to see this as an opportunity/advantage.

    Basically, while you're landing from a tech they get the drop on you. But again this just applies to some throws, not all.


    SO what's the solution?

    WELL, either don't allow yourself to be trapped in those throw situations in the first place, or take a guess and hope you're right.

    In the example of Ken's j.RH, your best option for avoiding a throw is to counter the j.RH -- if you don't, you're going to have to guess what to do next.

    [edit] There's some advanced stuff associated with this, involving option selects or vc activations, but ehhh... yeah..
    Sorry that I dig this old post out right now, but I need some serious help with throws (special throws). Xenozip I hope you can help me.

    I know the stuff you wrote about the normal throws. I know a Ken player and he's using the same tactic. I'm forced to jump back and stuff. It's sometimes a guessing game. I often get hit. I knew that I couldn't jab out.

    But this isn't the thing I'm asking for. What is with the special grabs? Like Gief's SPD?
    Can you do a jab. Wait til Geif recovers and then you do a 360 and again the opponent can't do nothing but jump? Or can the opponent for example jab me out of the 360? I did "testings" on my own. I set the Alpha collection dummy in A3 on cr.lp autofire. (I even set the speed on "normal" to avoid frame skipping. I heard that this can be a problem with exact timings.) Now let me explain you what I did. I jumped at Sakura and attacked with j.down mk landed did in combo timing the cr.lp (a 2 hit is displayed) now I wait til the cr.lp is recovered and do the SPD. The thing is that Sakura did cr.lp and is able to hit me out of the SPD. I did it again and again she beats me out of it.(after the cr.lp) But lets say 2 times out of 10 tries I could SPD her and she could not cr.lp me out.

    The thing is I had this discussion with someone and he said that Sakura (or in general all the charas with quick light normals.) can always jab out of the 360.(he said he tested it via emulator with macros.) And I'm totally not sure what to believe now, because I always thought you can only jump away or get thrown? And like I said, I tested it by myself in the trainingsmode today and it seemed possibil to get the right timing so Sakura had to get hit from the cr.lp and after it she could not stick the cr.lp out fast enough to stuff the 360 (ok, or do a invincible or air born move, like you said.)
    And the thing I'm cofused now. Can you jab out of the 360 if you already blocked a cr.lp before? Or can you again only jump out? Please somebody help.


    (I hope could explain the situation clear enough. Sorry if someone has a hard time to read my post. ^^)
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Different throws have different speeds. 'Gief's SPD starts up quicker than any other throw in the game, so he can SPD people in situations where another throw may be too slow.
    But this isn't the thing I'm asking for. What is with the special grabs? Like Gief's SPD?
    Can you do a jab. Wait til Geif recovers and then you do a 360 and again the opponent can't do nothing but jump? Or can the opponent for example jab me out of the 360?

    That I'm not sure about. I think there are times when all you can do is jump or get off of the ground/do something invincible, but I can't say 100%.
    I did "testings" on my own. I set the Alpha collection dummy in A3 on cr.lp autofire. (I even set the speed on "normal" to avoid frame skipping. I heard that this can be a problem with exact timings.) Now let me explain you what I did. I jumped at Sakura and attacked with j.down mk landed did in combo timing the cr.lp (a 2 hit is displayed) now I wait til the cr.lp is recovered and do the SPD. The thing is that Sakura did cr.lp and is able to hit me out of the SPD. I did it again and again she beats me out of it.(after the cr.lp) But lets say 2 times out of 10 tries I could SPD her and she could not cr.lp me out.

    The thing is I had this discussion with someone and he said that Sakura (or in general all the charas with quick light normals.) can always jab out of the 360.(he said he tested it via emulator with macros.) And I'm totally not sure what to believe now, because I always thought you can only jump away or get thrown? And like I said, I tested it by myself in the trainingsmode today and it seemed possibil to get the right timing so Sakura had to get hit from the cr.lp and after it she could not stick the cr.lp out fast enough to stuff the 360 (ok, or do a invincible or air born move, like you said.)
    And the thing I'm cofused now. Can you jab out of the 360 if you already blocked a cr.lp before? Or can you again only jump out? Please somebody help.


    (I hope could explain the situation clear enough. Sorry if someone has a hard time to read my post. ^^)

    The rapid fire test is sorta faulty, I think, especially if you're not using a macro. Rapid fire is basically just jamming on a button over and over, even if it's not a human player doing it. So it may be possible for there to be a gap in between button presses, which could screw things up.

    Likewise, if you're not doing the SPD at the first possible millisecond, your results could be off.

    A macro would be a better way to test it.

    I don't know- it takes a few frames to get off of the ground when you jump, so it makes sense that if you have a Jab that hits after 3 frames, that you could knock someone out of an SPD. However, there's an unthrowable period when you begin a jump, before you even get fully off of the ground. So it would make sense that you could jump, but not attack.

    I'll check the frame data in the Zero 3 book, but I assume there are certain situations where you can' t Jab your way out of an SPD, or at least where you'd have a freakishly short window of time.
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    -snip-
    There's a few factors to consider.

    First, Gief's standing and c.Jab's both actually have frame disadvantage. If Gief hits Ryu, for example, with a JP/c.JP then Ryu can hit Gief with a JP/c.JP before Gief is even able to block. And this applies to weather Ryu was standing or crouching and it also applies to both hit and block.

    I don't know the exact numbers, but I think the opponent recovers 3 or 4 frames before Gief does, which is just enough time for the throw invulnerability to ware off -- which is technically what makes the trap so good. EG. The trap works so well because if your execution was perfect then the grab frames occur on the exact frame that the opponents throw invulnerability ends (I think). Also, if Ryu mis-times his JP by a frame or two, then Gief's SPD will land successfully -- Which means Ryu can't standing Short out of this trap because his SK is too slow.

    So the short answer is: yes, opponents with quick light normals can jab/short out of most tick-throw 360 setups, but only with perfect timing.

    However, I don't know if this applies to resets or wake-ups (but I assume it applies to wake-ups). I only know for sure that it applies to ticking.

    Also, I say "most" because VC tick-throw setups are inescapable.
    Let's play.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    anyone know the odds for a 'shiny' koryuken for dan?

    also i remember someone posting a vid of a Dan v Gief match and the dan player was building meter off something "odd" looking. that's a pretty vague description but if anyone remembers it could you tell me how it's done? thx
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    anyone know the odds for a 'shiny' koryuken for dan?
    Mummy-B has the answer (check Kao Megura's SFA3 FAQ on GameFAQs).

    It's not random. If your 23rd action from the start of the round is a Kouryuu Ken it'll be a flash. After that it's every 15th action.

    Anyone who hasn't browsed/read through that FAQ, should.
    also i remember someone posting a vid of a Dan v Gief match and the dan player was building meter off something "odd" looking. that's a pretty vague description but if anyone remembers it could you tell me how it's done? thx
    To build meter quickly you can do his air qcb+K very low to the ground. EG. reverse Tiger Knee his air Dankuu Kyaku.
    Let's play.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    Mummy-B has the answer (check Kao Megura's SFA3 FAQ on GameFAQs).

    It's not random. If your 23rd action from the start of the round is a Kouryuu Ken it'll be a flash. After that it's every 15th action.

    Anyone who hasn't browsed/read through that FAQ, should.

    To build meter quickly you can do his air qcb+K very low to the ground. EG. reverse Tiger Knee his air Dankuu Kyaku.

    thanks

    what happens tho if the 23rd or 15th action isn't a koryuken does it reset back to 0?


    I dunno if Dankuu Kyaku close to the ground is what I saw. it didn't look like he even jumped. it was in this thread but alas the vid has been taken off youtube. maybe i'm wrong
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    -snip-
    No, the counter starts from the beginning of each round and increases with every action. Your Kouryuu Ken will be flashy only if the counter is at the right number when you perform it. Check the Kao Megura FAQ on GameFAQs for more details.

    Yes, he was using repeated RTK Dankuu Kyaku's to build meter.
    Let's play.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I thought 'Gief could only use his normals from jumping straight up during a kattobi cancel, but I've been able to use his splash/knee and other air normals.
    Not entirely sure how, but I can get it to work maybe 50% of the time.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Results of Ultimate Zero Direction 6:

    http://a-cho.com/ac/200607_12/uz620061007.html


    1 on 1 tournament:
    1. Krusher (Sodom)
    2. Tosa (Dhalsim)
    3. VER (Cody)
    4. Kenji (Chun-li)
    76 entrants

    Unsure which -ISMs Dhalsim and Chun were in, I would guess V for Chun.
    4 Videos for the Single Tournament are on right now on A-cho! They're so great. I'm mean really great. This Dhalsim is played in V and and Chun-Li is played in A btw. I just can say it again, great matches.
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    I thought 'Gief could only use his normals from jumping straight up during a kattobi cancel, but I've been able to use his splash/knee and other air normals.
    Not entirely sure how, but I can get it to work maybe 50% of the time.
    Kattobi Cancels have really weird properties. Guy is also able to access either his vertical or diagonal jumping attacks depending on a mysterious trigger.

    I can't really explain the trigger with any great detail, but I do know that cancelling a normal into a special is how to set Guy's trigger so that he floats forward. Which makes no sense.
    Let's play.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Krasher is pretty impressive in those videos. It's easy to see why he won.
    The beginning of his match with the Tosa is the best shit ever.
    He ain't fucking around there.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Krasher for president. Guy is fucking ruining people with Sodom. Too good.

    thanks for the links!
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    More vids up. Looks like the exhibition matches this time.
    A-Bison and V-Guy.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    Chikyuu's still still No.1 imo =x
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Japan needs to start doing 2/3 instead of best of 1, if only for the entertainment of the people watching.
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Yeah, I don't know why you guys are cheesing over that Sodom player. His game was good, no doubt, but we've all seen better.

    What caught me were those A-Charlie and A-Bison(Dictator) players who were both really fucking tight on their mechanics. Maybe their execution wasn't so good but they were just on the ball with their mechanics.

    I was totally breathless when that V-Guy activated and did oc.RH. Makes me want to cry tears of joy. He totally should have refrained from using Bushin drops and jumping. Meaning, staying out of the air in general. Still, makes me feel all warm inside when I see a good Guy player use V combos effectively.

    Overall that batch of vids was great. That A-Akuma was scary the way he forced so many 50//50's.

    Anyone know how to buy that Zero Direction? I need to know details.
    Let's play.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I don't think there is a better Sodom player at the moment considering that this was the latest large scale A3 tournament and he was the winner out of like 76 participants or something.
    He's great because of the way he's able to improvise. He has some very very creative VC's in some of the other match-ups I've seen him in. Saw him start a VC from Sodom's throw before, and he has an A2 style CC that he uses against Dhalsim players when he can.

    Never seen any other Sodom open up on a Dhalsim player like that before either. Plus he takes full advantage of all of Sodom's crouch cancel combos which you don't see very often.

    That A-Akuma played a 'sloppy' first round against the dictator player. It looked like he kept trying to activate out of habit at first. That A-Charlie did have a pretty tight game though.

    I'm curious to see some of the other exhibition matches.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I was impressed with what looked to be a hit-confirmed 360, which is a simple thing, but since I don't play 360 characters and have bad excecution in general, I'm always impressed by that.

    I know they had way too many people, but it would have been nuts if the exhibition tournament were round-robin.
  • SlideSlide Inactive Member Joined: Posts: 3,084
    About the Guy thing, there are only two things I can think of as far as the chaining goes. Timing may be a little different if you're canceling a far standing Strong vs a close one, and also IIRC Guy's chains won't work if you're holding away on the joystick, and maybe down also.

    About Chun's jumping short, I have no clue. You can maybe jump straight up and meet her in the air with something (Roundhouse?), but you'd have to be able to see that coming. I don't play Guy really, but from my very limited experience, that match seems to be a pain in the ass. Roundhouse hurricane kick, maybe? Either that or jump and block.

    Guy's chains dont come out if you're holding in any direction. It wouldve made it a hell of alot easier if you could hold toward the opponent when you do his ff chains following the level 3 kick super midscreen. Once you get the jab, you just gotta let go and go neutral.

    I've always seemed to get the strong-fierce chain out, timing it the same as when i time the strong-fierce in the middle of the ff chain. You can use visual queues anyway though, just watch when Guy begins to retract his fist from strong.

    vs Chun's jump short on the ground: roundhouse hurricane does work. You've got to force Chun to only jump at you from a distance, and for cross ups. So that way you can roundhouse hurricane or qcf jab-jab throw. Just using Guy's qcf punches(mainly fierce) in general work well on Chun, after the strong-fierce string, or just strong or fierce by themselves.
    If she goes for cross up, you can duck and then crouch jab her when she gets on the otherside. That works really well vs shotos anyhow. Guy has the hitbox where you can crouch under cross ups fairly well.

    You can also react to the jump with a jump of your own, into air throws or d+strong elbow resulting in the favorable counter hit, which you could follow up with an immediate roundhouse hurricane, or if you can walk cancel, walk cancel into the ff chain. Attacking her air to air, forces Chun to attack early when she's in the air, in which point you can stay on the ground and just cr jab or cr strong into qcf jab-jab for the slam. And What Bitch.

    Otherwise if it's not favorable, dont try to beat it. Just let her jump in at you. And try for a cr forward to trip her(after the close fierce that is), because Guy's cr forward will beat her cr roundhouse.

    That matchup is too hard though IMO. Gotta bait her.
  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    @Slide
    Some interesting info, I'll try some of these soon. It isn't a prob to find jump crazy CHuns on and offline, same for Ken players ...^^ Oh and the c.FK beating Chuns c.RK, thats true but can anyone explain why it sometimes knocks down and sometimes doesn't regardless of CH or not?
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    People were discussing about "that" Sodom player. ^^

    And I must second all the people who say he's best right now. And I never saw a better V-sodom player then him. You remember the time when a-cho didn't feature their vids anymore? About this time Crusher began to get good. He placed 1st a lot of times. And some a-cho tournament had 3 Sodom players in the top 8. Crusher being on the first place and on other Sodom player went second. I joked and said, those japanes players seem to have a new deadly Sodom technique, heh?

    And then a-cho shared their vids again. The first or the second batch featured Crusher getting on the 1st place. Doing his CC reactivation VC. Awesome.

    And in the UZ tournament this year, he didn't just got 1st place in the single tournament, no. He also did very great in the A3 west against east japan event. He had the highest winning streak of all the players. He got 6 wins in a row, beating D44 and stuff.

    So naming a better Sodom will be very hard. (just based on his technical level he's awesome)
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    Saw him start a VC from Sodom's throw before.

    The only reason you don't see that more often is because it's character specific.


    EDIT: actually two reasons. One, it's character specific like I said. Two, Normal throws can't be ticked like command throws can. Gief, Birdie and I think Mika can all splash, then the range of VC 360's allows you to grab easily and continue to combo.

    To use the normal throw VC they have to be out of block/hitstun before you can throw and to top it off you don't have the range 360's do. this makes something simple like crossup lk, throw is so tight and very risky because you have to move up slighty before it works, leaving you open to reversal's. If it works even once, the other player will probably be ready for it the next time.

    I would have been great if Capcom allowed you to activate immediately AFTER after the throw but it doesn't seem to work no matter how fast I mash or set autofire to (training purposes only =p) Which I find strange seeing as KK throw, immediate lv1 scrape works in A-ism. ah well.


    snip


    The thing I see about krusher is that his Sodom is I dunno slighty... I think the word I want is a little scruffy? (and yes, I'm the last person who should be saying this). Looking at the matches he was very lucky to win not only against the Sim player but he barely won the Gen matches too. On another day he might've lost both matches.

    the Reactivate CC's were pretty, he's a very good player obviously, the skills are there (impromtu OTG = ace), but I think he's still lacking a little something imo. He's the best right now? I see that, but not the best Sodom player ever.
    I make Jazz-Hop/Soul-Hop: http://releases.prosodij.co.uk
  • MiddlekickMiddlekick r.mika stalker Joined: Posts: 604
    With VER. switching to Cody and Asaba playing Gouki, it looks like Crusher is the only one flying the Sodom beat-down flag. It's hard to say who is better out of those three now, though (no disrespect to Chikyuu, but I can't recall seeing any of his Sodom matches, nor do I have any recollection of him finishing high in a major Japan tourney), but I'll say this: Crusher has used his Karin VC knowledge to create that infinite -- something that both Asaba and VER. never attained. Even after playing that character for years.
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