"Dash Active": Info on FA Buffered Dashes etc.

[IIIIIIIIII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSdmTHbqcbw

What's going on guys, Saki here. First and foremost, I'd like to say that if this is something that has been founded, I've looked for two days now and found NOTHING on this anywhere. I discovered this by accident while using Balrog a few mornings ago. So far I've only tested this with Ryu, Chun Li, Balrog, and Sagat. This might be common knowledge, and if so, bear with me folks.. Thank you to Samma for the input correction/editing cues.


EDIT:

Because this has been founded long since, and before (I was unaware, therefore my original disclaimer will remain) I apologize for the misconception of a new finding. I have also changed the name for the sake of it not being a brand new discovery, however for those of you who STILL did not know this - and my lack of post deleting power, I will edit some phrases in this main post.


Dash Active - (Or whatever it's REALLY Called)

What is it? Quite simply, a quick way to execute a backdash from ANY position. The input is simply b, mp+mk, b. If you are already holding back whether you are standing or crouching, all you have to do is press mp+mk, b. It also works for dash forward, as I'm now figuring out. The input is just as easily f, mp+mk, f. See note on Sagat below.



Pros and Cons
+ Extremely Easy to perform.
+ Quick backdash on guard, so you don't have to bring the stick to NEUTRAL first.
+ ARMOR on the mp+mk input, INVINCIBILITY on the back input.
+ CHARGE CHARACTERS: Retain Charge and allows for Backdash Ultra. I'm still doing extensive testing with the properties of this, but so far I don't see it working for Guile or Vega.
+ Some characters have different reactions (I'm still looking these up as we speak). SAGAT for example looks as if he's faking a move for one, AND it cuts his backdash distance in 1/2. Useful? If his back dash distance is halved, that means he will recover quicker using b, mp+mk, b instead of just regular b, b as a backdash. Edit: If you f, mp+mk, f with SAGAT, you will get a longer dash.

_______________

- First input (mp+mk) has armor, HOWEVER, if the opponent executes an armor breaking move, or reversal/counter hit (Something that normally breaks armor), you WILL Eat the hit.
- As far as I know, you CAN BE THROWN out of the startup of this move.
- If you absorb a hit, you won't be able to Ultra afterwards (as far as I can tell - but I think my inputs are off for this one.)







That's all I've got folks. Feel free to let me know what you all think about this.

[RichL]

I believe this is called "Rich's Dash Active"

Sorry.

[samma]

There's no need to press forward. Just go to neutral. If you're already holding a direction when you activate focus, you only need to input the direction one more time to dash in that direction.

Originally Posted by IIIIIIIIII

If his backdash distance is halved, that means his recovery time for backdash is shorter.

Why would it mean that?

[IIIIIIIIII]

Originally Posted by samma

There's no need to press forward. Just go to neutral. If you're already holding a direction when you activate focus, you only need to input the direction one more time to dash in that direction.



Why would it mean that?

Edit: I misunderstood you a second ago.

I did not even THINK to try that at all. That's a very good point of input dude. Alright, that makes sense. I'll change that.


Also, I think for the backdash being shorter, I guess I was commenting on the common sense of it.. IF he only has to move back half the speed, he would recover at the same time as a NORMAL backdash, but overall he's recovering faster. If that makes sense?

[Pasqual]

Originally Posted by IIIIIIIIII

+ Some characters have different reactions (I'm still looking these up as we speak). SAGAT for example looks as if he's faking a move for one, AND it cuts his backdash distance in 1/2. Useful? If his backdash distance is halved, that means his recovery time for backdash is shorter. Which also means he recovers faster from backdash. Someone will find this useful.

- If you absorb a hit, you won't be able to Ultra afterwards (as far as I can tell - but I think my inputs are off for this one.)

To clarify, you're not shortening the dash lengths. You're using the Focus Attack dashes, which vary from character to character. For your Sagat example, doing this forward increases his dash length by about 50%. For Rose these are reversed; her backdash goes farther but her forward dash is shorter. I don't know if this was intentional or if it's completely due to the fact that your Focus Attack moves your placement a bit, but either way you're not shortening anything.

And I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to Ultra after absorbing, so I'm going to agree that this was your execution. You were probably hitting your Kicks/Punches too fast and the dash was still in recovery.

Originally Posted by samma

Why would it mean that?

Seconding this. The overall execution time is shorter because of the decreased range of the FA's dash, but you still have the same amount of frames at the end during which you can't do anything.

Look at it this way (arbitrary numbers so don't go correcting them):

Startup: 2 Frames for both.
Travel Time: 16 Frames for normal backdash, 10 Frames for FA backdash.
Recovery: 4 Frames for both.



So while the FA backdash doesn't take as long to execute, you still have the same amount of recovery. And the shortened time is at the expense of the lost travel distance... assuming that the FA dashes don't just have the same total amount of frames as their normal counterparts anyway, which would completely null that aspect of this.



Questions:

• How many extra frames (if any) does this require compared to a regular dash? If none or negligible, this could be used character-specifically as a replacement for normal dashes depending on the distance gained/lost. This could also be used situationally if you wanted to intentionally shorten a dash, for example shortening a forward dash to bait someone into thinking you'll be in range for a wakeup reversal.
• Which characters benefit the most from this? Meaning, who has drastic distance differences between normal dashes and Focus Attack Dashes?

And dude, don't name it after yourself. Active Dash kinda sounds cool but isn't very descriptive. Just call it Focus Dashing or something if this even gets to the point of needing a name.

[IIIIIIIIII]

Originally Posted by Pasqual

To clarify, you're not shortening the dash lengths. You're using the Focus Attack dashes, which vary from character to character. For your Sagat example, doing this forward increases his dash length by about 50%. For Rose these are reversed; her backdash goes farther but her forward dash is shorter. I don't know if this was intentional or if it's completely due to the fact that your Focus Attack moves your placement a bit, but either way you're not shortening anything.

Thank you for the clarification there. I wasn't sure exactly WHAT was happening there, I just knew there was a difference. This makes complete sense.

Originally Posted by Pasqual

Seconding this.

That was a typo/miscommunication on my part. I've since edited that comment. I hope what I said now makes better sense. I just edited it yet again because after reading it 3 times straight I realize it made no sense.

Originally Posted by Pasqual

Questions:

• How many extra frames (if any) does this require compared to a regular dash? If none or negligible, this could be used character-specifically as a replacement for normal dashes depending on the distance gained/lost. This could also be used situationally if you wanted to intentionally shorten a dash, for example shortening a forward dash to bait someone into thinking you'll be in range for a wakeup reversal.

EXACTLY my intentions of posting such a thing here.. More mind games. I don't know how many frames, because honestly it's going to depend on each character's frame attributes if I am not mistaken. And situationally speaking, yes.. I just confirmed that it makes Sagat's forward dash longer.

Originally Posted by Pasqual

• Which characters benefit the most from this? Meaning, who has drastic distance differences between normal dashes and Focus Attack Dashes?

I'm in the process of figuring all of that out now. As far as I'm concerned, this is a completely new area for me to be messing with.

Originally Posted by Pasqual

And dude, don't name it after yourself. Active Dash kinda sounds cool but isn't very descriptive. Just call it Focus Dashing or something if this even gets to the point of needing a name.

The name ended up coming from someone else on these boards (not going to be rude and call him out lol..) as a joke. I'm a naturally goofy person anyway, so I didn't bother to change what he decided to call it. I'm cool taking heat about that, though more neg rep will definitely come from it.

[Black Dog]

This is pretty cool to know.

[Pasqual]

So I've tested this.

1. The amount of extra frames this has compared to a regular dash is basically dependent on how fast you get the second input out to start the dash. Meaning, somewhere between 1 and 10 frames or so, because after about 10 frames (estimating here) the first input won't count towards the dash anymore. But if done properly you should only be dealing with a couple frames at most of extra time; downside being, the faster you do this the fewer frames of armor you get...

2. This definitely makes it a little easier for charge characters to dash forward or backward and then Super/Ultra, in my opinion. So cool find there at the very least

3. If you were point blank and super-perfect at the timing, you might be able to use this as a ghetto Armor Cancel against one hit normals/specials that would normally be safe on block. Instead of canceling into Ultra/another EX move, you'd be dashing out into whatever, probably cLP xx BnBs or a throw just to be safe. Sounds cool in theory but doesn't strike me as feasible at this point, especially consider that you're only getting armor for however many frames you allow the Focus Attack to be out before dashing out. is probably still better suited in this regard and even then will usually only net you a throw.

4. Most characters' dashes are negligibly affected if you do the "direction, FA, direction" input. The exceptions are:

• Akuma: fDash increases from 1 Training Room Square to 1.4, bDash decreases from 1 to 0.6
• Balrog (Boxer): fDash decreases from 1.5 to 1
• Chun Li: fDash decreases from 1.25 to 1**
• Fei Long: fDash decreases from 1.25 to 1
• Sagat: fDash increases from 1 to 1.5, bDash decreases from 1 to 0.5

**: Chun's can decrease to .75 if done on the slower end of the window as her FA's movement starts up quickly and is dramatic.

All the values are approximate but you get the idea.

This isn't entirely relevant to the technique being discussed, but you can get a third length for every character by the "FA, direction direction" because the second directional input will hit later during the Focus Attack and be susceptible to any shifting that's already started. Some of these are pretty hefty (cutting Akuma's fDash in half but adding half to his bDash, for example) so I suggest anybody who's interested to test with their character and see how much if at all it effects them. Think of these as the dashing equivalent of Zangief's Short Jumps.

[Anotak]

i thought this was known already...
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...0&postcount=12

(who btw is the same person who discovered zangief's short jumps)

[impork]

Originally Posted by Anotak

i thought this was known already...
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...0&postcount=12

You're damn right!

[RichL]

Originally Posted by Anotak

i thought this was known already...
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...0&postcount=12

(who btw is the same person who discovered zangief's short jumps)

kinda figured someone already knew about it. At least that guy didn't have the arrogance to try and name it after himself :p

[Mnszyk]

does that mean we're going to have to call them bush dashes? :(

[DoomFingerz]

lol old news

[Jrix]

For people it's not immediately obvious to, the input leniency allows for easy FADC's. Hold forward, then press forward once with the mp+mk.

[pressstart]

Is the input leniency part of the arcade version too?

[Fermbiz]

I just learned this the other day arguing with a friend of mine. He claimed that he only has to press forward once to focus cancel and I didnt believe him. But yet, he doesnt know why hes able to do that.

After spending about an hour in training mode, I figured out why he only had to press forward once. Its pretty helpful

[IIIIIIIIII]

My apologies, guys. I didn't realize this was already discovered months ago. Thanks for the heads up.

[HeaTBlazn]

backdash ultra works with vega and guile btw

[West]

with akuma i always focus backdash, you get super distance

[gilley]

I posted about this last year when SF4 was only out in arcades. This doesn't allow you to maintain your charge for charge characters. Focus attack has nothing to do with dash > ultra, and yes guile/vega can backdash > ultra, though it's really difficult with guile. I won't get into the reasons why.


Essentially when you input mp+mk for your focus attack, it remembers whatever direction you were holding for a short amount of time. If you were holding DB then input FA, then tap B you will get a backdash. If you wait too long during the FA to input your 2nd B, you won't get a backdash(or forward dash). So what you need to remember is that if you were holding DB,B,or UB when you input your FA, the game treats this as B. If you were holding DF,F or UF when you input your FA, the game treats this as F. This is why you can FADC guile's flash kick really easy by charging DB, UF+K, hold mp+mk, F. Since you were holding UF when you input the FA(and flash kick), the game thinks you were holding F.

[samma]

When you land from an empty jump, you have to wait a small amount of time (4 frames, I think) before you can jump again or backdash. As soon as you land, you can block, attack, or focus (remember "air focus"?)...

This could be a way to get around that short period of lag between landing and being able to dash. [ Jump -> land -> focus -> dash ] instead of [ Jump -> land -> dash ].

Something I heard that wasn't confirmed was that focus dashing adds frames to the beginning of your dash (the frames where you have armor). Having those frames is unavoidable, but it's unknown what the minimum amount is.

[jeenyus1]

So is there any advantage of this focus dash compared to normal dash? I don't really see any but if I'm missing something I'd be more than happy to know.

[buddaz1g]

good info

[sonarghost]

I just found this video with the the FA dash-> Ultra with a Guile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN65beUZdFw

It happens starting at the 50 sec. mark. Very, very sick punishment for a spam of corner fireballs by Ryu. Really impressive "real world" usage. Worth checking out!

[ReaLgoesWronG]

well i think some ppl are forgetting that you CAN keep the charge for the ultra. I been messin around with boxer doing this,
and have only been able to do this with ultra and not regular/ex dash punches. dunno if its my poor execution or what.

another thing im confused about is that statement about losing the charge after a focus absorb.
after putting ryu in spamdouken mode i was able to Dash active absorb a fireball into Ultra.

The one that completely threw me off was accidentally FocusAbsorb, DASH FORWARD, into boxer Ultra.
shouldnt the forward dash kill the charge? my only theory was that i snuck in a forward dash fast enough in the ultra command.

DB, MP+MK, F-F, B, F 3P?

Im getting upset that i can Focus Dash forward thru fireballs into boxer ultra and still cant LP,LP, EX Upper, LP,LK, headbutt, ultra.