Dan Strategies and Match-ups

[Sugami]

Really? I'd have thought Ken's and Gouken's would catch you, Balrog and Bison's as well? :o

[Le Shad]

Originally Posted by Sugami

Really? I'd have thought Ken's and Gouken's would catch you, Balrog and Bison's as well? :o

Against Ken's and Gouken's, you have to jump forward.
About Boxer's Ultra, I forgot that he could hold the kicks button to hit over his head. It does catch you. Sorry 'bout that.
Dictator's Ultra don't catch you, I'm positive 'bout that mate.

[pattybenpatty]

Now here is a question:

Typically when I block Viper's Ultra I'll wait for her to land then do a c.hp xx Danku (I'll taunt too but you can't see it for all the smoke and pyrotechnics) BUUUT i was wondering if you can possibly do a j.mk/j.hk xx c.hp xx hk.Danku, just thought of this the other day and haven't tested it yet.

[Xiahou Mao]

To punish Viper/Ken/Ryu's Ultras (and probably others too, if they have exceedingly long recoveries), there's no reason you couldn't start with a jumping move. If you're right next to them, neutral jump HP would probably be the best move to use, since neutral jump HK goes above Dan's head, and neutral jump MK doesn't have as much hitstun.

[pattybenpatty]

Well shit. Now I'll have to work out the timing for this so I don't knock her out of the air or have her block...

I've tried jumping in on Ryu but I routinely foul up the combo, not sure if it is something to do with his hitbox after the Ultra or just me flubbing the timing/spacing, so now I just play it safe and jump in and do the bnb. Maybe I need to get in the training room for a bit.

[Sugami]

There's been times when after blocking Viper's Ultra I walk forward a bit and charge an FA3 but hit her before she actually properly lands so send her spinning instead XD (still easy to catch an Ultra or Kouryuken from that :P)

With Ryu's there's enough time to jump over and charge up a FA2 before he's able to recover.

[pattybenpatty]

Damn. I've been thinking small. I need to step things up.

[Hawk]

Greetings, fellow Dan players! Say hello to your newest Saikyo student!

I figure this is the closest thing to a Dan general thread there is, so I thought I'd introduce myself here, along with obligatory pleas for advice!

I guess I'll start out with some basic questions.


- My standard anti-wakeup "Knee of Justice" seems to work really, really well on most of the cast, especially when followed up with the cl.mp pressure string loop I stole from Hibiki-San's videos. The one thing that worries me, though, is throwing this out against Shoto characters - I know I'm technically supposed to beat/trade with/sail right over most of their DPs, but for some reason I can never seem to do anything but get beat cleanly 100% of the time. Is my timing off or is this whole strategy a bad idea?

- Do I get a free Ultra vs Akuma air fireball?

- Are FADC combos worth it, or should I save for a super taunt cancel instead?

- Is mk my good jump-in attack? What else should I be using?

- Okay, seriously. Air LK knee is weird. I never know when to use it during my jump to beat air attacks, most of the time it just ends up getting me swatted straight out of the air. Do I time it late? Early? Also, what characters can beat my air knee cleanly?

- How the fuck do I beat Guile?


All that aside, I'd love to get some practice in over XBL with anybody here (versus any character). Feel free to add me!

[Sugami]

Hi there :)

1. I think Knee of Justice beating or "jumping" Dragon Punches is dependant on timing and spacing, think the idea is to be close enough to stuff light versions but bounce over heavy versions. Saying that I think certain DPs wil just beat you clean regardless :(
2. Believe so.
3. Yes and no. It's easy enough to stuff up a Gadouken FADC combo so I generally stick with the simple stuff to punish. FADCing Kouryukens for safety is always a good idea, plus you can (try to) follow up with an addition attack if you land it. EX Dankuu is too sexy not to use, shouldn't really be saving up for Super but if you happen to have it available then by all means do Legendary Taunt cancel if you get the chance :)
4. Personally I use j.HK for straight jump-ins and j.MK and j.LK for cross-ups. Vertical j.MK is good AA and vertical j.HP is pretty good on wake-up (but is slow as hell).
5. Well timed normal AAs can still smack Air Knee clean, if you're trying to beat them you'll want to time it later than usual so it changes your trajectory and hopefully hops over the AA and smack them clean in the face. Generally any typical dragon punch type move can smack it clean out of the air, any good AA can as well but timing must be correct.
6. I hear good things about (Air) Knee beating Flash Kicks and even Super/Ultra, really depends on the type of Guile but the good defensive ones will be harder to crack than offensive ones.

[Munchmessiah]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Greetings, fellow Dan players! Say hello to your newest Saikyo student!

I figure this is the closest thing to a Dan general thread there is, so I thought I'd introduce myself here, along with obligatory pleas for advice!

I guess I'll start out with some basic questions.


- My standard anti-wakeup "Knee of Justice" seems to work really, really well on most of the cast, especially when followed up with the cl.mp pressure string loop I stole from Hibiki-San's videos. The one thing that worries me, though, is throwing this out against Shoto characters - I know I'm technically supposed to beat/trade with/sail right over most of their DPs, but for some reason I can never seem to do anything but get beat cleanly 100% of the time. Is my timing off or is this whole strategy a bad idea?

- Do I get a free Ultra vs Akuma air fireball?

- Are FADC combos worth it, or should I save for a super taunt cancel instead?

- Is mk my good jump-in attack? What else should I be using?

- Okay, seriously. Air LK knee is weird. I never know when to use it during my jump to beat air attacks, most of the time it just ends up getting me swatted straight out of the air. Do I time it late? Early? Also, what characters can beat my air knee cleanly?

- How the fuck do I beat Guile?


All that aside, I'd love to get some practice in over XBL with anybody here (versus any character). Feel free to add me!

Salutations, fellow Dan and Tager enthusiast!

I've been having a lot of trouble with Guile (now that I'm in G2 and they're, you know, smart), but I find a good strategy is to bait out a lot of flash kicks. Depending on your positioning, you can stuff them with a jumping LK or an aerial Knee of Justice. I get my ass kicked a lot with the aerial Knee, but it's great if you end up just above or below an aerial opponent midjump. I've pissed off many a Guile like this. Versus jumping attacks from other opponents, I find the earlier you stick the knee out, the better. LK on its own is a great air attack too; I have no idea if it crosses up or any of that jazz, but it's quick and great for stuffing improperly timed Shoryukens, Tiger Uppercuts, and the like. You can often get in a grab right after it, too! (unless they're thinking of that too, in which case you should backdash and wait for another mistake.)

The knee against Shoryukens can be tricky to time. I have most success using it on a missed Shoryuken, as more often than not I'm shoryukened out of the air and fireballed if I try to jump in with it.

Also, grab. It is your friend, especially against turtling characters like Guile.

As for FADC combos... whoo... I can't pull those off at all. I just save my bar for EX moves.

Above all, be patient. Let the opponent get irritated and attack first. This is when you can see what they like to do, and punish accordingly. Really generic tip, I know, but I can't tell you how often I get my ass handed to me because I try to rush them down (BAD idea with Dan). Play keep away until you see some good openings.

[Ashkente]

Originally Posted by Hawk

- How the fuck do I beat Guile?

Option 1) With the power of Saikyo~! (your mileage may vary)
Option 2) With a 2x4 to the head, but don't hit his hair, that gel is made of kevlar and diamond dust. End result, broken 2x4, and a Flash Kick to the Saikyo-sack.
Option 3) Find the Guile players house, and beat THEM with a 2x4.

[SaikyoBeast]

Originally Posted by Hawk

- Do I get a free Ultra vs Akuma air fireball?

- Are FADC combos worth it, or should I save for a super taunt cancel instead?

- Is mk my good jump-in attack? What else should I be using?

- Okay, seriously. Air LK knee is weird. I never know when to use it during my jump to beat air attacks, most of the time it just ends up getting me swatted straight out of the air. Do I time it late? Early? Also, what characters can beat my air knee cleanly?

- How the fuck do I beat Guile?


All that aside, I'd love to get some practice in over XBL with anybody here (versus any character). Feel free to add me!

0) Knee of Justice: learn the spacing through experience. I dunno how to explain it.

1) Yep! At proper spacing, anyway. I mean, you gotta hit him.

2) If you can do 'em consistently (I can, toot toot) they generally are.

3) j. HK has really good range. j.mk is his crossup. j. lk is good for fake crossup. n.j. MP juggles after koryuken FADC.

4) Early beats pretty much everything air to air...but can get AA'd easily.

5) lol. get good with ryu.

[Sugami]

Originally Posted by SaikyoBeast

5) lol. get good with ryu.

Even if it is just a joke you shouldn't be saying that here D:

[pattybenpatty]

I like to bait out a flash kick by starting a FA **JUST** out of its range on Guile's wake-up, DON'T try it if he has meter. Also, once he's tagged you with a flash kick when you do this, wait a bit and try again but dash back and it will all but guarantee you a chance to punish his whiffed Flash Kick.

Punish the double hit c.hk with KRK or EX.Danku.

KRK his Sonic boom trap on your wake-up, you should go through it and just clip him in the head from a surprising distance out, LEARN the distance.

If he likes to do a string of c.lk then the hop forward knee then a string of c.lk throw him or KRK him out of the knee.

LEARN the recovery on his Sonic Boom, it is very fast and a lot of tricks that work on Shotos won't with Guile, he'll be able to block before you get in.

Once he starts baiting your air lk.Danku in order to throw you, DON'T keep doing it. Althoug with proper spacing you can do an EXTREMELY early mk or hk.Danku and surprise him before he can do the air throw.

Timed right close in cross ups can be pretty safe as the Flash Kick has to start very early not to whiff and give you time to punish.

Watch him to see how much time he might have had to charge, and ALWAYS keep an eye on his meter, it very much changes his options to counter your shedanigans.

SaikyoBeast,

Holy shit. I was listening to This Year when I opened this thread. One of my top ten songs, liek 4 realz.

[Sugami]

Originally Posted by pattybenpatty

Punish the double hit c.hk with KRK or EX.Danku.

And Ultra

No good Guile will use c.HK like at all, the only way Guile can get away with it is if there's that much lag to stop you from reacting in time. But that's why I love Guile scrubs more than shoto scrubs, they really are that much easier to punish and walk straight over :P

[creffca]

Hey guys, I'm currently crawling my way through G2 on PSN with Dan in hopes of taking him to G1. I thought I'd say hi and drop a few personal saikyo match up tips.

Ken:
On whiff or blocked ultra, jump straight up and as you both are rising, air taunt him in his SRK happy face. The air taunt should take you as high as ken, which is hilarious. Punish once grounded, your ultra should safely connect while he is in recovery.

Ryu:
On wide open or preemptive ultra, jump behind and air taunt before you land. Unleash your ultra when you land if its loaded, you'll have PLENTY of time.

Viper:
If you get lucky and do low kick knee of justice on Viper's wake-up ultra, immediately do crouching taunt on the other side. Her ultra only hits in front of her which makes for an awesome Dan silhouette behind the smoke shouting "What's the problem?" Jump and air taunt as she rises for double saikyo points.

Akuma:
If Akuma has ultra, run to the corner and spam jab, jab, short, fierce (while dodging his angry fireballs of course). This is more of a taunt to Akuma players than any stock taunt Dan has. If he's trying to force you to jump over his fireballs and into his ultra, simply do Dan kicks to glide over his ultra. Lastly, over any open ultra, counter with your own ultra, or jump and air taunt for maximum saikyo.

Sagat:
If full screen away and he throws a high tiger, do crouching taunt. Savor every last pixel as the orange glow sails over Dan's head...

[Krackatoa]

These are the kind of advanced taunt-based tactical developments we've been missing around here.

I'm going to implement this shit post haste.

POST HASTE!

[Pat666]

Great post creffca. Can't wait to try that Ken one. I normally just do a butt slap in that situation but air taunt sounds even better!

[Sugami]

Hehe, some of that is pretty obvious but the Ken one in particular is nice

[Krackatoa]

I actually tested some of these amazing developments.

Watch out on the Ken one. If you do the full Jumping Taunt after coming out of blockstun going straight up, you'll switch sides with Ken on landing along with an uncomfortable window to link into the Ultra. Keep the jump short.

[pattybenpatty]

Originally Posted by Krackatoa

I actually tested some of these amazing developments.

Watch out on the Ken one. If you do the full Jumping Taunt after coming out of blockstun going straight up, you'll switch sides with Ken on landing along with an uncomfortable window to link into the Ultra. Keep the jump short.

Hmm. Better to taunt early or after the apex? I would assume the first...

[Krackatoa]

Originally Posted by pattybenpatty

Hmm. Better to taunt early or after the apex? I would assume the first...

Taunt late, so you don't fly so high.

[creffca]

Glad I could give something back after basing most (all?) of my style off of what I've seen on this board. I agree, the Ken taunt is very risky. Its so much fun to taunt as you both go up so you can match his height, but you forfeit your counter ultra doing so. Later is safer. That viper taunt is my favorite though. Nothing like taunting while someone's ultra is going off!!

On a somewhat serious note, I believe taunts have a place as an offensive tool (not meaning to offend the player, but I mean as an act of aggression). There is a major difference between spamming taunts from full screen and dropping well placed taunts to drive the point that you are _mentally_ dominating your opponent. As some have pointed out, Dan is all about meta-game. Taunting the other player when they've made a grave mistake chips away at their mental hold in the match. If you spam taunt relentlessly you give up your mental control of the match as the other player will most likely write you off as a buffoon or as just messing around (which is fun in itself too sometimes!). Some players say when they're taunted it just makes them try harder. This is actually counter-productive as "trying harder" means less focus and they usually end up making more small mistakes for you to capitalize on. Use Dan's underdog status and taunting ability as a weapon to get inside the other player's head. Once you've beaten someone mentally, you've pretty much already won.

Of course, this only applies to your run-of-the-mill online player! I'm sure high level players will shrug and more than likely not even give you an opening to pull any saikyo.

[Sugami]

After a back throw you can taunt and cancel into another throw or Kouryuken as they get up so it has "some" practical applications as well :P

Now if only taunts did something so they'd be more useful than just looking awesome :P

[ChuckBartowski]

What should I do when someone's in the corner? I saw this in a video: cr. mp xx lk danku rinse and repeat. It worked on a Bison today (near double perfect) but is there anything else I should do? I feel so naked when I do this :(