Very advanced juggle question

HarmoNaz · 03-22-2006, 05:06 AM

Ok now its my turn to ask a question, though I'm not sure what the point is since even if the answer is in the affirmative, it wont be something that I can execute

First of all, you have to know what I mean by the 2 hit Roundhouse hurricane juggle. It happens when you do the hurricane while the other guy is next to you, but slightly airborne. What happens is that the first hit of the hurricane gets them, but then they dont get hit anymore and are in the air until they get juggled by the last hit of the hurricane. Now for a blatant example, if you get this on someone in the corner, you can easily land a far Fierce or Roundhouse for a third hit. Note this only works if the hurricane was the only thing used in the juggle i.e. you didn't set them up with with an lk hurricane first or something. If you did, then doing a taunt after the juggle is safe - I have mentioned this in quite a few of my other posts.

Clear on that? Ok, now something to note before the actual question. Ken can juggle Q with a dragon without having to kara. So in theory, if Akuma could get a player with a kara dragon in any specific scenario, then he should be able to get Q in the same scenario without having to kara the dragon right?

I was watching a casual vid between a Q and Akuma - between two top Japanese players. Akuma got the two hit hurricane juggle in mid screen, then DASHED FORWARD and landed a FIERCE DRAGON for all 3 hits making 5 hits in total. He had two such chances and landed it both times.
Now what if the character wasn't Q? Lets say the dragon had to be kara'd. Akuma can ONLY do kara dragon off f+mp. I'm wondering if doing that would make the combo connect, BECAUSE WHY ELSE DO I ALWAYS SEE JAPANESE AKUMA PLAYERS DASH UP AFTER THE 2 HIT JUGGLE AND DO F+MP? Its not like there is any way in hell that any of those hits will actually connect, and its not exactly the best move for building bar. Maybe position themselves? I dunno - I'm inclined to think that a kara dragon can indeed be done there.

But again, I have never been able to do a kara dragon with akuma. Anyone? If this combo does indeed work, I might try and get his kara dragon down...

Makoto36 · 03-23-2006, 12:05 PM

Hey Naz, I know which combo you mean. I dont know which matchvideo of Q and akuma you watched bt I also have an Akuma does a similiar combo on Q. The Q is in roundhouse colour, the Gouki in lp+mk+hp colour, its in Ibuki stage and apparantly recorded on a Dreamcast.
Both players jump towards each other. Q does a jumping fierce and Akuma parries it and does an tatsumaki while still in the air (not sure if short, forward or roundhouse) then he land does immidiatlly roundhouse tatsumaki, dash towards and fierce shoryu. I am not exactly sure if this juggle works on anyone and if you can juggle with other stuff after it.

Demon Dash · 03-23-2006, 12:51 PM

If you tried to kara a dragon with f+mp it's probably going to be seriously strict timing. Most kara's to specials need to be drummed, I can't imagine it working. As in a sense, You're going to have to return to forward and you'll get a fireball instead of f+mp. Of course I could be wrong, I'm unfamiliar with the leniency of Akuma's overhead, but it doesn't sound easy.

I know what matches you're on about Makoto36, Replay Data Land right? Well.....The Q wasn't in the same colour you said (edit: infact, he might have been), but the Akuma done what you where on about Naz, except went for the fierce.

Can Akuma not kara with crouching roundhouse or forward like Ken?

It's not just Q, it's Elena aswell. If Q's hit box is wide enough that it can be combo'd, then in theory it should be possible. Just the thought of karaing a dragon with f+mp is kind of daunting.

Makoto36 · 03-23-2006, 04:24 PM

Yeah those matches from replay data land, many pro players playing their charakter for example j makoto, match gouki, ken daigo, chun raoh etc.
I tried the combo I mentioned earlier on Q and it works if you do the first air tatsumaki with forward. I have not yet tested this combo on Elena but it doesn't work on shotos and urien.
Quite a shame considering that it looks very stylish with the -> dash fierce shoryu, does good damage and builds quite some meter as well.

Ponta-kun · 03-23-2006, 05:11 PM

It's too fast to actually do. Starting with the F+MP, you have 3 frames after it to do D, then D/F and a punch. Strict timing is an understatement. I don't think you'll ever see it done without a programmable controller (which is how the KYSG Gouki video has so many kara-shoryu and kara-tatsumaki).

I'm guessing if you saw videos of people doing F+MP after the dash, it's because they knew it was potentially possible but maybe didn't realize how little time there is to do the whole motion.

Demon Dash: It's possible, but a lot harder than Ken's, because you have to hit D+kick for the kara, since if you hit D/F before the kick, you'll get demon flip and it's not possible to cancel that into shoryu no matter how fast you feather the buttons.

Demon Dash · 03-23-2006, 05:12 PM

I tried to kara dragon and to be honest I don't think it can be done. I tried two methods, f+mp x dragon and I also tried another. I was trying to partition it, but if that is the way to do it it's too much hassle to be useful in a match. I was thinking you could do the dp motion, return to neutral and f+mp, but since his dragon is a punch button it can't be done.

mio · 03-23-2006, 07:28 PM

The problem with this combo that you're asking about is that even if it could be executed (which, in theory it seems like it works), it's way too circumstantial to use consistently. You can't really set up that combo since the hk hurricane kick two hit juggle has to be landed FIRST (meaning that your opponent has to jump or something)... but at the point where it does happen I think it is possible to kara into the hp dragon. It sounds incredibly hard to do though.

HarmoNaz · 03-24-2006, 10:21 AM

Yes yes everyone and yes. Whats this replay data land you talk of though?? The only matches I have are three Q Vs Akuma on Ibuki stage.

Setting it up is not that hard believe it or not - use jab reset when someone jumps in on you - if they parry, hurricane. Or as an anti-crossup technique it works well. Basically the only reason I wanted to know about the combo is because I get that 2 hit juggle very often, thanks to my hurricane spamming

I'm going to try playing around with f+mp kara dragon. You mention that the KYSG vid has kara hurricanes?? What kind of combos were they for though??

Ponta-kun · 03-24-2006, 11:06 AM

As an example, the very first 100%, the one done on Ryu, slow it down and step frame by frame right before the hurricane that finishes the combo. Also, the 2nd combo in the video (done on Dudley), the short hurricane is done off F+MP.