The official Cthulhu board thread- Chimp Open Beta Available!

Toodles · 08-10-2008, 05:38 PM

Here's the official Cthulhu thread! I'm sure this first post will be edited frequently to hold all pertinent information and FAQ's.

New MC Cthulhu firmware: http://www.marcuspost.com/downloads/...CCthulhu13.zip
How to assemble the Cthulhu kit: http://www.instructables.com/id/How_...a_Cthulhu_PCB/
Cthulhu Welcome document showing pinout: http://www.marcuspost.com/downloads/cthulhuwelcome.doc
Guide to troubleshooting: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=1975
Bomberman's Guide to Installing in a MadCatz FightStick: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=184787

Pictures of various sticks with the Cthulhu board installed:
dtampico: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=5844
dtampico (Jules): http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=7060
Taiki: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...&postcount=127
zombie cpt (PS3/Xbox360/PSX): http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...&postcount=112
Jayducky: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=6007
troll_hammer: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=6132
Chaz: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=6169
LewisD: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=6187
Kaytrim: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=6175
SteveTren (Old Hori mod): http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...&postcount=172
Taiki (Capcom Fight Stick mod): http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...&postcount=127
ShinJN (Cthulhu+PSX T5 mod): http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...&postcount=200
OngBak (Dual VirtuaStick mod): http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=6331
ShinFuuma: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=6929
madgrab: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=7249
Kaytrim: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=7313

Q:What is it?
A: The Cthulhu board is a printed circuit board designed to go inside of an arcade stick. By using a Cthulhu board, you can avoid having to hack an official pad, and instead use a clean board designed specifically to be used with arcade sticks.

Q:Where can I get it?
A: Online retailers carrying the Cthulhu:
LizardLick.com
GamingNow.net

Q:Why would I use a Cthulhu board instead of a hacked pad?
A: A hacked pad requires soldering wires to a board that just wasn't meant to be used in an arcade stick. Soldering together a Cthulhu kit is far easier than hacking a pad, and in most cases, cheaper. If you don't want to solder at all, assembled boards are available with screw terminals; absolutely NO SOLDERING is needed to install one in an arcade stick.

Q: Does it lag at all?
A: Oh god no. None at all. To see the results of testing on a PS3 against a VSHG and SIXAXIS pad: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=165659

Q:What consoles with the Cthulhu board work with?
A:The Cthulhu currently works with the Playstation 3 console and PC, both through USB.

Q:What about the Xbox360?
A: Xbox360 will most likely never happen. Microsoft is using some hefty security for controller identification that I can't get around.

Q: What about backwards compatability with PS2 games on 20GB, 60GB, and 80GB Playstation 3 models?
A: The Cthulhu supports the PS2 games on Playstation 3 consoles that play PS2 games.

Q: I'm broke.
A: I'm always looking to trade for cool stuff. PM me to discuss if you have something you'd be willing to trade towards a board or a discount on a board. I'll try to list various stuff I'd like to get and how much I'd knock off for getting them:

Spoiler for Trade Wants:

Q: What does it look like? How big is it?
A: This awesome image and measurements were done by Per of Akihabarashop.jp. Large picture, so please check this link: http://akihabarashop.jp/misc/Cthulhu.jpg

Q: How will these work with the new MadCatz sticks?
A: Based on what we've seen so far, yes. Zombie CPT has already posted up pictures from his dual pcb installation in a MadCatz 360 SE stick. I have a an SE stick in my hands and will be working in Instructables as fast as humanly possible.

Q: When using the Cthulhu on a PC, I see Select and Start are buttons 9 and 10, and the Home button is button number 13. How come there is a button 11 and button 12, but nothing ever turns them on?
A: Buttons 11 and 12 are read by the Playstation 3 as L3 and R3, the 'clicks' when you press down on the analog sticks. Even though nothing on the Cthulhu activates them, we still have to send the information to the PS3 so that it believes we are a proper controller.

Q: Why won't the PS3 turn on when I press the Home button?
A: When the PS3 is off, it cuts power to the USB ports. SIXAXIS controllers are the only ones that can wake a PS3 up from being off. No wired controller can ever turn a PS3 on.

Q: When using the Cthulhu on a PC, moving the stick around causes BOTH the X/Y axis to change, and the POV Hat to change to match. When using the Cthulhu on a PS3, moving the stick around causes BOTH the d-pad to change, and the Left analog stick to change to match. Why does this happen, and how could I change it?
A: The Cthulhu is designed to do this; it's normal and won't cause any problems. This setup was created as a compromise between how PC games usually expect the directions to be reported (X/Y axis) and how the PS3 expects the d-pad to be reported (POV hat). With this setup, you can just plug and play on most if not all of the games you want to play on both PC and PS3. If you would like the stick to be reported as one and only one of those for whatever reason, hold down the Select or Start button when plugging in; I don't remember which is which, but one disables the X/Y and only reports dpad/POV hat, the other disables POVhat/dpad and only reports over the left analog stick/X/Yaxis

Q: Where can I access the D+/D- lines for a dual mod?
A: D- (white) can be tapped in the D column. D+ (green) can be tapped in the E column.

Q: Where can I get unassembled kits?
A: You can't unless someone else has new old stock somewhere. I don't make them anymore.

Q: Why don't you make unassembled kits anymore?
A: Because it's a support nightmare that cost more money than they made. Because there is nothing you can do with an unassembled kit that you can't do with an assembled board. Because assembled boards cost as much if not less to make than the kits. Because the assembled boards can be tested and shown to work 100% before I ship them out. Take a look through the pages in this thread and look for problems from people who weren't able to successfully get their kit assembled. Sure, many of them had no problem, and those are great. But compared to the almost 0 number of people who have had difficulty with their assembled Cthulhu boards, people having problems with Cthulhu kits were a full epidemic.

__________________________________________________ ______________
Multi-Console 'MC' Cthulhu questions:

Q: What is it?
A: The MC Cthulhu is the multi-console version of the Cthulhu. It uses a more feature-rich chip that allows for the board to support more than just the PS3.

Q: So what's different?
A: The chip is different, and it comes with diodes that help protect the console in case the cord is plugged into more than one console at a time. The green board is the same, all of the parts are the same, the pinout is the same, etc.

Q: What consoles will it work on?
A: Currently, the MC Cthulhu will work on the PS3 (with all of the functionality of the original PS3 Only Cthulhu), Xbox1, Playstion/Playstation 2, and Gamecube. Playstation support appears to work well with many converters.

Q: What about Wii?
A: The GameCube support will work on any game that supports a GameCube controller. (GG:AC, TvC, Smash Bros, Metal Slug Anthology, etc.)

Q: What about on Smash Brothers?
A: Yes! The Gamecube support in the MC Cthulhu includes two different modes for Smash Brothers play. These modes are very experimental so feel free to speak up any input on how it could be improved. Information on how to enter these modes and how they work can be read up on here: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...&postcount=477

Q: I have a Cthulhu, but I don't know if I have a PS3 only version, or an MC Cthulhu. How can I tell the difference?
A: If the Cthulhu is assembled, just plug it into a PC and check the game controller applet in the Control Panel. The name should be very clear about whether it is meant for PS3/PC or is a MultiConsole version. If the Cthulhu is unassembled, look in the bag for a set of four diodes; MC Cthulhu kits come with diodes, but PS3 Only versions don't. If you're looking at just the chip, look at the first row of text on the chip; the PS3 Only version will have the text 'F24' on it, usually 18F2450. The MC Cthulhu will have the text 'F25' on it, usually 18LF2550.

Q: What about Dreamcast?
A: Not gonna happen. There will have to be an entirely separate board with very different electronics for that to happen. Expect one around 2012, and please withhold any questions about it until 2011. Users have reported success with using the Playstation support in the MC Cthulhu with Dreamcast converters.

Q: What about Xbox360?
A: Nope, same reason as given above.

Q: What about console X?
A: Maybe, but for now I need more feedback on the consoles already supported. No promises, no guarantees.

Q: If I buy now, and then you get console X added, won't I be screwed?
A: No, you'll still be fine. The MC Cthulhu includes a bootloader that allows the firmware to be updated in the even a new console gets added.

Q: I have a PS3 Cthulhu now. Do I have to buy a whole new board?
A: No. Upgrade chips are available. Installation is just a matter of popping the old chip out, popping the new chip in, and soldering the four diodes into place. You can find detailed instructions on the diode installation here:
http://www.instructables.com/id/S3L5P7BFLG5ORV1/

Q: Where can I buy an MC Cthulhu?
A: LizardLick.comand GamingNow.Net both sell MC Cthulhu boards.

Q: How does the board connect to the console?
A: The Cthulhu board has a set of unused holes near the USB jack, labelled with row 1-3 and columns G, A-F, and V. Each one has a specific purpose. For each of the possible consoles you want to use with your stick, you need a cable for that system (from an extension cord or dead controller) and you solder the wires in that cable to specific points on the Cthulhu.

Q: So if I want to play on PS3 and Playstation, I'll need 2 cables coming off of the MC Cthulhu board?
A: Exactly.

Q: And if I want to go the full distance, with Gamecube, PS3, PSX, and Xbox1 all at the same time?
A:Yup, four cables coming out of the box

Q: I don't plan on ever playing on a Gamecube/PSX/Xbox/ConsoleX. Do I have to put in that cable?
A: Nope. Only put in the cable for the consoles you want to play on.

Q: So how do I install the Playstation, or Gamecube, or Xbox1 cable on the MC Cthulhu?
A: Instructables for all supported consoles have been placed. Easiest way to find everything related to the Cthulhu is to go to Instructables.com and search for 'cthulhu' which will bring up everything I've done, and a couple of cool knitting instructions.
Gamecube: http://www.instructables.com/id/How_..._a_Multi_Cons/
PSX: http://www.instructables.com/id/How_...to_a_Multi_Co/
Xbox1: http://www.instructables.com/id/How_...Multi_Console/

Q: I can't seem to get the Xbox1 working properly. When I plug it in, nothing happens.
A: Upgrade the firmware to version 1.3 or better, and Xbox1 will autodetect. If you can't or won't upgrade, hold Left when plugging in the stick.

Q: How do I update the firmware? Where is it?
A: Download the most recent version here: http://www.marcuspost.com/downloads/...CCthulhu13.zip
Read the included readme.txt for directions.

Q: I get a weird error when I try to doubleclick Bootloader.exe?
A: Bootloader requires dotNet, which can be downloaded here: http://www.microsoft.com/NET/

Q: What's the button mappings on all of the consoles?
A:

Spoiler for Button Configs:

Q: What about if we only want one cable on the stick at a time? Is there way to make removable cables?
A: Yes. Please look into this thread which covers how to use RJ-45 modular connections for making cables.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=178604

Q: You said the firmware on the MC Cthulhu can be updated. Can I update the firmware on my current PS3 Only Cthulhu?
A: No. The PS3 Only Cthulhu doesn't contain the ability to update firmware. Even if it did, it wouldn't help; the chip in the MC Cthulhu is much stronger than the chip in the PS3 Cthulhu. There is a piece called the SPI module that is needed for most consoles that just doesn't exist on the PS3 Cthulhu chip.

Q: Can I order console cables from you?
A: Sure. I have extension cables for Playstation and Xbox1 on hand; the same ones used in the Instructables. Price is listed below.

Q: Can I pay you a little extra to install them on the MC Cthulhu for me?
A: I'm sorry but I just can't do that right now. If I had the time, I would, but the SF4 rush currently underway has everything crazy for everyone.

Q: Would it matter what kind of PS cord i use? Do I need a PSX cord or a PS2 cord?
A: PS2 cord is identical to a PSX cord. If it plugs into the controller port on a PSX or a PS2, then it will work for this.

Q: What about converter support?
A:

Spoiler for Tested Converters:

__________________________________________________ _______________
Ordering:

Q: Do you have X in stock?
A: Oh god yes. If there is a price shown, I have them in stock.

If you're interested in ordering, please try ordering from one of our online resellers:

LizardLick.com
GamingNow.net
Gremlin Solutions (UK)

If you can't find what you're looking for, or have other reasons to order from me directly, that's fine, but it really is preferred you go through a reseller when possible.

Q: How do I order?
A: Decide what you'd like to order, add it up and be sure to include shipping. Send a paypal for that amount to marcus@marcuspost.com. Make sure to select 'Goods' when paypal asks what kind of stuff you're buying. On the next screen will be a text box where you can include a comment; please detail what it is you'd like to order in that box. Make sure to select the address you would like it shipped to; the address in the paypal payment will be the address it is shipped to. If you don't want it mailed to that address, ADD A NEW ADDRESS AND PUT IT IN!
That's it. No email or pm or post is needed; the paypal payment will contain your payment, the address for me to send your stuff to, a note with what you want to buy listed; everything I need. When your order is shipped and you're in the US, you can expect a delivery confirmation number in your paypal email when it is sent.

Q: How long will it take to ship?
A: School is currently hitting me pretty hard, and more packages have taken longer than I would like to send out. Because of this, I need to change my policy ; packages will be shipped within 3 business days received payment. Hopefully far sooner, but there have definitely been times when I've needed longer. So, expect 3 business days to ship.

Q: How long will it take to arrive?
A: West Coast: 2-3 days after mailing. East Coast: 3-4 days after mailing. Rest of world: 2 weeks after mailing.

Q: What about tracking?
A: US priority mail includes a delivery confirmation number that can be tracked at USPS.com. It's not bad, but its not awesome. For the rest of the world, the closest thing to a tracking number is the customs declaration number; to date, it hasn't tracked for crap; at best, it just says 'Yes, we received it at such and such time at the post office.' and never goes any further. If international tracking is a priority for you, please contact me about having your order sent Express (EMS). The tracking is much better, and delivery time is usually 1 week, but shipping express is very expensive. Express mail shipping for a single assembled Cthulhu can easily run $30.

Q: What about insurance?
A: Insurance is always available, just add as much to the paypal as you would like to go towards insurance.

ChImp Beta, Unassembled: $30 [7 remaining]
USB jack: $3
Screw Terminals, two pieces, 10 pins each, enough for one board : $8
Assembled PS3 Only Cthulhu board, including screw terminals and USB jack: $40
Assembled MC Cthulhu board, including screw terminals and USB jack: $45
MC Cthulhu Upgrade Chip and diodes: $12

Imp kit: $9

(Both AXISdapter kits and assembled boards come with all screw terminals. I don't have a screw terminal-free option right now.)
AXISdapter unassembled kit: $20
AXISdapter fully assembled and solder-free: $25

360^2 Helper: $9 each (Information: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost...postcount=2376)

USB 15' A-to-B Cable for Cthulhu: $5
USB 1.5' A-to-MiniB Cable for AXISdapter: $4
PSX extension cable: $5
Gamecube extension cable: [SOLD OUT]
Xbox1 extension cable: $5

US Shipping with delivery confirmation:
Up to 9 boards: $6
Up to 30 boards: $12
Any larger: Please feel free to email me.

Canada:
Up to 5 boards: $11
Any larger: Please feel free to email me.

Elsewhere:
Up to 5 boards: $13
Any larger: Please feel free to email me.

Payment:
Paypal address: marcus@marcuspost.com

_

Canto · 08-10-2008, 05:44 PM

These are my opinions:

1) As small as possible
2 and for wiring qs) I think a lot of people are turned off by soldering in general and I think that terminals and places for connectors would be the best thing to do. Just plug up and play is the best thing that an average gamer would want to do. Buy your PCB, connect it and start playing..
3) Daisy chaining
4) see 2
5) Around $50 sounds resonable (about the cost of a new generation controller).

My main usage of one of these would be for PC, PSX (with ability to work with converters), Dreamcast, and xbox360.

slagcoin · 08-10-2008, 05:57 PM

From what I see, people like things simple more than anything. The UPCB is too versatile and complex for most people.

My guess seeing from the posts on these boards is that at this point in time people mostly would like PS2, PS3, and/or Xbox 360 (which I know is tough) PCBs onto which they could easily screw (eurostyle strip) or solder (large solder points) a common ground and each signal wire.

The PCB would be as compact as possible while being easy to attach to wires and mount and would have a D-Sub or USB connector so the cord could be attached and detached easily. It would also come with an 8-foot or so cord because most people do not want to have to go get or make a cord.

Frankly, I think you could perhaps create a market for straight-forward PCBs that people can easily use to create their own controllers. They do not need to function on many systems, and the simpler the better for most people.

Norris Arcade Sticks · 08-10-2008, 06:19 PM

Having worked with your products before, I'm sure that anything you create will be perfect. It is a testament to the community that there are people like you willing to spend your time and experience on projects like this. Awesome. My humble opinions are below.

1) Small as possible (with holes for me to screw through for mounting)

2) Screw terminals so a customer wont need a soldering iron. This will sell more units.
3) Common ground for JLF
4) USB connector for wider customer base
5) $50

Other) PS3 only would be fine, xbox would be a plus for all those games on the hardrive
A buget option without screw terminals, no USB connector only available in quantities of 10 or more for a lower price would be nice.

Toodles · 08-10-2008, 06:31 PM

Keeping in mind that added screw terminals and a USB jack will add something like $10-$15 dollars to the cost of each board, do you honestly feel it would make that big of a difference?

Steve F · 08-10-2008, 06:35 PM

1) Small and flat of course
2) Screw terminals will definitely help a lot with people who cant or won't solder
3) Common ground/Separate i'd say, in case they're piggybacking a non common ground pcb
4) USB connector for sure
5) $50 to $60 is reasonable for something like this .It'd cost more in time and parts to get all these controllers and wire and rewire anyway

The 10-15 extra I think is balanced by the ease of use for the people.

Norris Arcade Sticks · 08-10-2008, 06:41 PM

plus ease of use means you could up the quantity scale significantly to lower the price a little bit.

Disclaimer: I've got no idea about bout how much that stuff costs.

slagcoin · 08-10-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toodles

Keeping in mind that added screw terminals and a USB jack will add something like $10-$15 dollars to the cost of each board, do you honestly feel it would make that big of a difference?

Would it be possible to make it so the same board could optionally have a USB port and/or terminal strip, just making sure there are big solder points where they are installed so the board can function using direct soldering without one or both of those installed?

Big Pockets · 08-10-2008, 07:15 PM

1. Small is good but not thumbnail small. I want to be able to solder to the thing!
2. Screw terminals are nice...and expensive! I would prefer through holes.
3. Couple of ground points.
4. Directly solder.
5. I am looking for a cost effective alternative to buying controllers. I think if the most expensive part of the board is kept to the PIC and the PCB printing, it could be made rather cheaply. To compare its value to that of other controllers is faulty because you would need to buy those controllers for their cords anyway.

slagcoin · 08-10-2008, 07:35 PM

Serious viable pricing for some hypothetical small simple PCBs I think would be (before shipping):
PS2 small PCB + cord: $25-$30
PS3 small PCB + cord: $25-$40
Xbox360 small PCB + cord: $25-$35
PS2 + Xbox360 PCB + cord: $45-$75
PS3 + Xbox360 PCB + cord: $45-$75
USB Connector (installed): +$5-$10
Terminal Strip (installed): +$5-$10

I dunno what actual costs would be for producing these, but I think these prices would be along the lines of what people would be willing to pay.

Toodles · 08-10-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slagcoin

Serious viable pricing for some hypothetical small simple PCBs I think would be (before shipping):
PS2 small PCB + cord: $25-$30
PS3 small PCB + cord: $25-$40

Funny thing is, I think getting USB cables would likely be cheaper than getting PSX cables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slagcoin

Xbox360 small PCB + cord: $25-$35
PS2 + Xbox360 PCB + cord: $45-$75
PS3 + Xbox360 PCB + cord: $45-$75

Heh, sadly, no. I have no way around the MS security, and the very BEST I might ever be able to do would require taking the security chip from a sacrifice controller. I'll make the board as easy I can to dual pcb with a common ground 360 board, but any 360 support built into the board is pretty much right out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slagcoin

USB Connector (installed): +$5-$10
Terminal Strip (installed): +$5-$10

I dunno what actual costs would be for producing these, but I think these prices would be along the lines of what people would be willing to pay.

All of which are reasonable, except the 360 stuff. If the well funded Chinese and Korean grey market hasn't cracked it, no way in hell I can.

slagcoin · 08-10-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toodles

Heh, sadly, no. I have no way around the MS security, and the very BEST I might ever be able to do would require taking the security chip from a sacrifice controller. I'll make the board as easy I can to dual pcb with a common ground 360 board, but any 360 support built into the board is pretty much right out.

Yeah, those ones are hypothetical. Maybe someday someone will come up with something that others can then copy. The strong security of the Xbox 360 controllers has given me a more negative view on the system.

Twinniss · 08-10-2008, 10:33 PM

I think piggyback for two of the most popular console is also a down. Having to have excess room just to get support for a console would upset people. I think people would rather pull off a security chip from a sacrificial controller than trying to fit everything into their stick

I know someone who would rather have screw-ins then being forced to solder. I prefer to insert a wire in and solder(just like em trigger buttons on any pcb, god those solder points really make everything easy). Also being able to use screw ins for piggyback may be a plus as well, but there's probably not enough room on the pcb to add in more screw-ins probably

oh btw you don't have to buy the controller for the cords, i thought it was already mentioned that you can just grab extenstion cords. (and as a plus if you need a usb cord, and 360 piggyback you can just take the usb cord off of a madcatz(since you need a common ground controller)

btw i would love to be able to get those small hrap2 pcbs. maybe it's possible to do a pcb that's like the 360 "lol empty pistol round" mod. In other words, a small pcb but you can switch out the PIC for different console choices.

Edit: Actually in the end i would prefer a pcb that has support for all the consoles, like the current uPCB

crackbone · 08-11-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toodles

Alright, so the UPCB is awesome , but it seems a lot of people are turned off by it; usually some combination of cost, assembly, and/or dealing with the 15 pin connector. All of which I understand, but that's the price that has to be paid for level of utility.

So, the question becomes, what do people want? I've been working with Ed Farias on making a smaller board specifically for PS3, with the possibility of working on other consoles as well. It will be a smaller set of consoles, definitely no Genesis or Jaguar. But a large portion of the consoles out there, such as NES, SNES, Saturn, Gamecube, Xbox, and Playstation, should definitely be doable. Xbox 360 is right out, but doing a dual PCB setup with a common ground Xbox360 pad is very doable.

I guess my question is to everyone at this point. What would be the perfect PCB?
1- Any preference on size? Board right now sits about 1.7"x2.7"
2- How would you want it to be wired up? Through holes for soldering the wires to? Screw terminals?
3- Do you want a separate ground point for each switch, so you can run two wires to each switch, or would you rather daisy chain the ground wires and connect it to a couple of ground points on the board?
4- How do you want to connect the wires to the board? Directly solder the wires to spots on the board, or a USB jack on the board for a uncut USB wire to plug into? (Only applies to USB stuff; other console cables would have the be soldered directly to the board)
5- How much are you willing to pay for such a beastie? Knowing you could make the board work with just about any combination of the above consoles (PS3 and PSX, or PS3, Xbox, PSX and Gamecube, whatever) as long as you brought your own cable.

I'd like to get some feedback, and maybe see if I could sweettalk Chad into carrying them down the road so he'll be a nice one-stop shop for all your parts.

Well, being your most troublesome customer

here's my thoughts:

1. The board size right now is pretty good. Smaller is always better but it's pretty petite right now - if I can fit it easily in an agetec case the size is not an issue. A shot of it next to something for scale would probably help people understand that.

2. Screw terminals all the way. It may be more expensive but dealing with IDC connectors is a pain for the layman (it's not something you can pick up at radio shack and having to solder/wire in a specific order for the ribbon cable adds complexity). Through holes make it harder to remove/reconfigure, and you have to figure a lot of people are going to be very mediocre at soldering which makes lots of soldering points close to each other easy to screw up.

3. Daisy chained, but that's personal preference.

4. USB jack. Again, to widen the potential audience it needs to be as simple as possible.

5. $60 is about as high as I'd go, but that's only because I don't have a big need for the older systems. If it did 360 natively I'd go higher (I know it's out of your control).

slagcoin · 08-11-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toodles

3- Do you want a separate ground point for each switch, so you can run two wires to each switch, or would you rather daisy chain the ground wires and connect it to a couple of ground points on the board?

I probably should have commented on this earlier. :)

There isnt a need to give each signal a ground slot. People can get their own strip, or daisy chain, or splice, or distribute the ground in a multitude of ways.

But I do agree with Big Pockets that two ground connection points would be nice. Two smaller daisy chains are nicer than one huge one. Or having a place specific for a voltage ground is nice. If you could put the two grounds at opposing ends of the board without much trouble that would be nice too.

This stuff reminds me, a 5V connection point is good too. I cannot say I am too familiar with doing LEDs for a joystick, but is there a way to make the PCB (if it isn't already this way) so it gives off enough electricity for multiple LEDs without having to install batteries?

Toodles · 08-11-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slagcoin

I probably should have commented on this earlier. :)

There isnt a need to give each signal a ground slot. People can get their own strip, or daisy chain, or splice, or distribute the ground in a multitude of ways.

But I do agree with Big Pockets that two ground connection points would be nice. Two smaller daisy chains are nicer than one huge one. Or having a place specific for a voltage ground is nice. If you could put the two grounds at opposing ends of the board without much trouble that would be nice too.

Board was tweaked last night to have the same number of connection points on both sides; it currently has 4 spots for connecting to ground that would go to screw terminals. One part goes 'VCC, up, down, left, right, ground' and are meant for the stick, although they are all connected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slagcoin

This stuff reminds me, a 5V connection point is good too. I cannot say I am too familiar with doing LEDs for a joystick, but is there a way to make the PCB (if it isn't already this way) so it gives off enough electricity for multiple LEDs without having to install batteries?

A VCC line is already on the board to go to a screw terminal. As for the LEDs, that's up to the console providing the power, but most of them can, yes.

Norris Arcade Sticks · 08-11-2008, 03:46 PM

So you are already working on a prototype?

A cheap, bare bones option would get mild but constant sales from the brazillions of stick builders these days.

A more expensive, solderless option would sell like the hot cake.

Would it be possible to sell the screw terminal strip and the usb plug seperate? And the solder skilled would simply connect where the terminal and plug would solder on?

Toodles · 08-11-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMO Gaming

So you are already working on a prototype?

Of course :) A prototype on a piece of stripboard was made weeks ago; the initial layout for PCB fab was made about the same time. I made some revisions to it yesterday so the number of screw terminals on both sides would be the same, and place the USB connector, but its otherwise unchanged from the original design; boards made from the first design should arrive any day, but those are for Ed with a couple for me to test on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMO Gaming

A cheap, bare bones option would get mild but constant sales from the brazillions of stick builders these days.

A more expensive, solderless option would sell like the hot cake.

The entire thing is 57 through hole solder points; another 26 through hole solder points if you include screw terminals and USB connector. Dead simple stuff. Because this will be new for me, I suspect I'll just get a small batch of boards and parts and end up doing the soldering myself until/unless there ends up being a big enough demand to get preassembled ones. There are over 200 solder points on a UPCB.

The spots where the wires or screw terminals are to go are overly large spots, with 5mm between holes, so its already good for direct soldering or screw terminals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMO Gaming

Would it be possible to sell the screw terminal strip and the usb plug seperate? And the solder skilled would simply connect where the terminal and plug would solder on?

Solder skills for the board are stupid simple. As for making an option with USB jack and screw terminals, I think I'll do that. I think I'll have four things available:
1- Board, already assembled, solder your own button wires and console cables to.
2- Solderless option: same as above but with screw terminals and USB jack. No soldering required if you're wanting PS3/USB. Screw in the wires, plug in a USB cable, and go. (Just like the GameWiz board in Slagcoin's site he used in one of his example sticks.)
3- Bare kit, assembly required, no jack or screw terminals.
4- Solderless, with PSX cable already soldered in.

slagcoin · 08-11-2008, 06:58 PM

I'm very excited to see what you come up with. I'd really like to some small PCBs meant for PSX, PS2, and/or PS3.

You mention the GameWiz which is very similar to some made by Ultimarc. Things that bother me about them include bulkiness (do not need one made for two players), made for PC (might as well be a PS3 or 360 instead nowadays; even PSX or PS2 is better considering converters), and expense (should not cost as much as it does for how little it can do in a single player controller). But wiring and utilizing those things are extremely easy.

If you could perhaps make it so the PCB could fit between the joystick and leftmost button in at least a 95mm-spaced layout, then maybe the USB connector could be placed facing out of one of the thin ends of the PCB, and a hole could be made in the front of the controller so the USB cable could be inserted and removed direct into and out of the PCB itself. (I think I need to make an image to show you what I mean exactly.)

I'd definitely be interested in getting some PCBs like you are thinking of making even though I have a ton of controller PCBs sitting around from all the diagrams I've made (I'll be up to about 45 different controller PCB diagrams on my next update).

slagcoin · 08-11-2008, 07:59 PM

Okay, I quickly hacked one of my other images to explain. Basically the PCB would be small enough to fit between the joystick and buttons in many layouts and have the connector facing the front of the controller. The layout of the PCB does not need to be the same as the image to achieve this; maybe the connector could be on the left side to center it better. And maybe the PCB could be narrow as to run lengthwise along the front of the controller with the connector facing out a long side. I'm not sure how appealing others would find this.

Toodles · 08-11-2008, 08:03 PM

That's kinda funny. Where you have the stick connected, and where you have the play buttons connected are IDENTICAL to what's already in. Start, select, the fourth kick and fourth punch buttons (optional of course, you dont have to use them) are on the same side as the stick connections on the USB end (upper right on your pic), and the Home/PSX button is on the side with the main play buttons closer to the USB connector (upper left on the pic).

slagcoin · 08-11-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toodles

That's kinda funny. Where you have the stick connected, and where you have the play buttons connected are IDENTICAL to what's already in. Start, select, the fourth kick and fourth punch buttons (optional of course, you dont have to use them) are on the same side as the stick connections on the USB end (upper right on your pic), and the Home/PSX button is on the side with the main play buttons closer to the USB connector (upper left on the pic).

Just through those points together in a few minutes. :) Sounds good how you're putting it together.

Zanken · 08-11-2008, 11:48 PM

Was just feeling depressed about my pelican converter dying, and the hrap sitting in my closet drawer having a half soldered mess of wires from months before that I can't be bothered getting around to. Reading something like this sounds exciting.

The only platforms that seem relevant being a fighter fan would be DC, PS2, PC, 360 and PS3.

Given that the DC and 360 are not really viable, I'd be happy happy paying about $50 for a board with the solderless option you've supplied Toodles, that does PC/PS3 and PS2. I'm Australian, so shipping might end up being hefty for us, but a group of us in Melbourne would probably do a bulk order.

We pay up to $60 extra to import sticks here, they aren't sold locally and we don't really have local stick makers, so the investment would be worth it for us.

Mayhem · 08-12-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toodles

How would you want it to be wired up? Through holes for soldering the wires to? Screw terminals?

Through-hole spots with 2.54 mm / 0.1" pitch would be perfect, that way people could either solder directly to the PCB or install whatever compatible header they can find in their local market (JST-NH, Molex KK, etc.).

Toodles · 08-12-2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhem

Through-hole spots with 2.54 mm / 0.1" pitch would be perfect,

The spots for the button/stick wires to go area 5mm pitch, with a rather large drill hole and very large pad; that makes it perfect for the 5mm pitch screw terminals, and easier to solder than most of the pads Eagle gives me. I'll try it out when it gets here, but it wouldn't surprise me for the holes to take 22guage wire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhem

that way people could either solder directly to the PCB or install whatever compatible header they can find in their local market (JST-NH, Molex KK, etc.).

If the UPCB has taught me anything, its that while WE may have a stash of different connectors and headers in our bits boxes, the VAST majority of the potential customers don't, and anything dealing with them becomes expensive and overall pain in the ass. So I absolutely do NOT want to rely on the customer having anything more than a screwdriver for this. I'm seriously debating about picking up some #4 screws to include screws for mounting the board, just to try and be complete.

Yes, I could have made the holes and spacing 100mil spacing, and that would have been a small boon for those who like having proper connectors, but compared to the larger 5mm pitch and pads that are almost a full 100mil across, I think the boon for those that need the least heartache is worth it.

All of the connectors for buttons and power needed for a dual pcb setup were also routed to the end of the board opposite the USB connector; That should make it a bit more convienent for dual pcb setups, but most wont need it.