Dictator frame data: Bison Dollars For All!

DS · 10-15-2008, 08:12 PM

Code:

Key:  

L = low

M = medium

H = high


P = punch

K = kick

EX = EX version of special

x = not avalable

* = this is the I cant read japanese star

How information works :

Start up/hit/recovery/grd adv/hit adv/grd recov/hit recov/dmg/stun/gauge

Close attacks:

Code:

LP:
6/2/5/+4/+7/10/13/30//50/20

MP:
7/3/12/-1/+2/13/16/90/100/40

FP:
8/3/16/-1/+4/17/22/120/200/60

LK:
4/2/6/+3/+6/10/13/30/50/20

MK:
7/3/9/+2/+5/13/16/90/100/40

HK:
6/3/16/-1/+3/17/21/120/200/60

Far attacks:

Code:

LP:
5/2/7/+2/+5/10/13/20/50/20

MP:
8/3/11/+-0/+3/13/16/90/100/40

HP:
11/2/19/-3/+1/17/21/130/200/60

LK:
4/2/6/+3/+6/10/+13/30/50/20

MK:
6/3/14/-3/+-0/13/16/70/100/40

HK:
6/3/16/-1/+3/17/21/120/200/60

Crouch attacks:

Code:

LP:
4/2/7/+2/+5/10/13/30/50/20

MP:
7/2/9/+3/+6/13/16/80/100/40

HP:
12/4/21/-7/-2/17/22/110/200/60

LK: 
3/2/8/+1/+4/10/13/20/50/20

MK: 
5/4/11/-1/+2/13/16/70/100/40

HK:
15/12/16/-10/X/17/X/110/200/60

Neutral Jump(straight jump):

Code:

LP:
6/6/X/X/X/8/11/50/50/20

MP:
7/7/X/X/X/11/15/90/100/40

HP:
6/8/X/X/X/15/18/110/200/60

LK:
6/12/X/X/X/8/11/40/50/20

MK:
7/10/X/X/X/11/15/80/100/40

HK:
6/10/X/X/X/15/18/100/200/60

Diagonal jump(Up forward jump):

Code:

LP:
6/7/X/X/X/8/11/50/50/20

MP:
7/3/X/X/X/11/15/50/50/40

HP:
8/8/X/X/X/15/18/110/200/60

LK:
5/7/X/X/X/8/11/40/50/20

MK:
6/14/X/X/X/11/15/70/100/40

HK:
7/6/X/X/X/15/18/100/200/60

j.MP:
6/4/X/X/X/11/15/30/50/20

FADC:

Code:

LVL1:
22/2/34/-20/-20/15/15/60/100/20

LVL2:
17(+13)/2/34/-14/X/21/X/90/150/40

LVL3:
66/2/34/X/X/X/X/150/200/60

Throws:

Code:

f+LP+LK:
3/2/20/X/X/X/X/130/130/40/0.9

b+LP+LK:
3/2/20/X/X/X/X/130/150/40/0.9

Psycho Crusher(

):

Code:

LP:
14/12.11/12+*6/-8/X/20/X/110/100/[30/40]

MP:
14/14.13/12+*10/-14/X/20/X/120/150/[30/40]

HP:
14/17.16/12+*10/-17/X/20/X/130/200/[30/40]

EX Psycho Crusher:

Code:

14/23/12+*6/-16/X/24/X/70.70/100.100/[0/0]

Scissors kick(

):

Code:

LK:
10/2(1)4/*17/+-0/X/20/24.-/60.40/100.50/[20/16x2]

MK:
13/2(1)4/*22/-5/X/20/24.-/60.50/100.50/[20/16x2]

HK:
16/2(1)4/*25/-8/X/20/24.-/70.60/100.50/[20/16x2]

EX Scissors kick:

Code:

13/2(1)4/*25/-8/X/20/24.-/70.70/100.50/[0/0]

Headstomp(

):

Code:

22/until landing/(landing)16/X/X/20/25/120/100/[20/30]

EX Headstomp:

Code:

22/until landing/(landing)16/X/X/20/X/200/200/[0/0]

Headstomp dropdown(wiggle the stick to control where he lands):

Code:

X/X/*4/X/X/X/X/X/X/X

Punch follow-up(

):

Code:

17+7/3/*13/+9/+13/22/26/120/100/[20/30]

EX version:

Code:

17+7/3/*13/+10/+14/22/26/80.80/100.100/[0/0]

Devil's Reverse without tapping:

Code:

X/X/*48/X/X/X/X/X/X/[0/0]

Devil Reverse(

)[glow fist]]:

Code:

13+34/*/*16/X/X/13/X/110/150/[20/30]

EX version:

Code:

13+34/*/*16/X/X/13/X/80.80/100.100/[0/0]

Warp(Teleport, your pick):

Code:

X/X/*42/X/X/X/X/X/X/X

Knee Press Nightmare(

):

Code:

LK:
1+*5/2(1)2(11)2.2(8)18/30/-27/X/20/X/60x4.100/0/[0/0]

MK:
1+*11/2(1)2(11)2.2(8)18/30/-27/x/20/60x4.100/0/[0/0]

HK:
1+*15/2(1)2(11)2.2(8)18/30/-27/X/20/X/60x4.100/0/[0/0]

Ultra(

):

Code:

1+*11/4.2(12)2.2(16)12x3/30+*18/-35/X/25/X/40x5.160/0/[0/0]

EDIT - I'll revise this later.

POscrub · 10-15-2008, 11:59 PM

Small correction: Head stomp whiffed should be Devil's Reverse without tapping, and Devil Reverse without tapping should become Vega Warp (Teleport) Teleport is all recovery, hence the 全.

For the *'s associated with the active frames of headstomp, should be "until landing".

For the *'s associated with the recovery of headstomp, etc. it should be after landing, or landing + X (frames of recovery)

Fun stuff:

All of Bison's moves charge in 55F. No more had to psycho crusher because I didn't have charge for Scissors.

Pretty interesting that LK Super is so much faster than the others. One of the few supers where the strength makes a visible difference? Madness.

DS · 10-16-2008, 12:10 AM

Done and done. Thanks a lot. Just notify me if anything needs to be changed.

Kisou · 10-16-2008, 03:59 AM

What do the () in the active/hitting frames indicate? (ie. Scissor kicks = 2(1)4)) Invincibility?

noodleman · 10-16-2008, 05:54 AM

it means pause between the hits most likely. so 2 hits frames, follow by a 1 frame of no hit frames, then 4 more hit frames for the second hit.

Anakron · 10-16-2008, 02:29 PM

cr.strong is too fresh!

POscrub · 10-16-2008, 07:11 PM

Bison notes:

close st. HP: Forces opponent to stand on hit
cr. HP: Forces opponent to stand on hit
cr. RH: Knockdown
Jumping attacks: feet invincibility to projectiles [compared to not doing anything, doing a move gets hit feet up and out of the way]
j. MP: Floats opponent, can perform follow up attack anytime between end of active frames and before touching the ground.
j. MP(2nd): Puts opponent in juggleable state.

FA lvl 1:
1-10F or 1F after button's are released: Has super armor.
Crumples on ground CH. Puts opponent in juggleable state on air hit. From frames 5-11 or on hit/block can cancel into dash/back dash. If charged, saving attack hits on frame 13 after releasing the buttons.

FA lvl 2: 1 ~ 1F after button's are released: Has super armor.
Crumples on ground hit. Floats on air hit. From frames 5~buttons released or on hit/block can cancel into dash/back dash. Charge time: 17-49F. If charged, saving attack hits on frame 13 after releasing the buttons.

FA lvl 3: 1 ~ 65F has super armor. Breaks super armor.
Crumples on ground hit. Floats on air hit. From frames 5~50 can cancel into dash/back dash. Charge time: 50F.

f+LP+LK: Knockdown. Opponent gets up 55F after throw recovers.
b+LP+LK: Knockdown. Opponent gets up 61F after throw recovers.

Psychocrusher:
LP: 37-48 throw invincibility. 15~ airborne. 14-36 can pass through opponent. Puts opponent in juggleable state. Breaks super armor. Listed frame advantage is if up to the 2nd hit of the psychocrusher is blocked. Charge time 55F.

MP: 41-52 throw invincibility. 16~ airborne. 14-40 can pass through opponent. Puts opponent in juggleable state. Breaks super armor. Listed frame advantage is if up to the 2nd hit of the psychocrusher is blocked. Charge time 55F.

HP: 47-58 throw invincibility. 16~ airborne. 14-46 can pass through opponent. Puts opponent in juggleable state. Breaks super armor. Listed frame advantage is if up to the 2nd hit of the psychocrusher is blocked. Charge time 55F.

EX: 1-13 Invincible. 37-48 throw invincibility. 15~ airborne. 14-36 can pass through opponent. Puts opponent in juggleable state. Breaks super armor. Can juggle. Counts as a fireball. Listed frame advantage is if up to the 2nd hit of the psychocrusher is blocked. Charge time 55F.

Scissor Kicks:

LK: 12~16 airborne. 1st hit on air hit or 2nd hit puts opponent in juggleable state. Charge time 55.

MK: 15~19 airborne. 1st hit on air hit or 2nd hit puts opponent in juggleable state. Charge time 55.

RH: 18-22~ airborne. 1st hit on air hit or 2nd hit puts opponent in juggleable state. Charge time 55.

EX: 1-12 Invincible. 15~19 airborne. 1st hit on air hit or 2nd hit puts opponent in juggleable state. Can Juggle. Charge time 55.

Headstomp:

Normal: 1~ Airborne. Listed startup is for when opponent is at point blank. Startup is distance dependent, slower if the opponent is farther. Tracks (searches) for opponent's position [on start]. On hit or block, Bison performs a bounce off animation (can move 12F faster than opponent). Charge time 55F.

EX Headstomp: Invincible until end of startup. 1~ Airborne. Knockdown on ground hit. Puts opponent in juggleable state on air hit. Listed startup is for when opponent is at point blank. Startup is distance dependent, slower if the opponent is farther. Tracks (searches) for opponent's position [on start]. On hit or block, Bison performs a bounce off animation (can move 12F faster than opponent). Charge time 55F.

Headstomp bounce: During the stomp, can hold left or right to determine which way Bison bounces. During bounce, can control horizontal movement with joystick. Commands can be buffered during the recovery after landing. 18~ Followup attack can be performed.

Skull Diver: Listed frame advantage is for skull diver performed as low to the ground as possible. Can control horizontal movement with joystick.

EX Skull Diver: Can juggle. Listed frame advantage is for EX skull diver performed as low to the ground as possible. Can control horizontal movement with joystick.

Devil's Reverse:

Devil's Reverse (before tapping): EX version only, 1-13F invincible. 1~44 airborne. Commands can be buffered during recovery after landing. Tracks (searches) for opponent's position [on start]. 12-38 can perform follow up attack. Charge time 55F.

Devil's Reverse: Puts opponent in juggleable state. Can control horizontal movement with joystick.

Devil's Reverse EX: Puts opponent in juggleable state. Can juggle. Can control horizontal movement with joystick.

Teleport:
1-29 Invincible. Teleport complete on frame 12.

Kneepress Nightmare:

1 ~ 7 frames after super flash, invincible. 33-59 (slide part of super) can pass through opponent. Hits 1-4 on air hit place the opponent in jugglable knockdown state. Hit 5 knockdown. Can juggle. Opponent gets up 28F after Bison recovers fully. Charge time 55F.

1 ~ 9 frames after super flash, invincible. 39-65 (slide part of super) can pass through opponent. Hits 1-4 on air hit place the opponent in jugglable knockdown state. Hit 5 knockdown. Can juggle. Opponent gets up 28F after Bison recovers fully. Charge time 55F.

1 ~ 11 frames after super flash, invincible. 43-69 (slide part of super) can pass through opponent. Hits 1-4 on air hit place the opponent in jugglable state (cannot safe fall). Hit 5 knockdown. Can juggle. Opponent gets up 28F after Bison recovers fully. Charge time 55F.

Nightmare Booster:

1 ~ 15 frames after super flash, invincible. 49~ airborne. 61~114 can pass through opponent. Knockdown. If a hit connects, the rest of the super is guaranteed. If the psychocrusher part of the super connects, the finish animation (stomp) will be performed (damage 160). Opponent gets up 23F after Bison recovers fully. Charge time 55F.

Desk · 10-17-2008, 02:54 AM

^^very, very, very useful. Thanks for that dude.

noodleman · 10-17-2008, 06:22 AM

kinda strange that they decided to keep bison grounded for most of the scissor kicks....there's only 4 airborn frames....

kinda confirms that he can be thrown out of scissors (not that we needed it).

Ultima · 10-17-2008, 06:49 AM

Thanks a lot Deathscythe and POScrub.

A couple queries:

Am I reading this right: c.LP gives +5 on hit, and c.MK's startup is 5. Shouldn't that link be impossible then? The way I've always read frame data, for a move with 5 startup to link, you need at least +6 HA, cause the move only starts to hit on frame 6. So what gives here?

Also, I'm a bit confused by the terms "puts opponent in jugglable state" and "can juggle". I have a vague idea, but I'd appreciate a better explanation. Especially with regard to Bison's moves, cause I'm really not sure what putting an opponent into juggleable state means with regard to his Psycho Crusher and his Scissors Kick.

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.

noodleman · 10-17-2008, 06:59 AM

maybe it was cr.lp on counter hit? I always do cr.lp, close st.lp, cr.mk xx scissors.

Ultima · 10-17-2008, 08:22 AM

noodleman:

One of my main crossup combos with Bison is j.MK, c.lp x 2, c.MK, Scissors Kick. 6 hit combo. No CH on c.LP.

POscrub · 10-17-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultima

Thanks a lot Deathscythe and POScrub.

A couple queries:

Am I reading this right: c.LP gives +5 on hit, and c.MK's startup is 5. Shouldn't that link be impossible then? The way I've always read frame data, for a move with 5 startup to link, you need at least +6 HA, cause the move only starts to hit on frame 6. So what gives here?

Also, I'm a bit confused by the terms "puts opponent in jugglable state" and "can juggle". I have a vague idea, but I'd appreciate a better explanation. Especially with regard to Bison's moves, cause I'm really not sure what putting an opponent into juggleable state means with regard to his Psycho Crusher and his Scissors Kick.

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.

Difference in standards. Frame data in column format seems to take startup to be first active frame occurs on frame X. So it'd be X-1 frames of startup. See Guilty Gear, Hokuto no Ken mooks, etc. CvS2 had those coloured bars which represented length. So yes going by this notation, +5 is good enough to link a listed 5 startup move. Go figure.

As for the juggles thing, same example as the other thread. First hit of Bison's j. MP, you can juggle anything you want after it. Do the 2nd hit, and only certain moves will juggle. So it's a list of moves that can put people in this special state, and moves that can juggle them once they're in. Not feeling particularly creative, so if you can figure out a better way to express it, I'm all for it.

SiMan · 10-18-2008, 03:34 AM

So how does "juggleable state" apply to psycho crusher and scissors etc?

Cheers for all the great info guys!

Ultima · 10-19-2008, 07:25 AM

POScrub re: data

I have several mooks with frame data, and there's nothing in there to suggest a difference in standards to me, so I still don't get it. :(

As for the juggle thing, I understand the j.MP, j/MPx2 difference. But as SiMan asked, how does that relate to Psycho Crusher and Scissors Kick (and Devil Reverse)? According to the description, this means I can follow up Psycho Crusher and Scissors Kicks with moves "that can juggle" like EX Psycho Crusher? So, Devil Reverse -> EX Psycho Crusher will work then?

Oh, another question I forgot to ask: According to the data, there are three variants to everyone's super, but for the most part, only based on start up?What purpose does this serve?

EDIT:

Okay, I think I got it now, re: frame data. If Gief's SPD is listed as 2 start up, it means here that it's active on frame 2, which means it really has 1F start up the way it's commonly used. In other words, we might want to consider subtracting 1 from everyone's start up to keep it consistent with the way we normally calculate things. Or at least make a note of it in the frame data write ups.

SiMan · 10-20-2008, 02:05 PM

What does 1+*11 mean for ultra startup btw?

Cheers

noodleman · 10-20-2008, 03:14 PM

the * is the ultra flash, where he does his throat slit motion before the hits come. so there's 1 frame before the flash, the flash happens, then 11 frames of start up after the flash.

Tizoc · 10-21-2008, 04:41 AM

Is it me or do BOTH Ultra and Super do about the same amount of damage?

noodleman · 10-21-2008, 05:55 AM

yup. the ultra listed is when the bar is 50% full. full ultra does 1.5x damage, so it's 360x1.5 = 540.

Tizoc · 10-23-2008, 11:16 AM

Thanks for clearing it up. Huh this reminds me of RB2 where P. Powers do just a little bit more damage than S. Powers. ...except that P. Powers are usually easy to combo into for big damage.

Arlieth Tralare · 10-28-2008, 12:01 AM

Man, this juggle list is weird as hell. In the Master Guide it says Dictator's juggle-state (launcher) attacks are Hell Attack (j.MP-MP) and EX Head Press (Mid-Air Hit). But for juggle attacks themselves, it ONLY lists EX Skull Diver and his Ultra. But I know his Hell Attack sets up for a juggle with Psycho Crusher (normal, not EX!). Is this a typo?

SiMan · 11-04-2008, 01:04 PM

Can anyone explain the startup for level 1 focus attack?

It says on the tabulated section that it has 22 frames startup, but on the side notes it says attack comes out 13 frames after releasing buttons.
And then why do you only have super armour frames 1-10 and 1 after release?

Cheers

WraithCo · 11-04-2008, 10:29 PM

If you only tap MP+MK, and don't hold the buttons at all, you still get some armor at the start. Roughly the part where Bison is leaning back and getting that big ol' grin on his face. If you don't hold MP+MK, Bison attacks as soon as possible. So the quickest lvl 1 FA that hits has startup 22. But what if you charge it up? If you're holding down the buttons, the startup is delayed by however long you hold down MP+MK. So you can think of an FA being 3 parts

1) Bison has to step back till he's standing straight up. Armored.
2) He's standing straight up, you can hold this part. Armored.
3) Let go of the buttons, and he actually does the punch

part 1 and 3 are fixed in animation length, part 2 is the part you can extend to delay the attack and is armored. If you're into math, work backwards. Part 3 takes 13F. Actual attack has startup 22F. There's a difference of 9F, whichi must be part's 1 and 2. And since the note says armor extends to 1F past part 2, that's where you get 1-10F is armored (for quickest possible FA).

SiMan · 11-05-2008, 06:10 AM

Sadly I do like maths so that made total sense! Thanks man.

I think it's confusing how they list it having 1-10F super armour etc, assuming you have just pressed MP+MK (ie. not hold them).

So essentially,
level 1 = minimum of 22 frame startup
level 2 = minimum of 30 frame startup
level 3 = 66 frame starup

That right?

FullMetalRoss · 11-05-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlieth Tralare

Man, this juggle list is weird as hell. In the Master Guide it says Dictator's juggle-state (launcher) attacks are Hell Attack (j.MP-MP) and EX Head Press (Mid-Air Hit). But for juggle attacks themselves, it ONLY lists EX Skull Diver and his Ultra. But I know his Hell Attack sets up for a juggle with Psycho Crusher (normal, not EX!). Is this a typo?

I thought it was the fact that when something puts you in juggle state you can juggle most things after it, even attacks taht are none juggle attacks, while other things that are "juggle attacks" can juggle after an attack that doesn't cause the juggle state... or something like that.