Smash vs. The Fighting World

[Voltiare]

This came up in the AllisFighter thread and I was wondering what the story was behind it. I'm not a tournament player or anything like that so I was wondering what about the Smash community that sets traditional fighter's into a rage.

Is it the game? Is it a problem with Brawl, Melee, or both?
Is it the people? Are they annoying? Are they immature?
Is it because the game wasn't designed to be competitive, but just became that way as players broke the fighting mechanics?

I want to be clear that I am not defending Smash or traditional fighters. I have no problems saying that SF4 is a more competitive game than Brawl in every way (as Nintendo wanted) and I am having a great time playing and learning. I was just curious about the gap between Smash and other fighting game communities. Let us hope this doesn't turn into a flame war.

[Rioting Soul]

Politics

[Dandy J]

its cause your all stupid kids and were all stupid adults sorry we just arent gonna get along

[-=KOH=-]

There's a lot to it.

But there are a lot of the reasons, I've heard throughout the years.
I'm going to keep my opinion as unbiased as possible.

Some of the reasons.

A majority of SRK members assume the demographic is of a younger age, I would not be surprised if this were true, but honestly that doesn't mean much.

The smash community is all politics, a group of players ala the smash back room, control the tier lists, the rules, etc.

The smash community "nuthugs" top players in the community by making them into community celebrities, sure we have them here too, just not as many, afaik.

The smash community, modifies the game to play how they want it to, via the in game settings. The community here struggles to keep everything in the game, regardless, minus console only and boss chars. (although this has changed with sf4). This is something SRK looks down upon.

The hate started to ease after evo2k7 for a while.

People even started calling it marvel jr and shit. well things changed in 2k8 when evo decided on its own ruleset (because the game was new, and just because items were in melee and now brawl doesn't make them broken....yet) basically.. When the smash community started shit talking Evo, because of this.

Srk dropped the smash community hug, and shit took a turn for the worse.

Just a short recap I'm sure I fucked something up there.

[NegroNinja]

Uh..."traditional" fighters will fly off the handle on any given subject, some can't even stand some of the games that would be considered "traditional". You got your 3s haters, your Guilty Gear haters, you Arcana/Melty/Moe haters, you DONJON haters..and your smash haters...

granted there is a higher volume of smash haters, but I'm pretty sure the reasoning is almost the same. "I don't like this, I don't like that" simple as that.

As for me, there's also the fact that the last time I was in a room full of smash peeps I wanted to drop the Macho Man elbow on the lot of them.

[Hecatom]

for my experience, is the people, the way they act and the way they bash over other games like if that would make more credible that smash is in a fact a competitive game, they tend to act more like fanboys, they are inmature, i know that in every community i would find that kind of people, but in the smash community (or any nintendo related community for the matters) this is more frequent, i enjoy playing smash, i even ran some tournaments of it with other traditional fighting games as well, i met some people that are great, and we even became friends, but they were just a little portion of the players, the rest of them were merely nintendo fanboys and stupid brats that bash games like tekken, sf, gg, cuz "they arent good as smash" or they are too much complex or any stupid reason that they make.

[Hazank0]

smash is a good party game and is very fun. For a four player get together, smash is pretty unique and unconventional enough to satisfy anyone.

that said, it is a TERRIBLE fighting game.

edit: I have the right to say these things because I was into smash pretty hard about 2 years ago.

[fallot]

This came up in the AllisFighter thread

And there it should stay.

[Tru=]

EDIT: threads like these probably shouldnt be made just because they never seem to end well unless closed before then.ah syxx beat me to saying it =p

[Syxx573]

no versus threads

[NamyNam]

:x ive been competing in traditional fighters since like 2000 and i also picked up melee/brawl somewhere along there and Its hard for me to say smash is a traditional fighter...i dont really care about how rules are altered or what not cause to me it makes sense why some things were taken out...but the main major factor why I say smash is different is because of traditional fighting game mechanics...

In SF, if you do something risky and ur opponent predicts u, u should be punished, like being counterpoked or even jus jumping over a fireball. If you're thinking that ur opponent is going to throw a fireball, u can attempt to jump over and punish them, but if u guess wrong you get srk'd and now u have pressure on wake up, so ur now at a disadvantage (this sounds GOOD). Now in Brawl lets say u want to air dodge, i come up at you, and u air dodge, making me whiff...Ok, fine, but lets say i predict that ur going to air dodge, I jump up, i wait, u dodge, and then i hit u in the few frames that u r recovering after the dodge...I get basically 1 hit for less than 10% and u basically get ur spacing away from me and get to try again to come back to the ledge....What im tryin to say is that basically SF players go through a lot more mindgames and pressure, where Brawl has weaker ideas of both...Melee is different imo cause u can die in like 5 seconds...That and yes SF players sit at the big table.

[RXS]

from personal experience.. this is what i found...

Good stuff

- There are alotta nice guys that play smash

- Smash is definitly fun to play with 4 people

Bad stuff

- i disagree that Smash is a TRADITIONAL fighter.. it's really a cross between platformer and fighter..in the sense that a fighting game pits 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 matches.. where you jump/hit each other.. but at the same time in smash there is a platforming element where you jump around on different parts of a stage.... i'm talking SF1 compared to like megaman 1... smash is kind of a cross in ways.

- the majority (this is just from my own experience) of smash players are just plain fan boys of Nintendo. Hence a prevalent xbox/ps3 hate vibe.

- lack of knowledge of ANYTHING else other than the Nintendo bubble. Once again this doesn't apply to everyone. i love the random comments from some of these guys about SF or other games in general. like "I will never play a shoto because it's cheap and all about throwing fireball after fireball" yet they pick Akuma because "thats all i know and you're cheap"

Why I almost never take smash players seriously:

1) Lack of knowledge out side of Nintendo games. As per above, just the sheer stupidity of some comments and lack of any type of research before saying something about SF or any other game thats not part of the Nintendo bubble. Stuff like " i heard ryu and sakura are supposed to be in love and thats why they share some moves"

2) fanboyism to the extreme. No comments on this one.. but this is just rediculous. I can understand if you have a PREFERENCE over things.. but some guys just worship smash as the best game ever not only that, they try to preach it like the bible

3) the rage/whining when losing to stupid shit that they don't know how to defend. ie. i have a buddy who played smash against some guys that were "seasoned players" or so they thought. My buddy destroyed them by spamming one move with a random character. his exact comments were "everytime he came at me i just hit this button. Everytime he jumped i did this. i smacked him everytime cuz he kept doing the same thing over and over." of course the smash players whined and complained about it being "cheap". Of course not that this doenst' happen on xbox live or PSN on SF4 lol

Anyways thats my rant

[SF3LP]

smash ppl tryin to shove themselves into a really competitive scene is not the way to go

thats why we beasted them in that thread

me personally i beasted cuz i didnt like the fact it said "the NEW home for street fighter" when in fact we dont need one....plus it was created by smash players so what does that say about there knowledge of street fighter or fighters in general

besides theyre not that nice to begin with...you ask a simple question on what tactic does what for example and ppl do nothing but burn the person to hell and back...and that goes on for about 5 pages...at least here we only do that in the GD forum but thats it...they do that in their own smash threads, character specific forums too

[Ghostal]

no versus threads

[mr_punk]

trust me, you don't want to know the reasons. OTOH, if you derive some kind of sick entertainment value from watching extreme cases of mental retardation and arrested adolescence. ask away.

[wolfox_okamicha]

Yeah, the fandom is the one that gets me. A lot of them are only limited to Nintendo/Sega.

[Canto]

Its because street fighter players are elitists and when something as entertaining or fun to play starts getting more popular than street fighter they denounce it, deny it, and close their minds swiftly.

And smash dudes try to set it up as a 1v1 thing and it really isn't that type of game. Its supposed to be wacky and random lol.

[metalmike31216]

One reason I don't dig as much( I don't hate at all), I helped run a few tourneys that featured Brawl. We asked the Smash community what rules they wanted to use on the forums(Smashboards). They gave us a rule set.
Come tournament time they completely ignored the rules. They would make there own rules as they went. They tried throwing people off other tvs just to run casuals when others were runnning tournaments. They were very disrespectful to everyone that wasn't one of them. Left trash everywhere. Basically acted like a bunch of children.

[Voltiare]

EDIT: threads like these probably shouldnt be made just because they never seem to end well unless closed before then.ah syxx beat me to saying it =p

It shouldn't because the opinions seem pretty unanimous.

And to clarify, I was saying that Smash is not a traditional fighter. It is a fighter, but it's just different.

[Mr.SNK]

I always thought when you took the time to learn a 2d fighter you became a prick...Wait... A 2d fighter with Stable Mechanics.... Yeah...

A few of my friends play smash and all have giant ego's about the game but a few days ago one of them asked me to teach them the basic's of SF.. Low and behold about 3 hours passed and I ended up getting frustrated after hearing countless hours of bitching and complaining.

The local comic store was having a 30% off sale the same day as a "Smash" Tourney and when I was shopping around all I could hear was screaming and shit talking... They left garbage all over the place and even knocked some shit over... I think the smash players enjoy the simplicity of the game compared to the other 2d games on the community.

Smash stay's on Smash side and us pricks need to stay on SRK.

[BlodiaVulcan5]

The folks inside the smash community disagree too much amongst themselves about rules set, game mechanics, character tiers, and stage selections. Brawl isn't as rigid as SF/GG/VF/T5/SC/KOF/3S/whatever. Becuase any which way can possibly work, everyone thinks their way is better. Wherein lies the problem: immaturity and Ego tripping.

[HardBody]

People who think smash is above all fighting games, have clearly never been to a competitive arcade before. And yes there are still a few around!

[VagrantLest]

The biggest reason is their community.

When the Ice Climbers infinite throw was discovered(not even yest utilized effectively) tons of smash players screamed their heads off for a ban. SRK members came in, trying to explain what it means to have bad match ups and avoid parlor tricks etc. They screamed that Smash was nothing like Street Fighter.

I started playing Melee to give my best friend someone to play with(and to try to get him into 3S.) That game 1 on 1 no items and with 2 or 3 stages off is a good game. I had fun with it, but when I saw those thread on smashboards where SRK was trying to help and and children screamed their lungs out I lost most of my interest in that game. The community is just too bad.

[KWASIA]

i think smash is a great game and a lot more people would play it if the cast consisted of snakes, samus, marths and captain falcons. but people get turned off when their opponent picks jiggle puff. i love the game myself and all the characters.

i can't wait to see who plays this new ninja turtles version coming out

[specs]

Two words ("back room") + one name (Sakurai).