Ken: General Discussion (Combos, Techniques, Strats, etc)

[JoeMasters]

ALL INFORMATION/QUESTIONS ABOUT KEN'S MOVES/COMBOS/TECHNIQUES GO IN THIS THREAD

Moves:

Special Normals

Step Kick ( )

This is Ken's best normal, and arguably the best normal in the game. This normal is used to lock people down. Its quick, has good priority, and covers a good amount of ground. This also sets many follow ups up.

Thunder Kick ( )

This is like thunder kick only its an overhead, and WAY slower. Its good for the occasional Mix-up, but is NOT to be abused. Do yourself a favor and dont try to meaty it either.

Thunder Fake ( HOLD )

Its a fake Thunder Kick. Ken takes a step, then recovers. Also ok to use OCCASIONALLY. It could set up some things.

Heel Spike ( )

This is Thunder Kick, but way faster. The catch is there isnt a step before the overhead, so you have to be close. Its good to use during block strings, but I dont recomend anything else besides that. It has pretty decen recovery aswell.

Target Combo ( cl. , )

This chains 2 normals. People usually use it as a punisher, but sometimes it will whiff. Also cl. is better to use due to the damage scaling in the game.

Special Moves

Hadoken ( )
-Hadoken is a fireball that Ken uses for spaceing and combos. The power of the punch changes the speed of the fireball. being the slowest, and being the fastest.

EX Hadoken ( )
- EX Hado turns his fireball into 2 hits. Its used in combos and zoneing. Its also used to neutralize other character's EX fireballs, or going through a normal one. If it goes through a normal one,then your fireball absorbs it, leaving one more hit in your fireball. EX fireball also increases in speed slightly.

Every fireball ( Even EX ones ) have the same start up frames. * See more in Ken frame Data thread.

Shoryuken ( )
- Shoryuken is a rising uppercut used to knock people out of the air. It can be used both Defensivly and Offensivly. Every punch has a different version of the Shoryuken. They all have different uses:

: 1 hit uppercut. Usually used for quick wake up or quick anti air attack
: 2 hit uppercut. *This is Ken's most power normal uppercut* This is his best normal anti-air option as well if you get both hits on the opponent.
: 3 hit uppercut. This Shoryu has the most range on ground or in air. This is most commonly used for his B&B combo, punishers, or to cancel into Ultra. It can be used as an anti-air, but Ken's best option is still the version.

EX Shoryuken ( )
- 4 hit uppercut. This uppercut is VERY powerful, and is commonly used in punisher combos. Its also Ken's BEST anti-air option by far if you get all 4 hits.

Tatsumaki Senpukyaku ( )
Tatsu is a spin kick that sends Ken foward. This is a big part of Ken's mix-up game. The recovery for the tatsu is so good, when you land after hitting the opponent, your almost always safe depending one the situation or character. This sets up many possibilities.

EX Tatsumaki Senpukyaku
EX Tatsu increases recovery/speed/distance of the move.

*Tatsu, if timed correctly, can go through fireballs. This is a good way to get in the opponent's face and start Ken's mix-up shinanigans.
*Tatsu is also an armor breaking move.

EX Air Tatsumaki Senpukyaku ( )
This is the only air move Ken has. Air tatsu is very fast and has amazing recovery. Its is commonly used for rush down purposed and cross-ups. It can take you right to myour opponent's face from anywhere in the screen.

Super Combo:

Shoryu Reppa: ( )
This Super Combo makes Ken do 2 Shoryukens that combo. Its a well Damaging super aswell. The most players usually canel it out of a shoryu.

Ultra Combo:

Shinryuken: ( )
This Ultra combo has 2 versions.

"Full Version" : Ken hits with a light shoryu, does a kick combo, then the Shinryuken. This is the most damaging version of his Ultra.

Partical Ultra : Just Shinryuken. This usually happens when its used as an anti-air, or cancelled from a Shoryu. It is the less damaging version of his ultra. It is VERY common, so dont worry if it happens.

Focus Attack: Ken has a pretty decent Focus Attack. It has decent distance, and decent speed. This is a great thing to have in your Ken's game. Its great for Tatsu set ups, as well as a FULL ULTRA set up for max damage.

Techniques:

Kara Throw: This is Ken's most powerful technique, and a big part of his game. A Kara cancel is when you cancel a normal with a throw/special move from a normal. In this case, Ken's Step Kick will be cancelled with his throw.

Why: To increase his range of his throw. This makes his mix-up game dangerous.

This technique must be done in the beginning frames of the Step Kick. So it must be done very quick.

Kara Focus : This is Karaing Ken's Step Kick with his focus attack.

Why: Focus Attacks are also used to absorb fireballs from distances. When Ken cant keep up with a fireball war, he needs to get in. This makes Ken close ground faster, and get in as fast as possible. By doing the Kara Focus into a foward dash, you would be covering a significant amount of ground.

Kara EX Air Tatsu: This is Karaing a jumping with an EX Air Tatsu. It makes the Tatsu move a much longer range. Even when that tatsu is finished, Ken still floats in the direction the tatsu went in. Its used to get close quick, or run away.



Combos:

B&B/Hit confirm combo: Crouching , Crouching , Shoryuken

Cross-up hit confirm Combos:
cross-up , Crouching , Crouching , Shoryuken

cross-up , Crouching , Crouching , Crouching , Hadoken

Punisher Combos:
Close , EX Shoryuken/Shoryuken

Close , EX Tatsu/Tatsu

Hit confirm Tatsu Set ups:
Crouching , Crouching , Standing , Crouching , EX Tatsu

Crouching , Crouching , Crouching , Tatsu/ EX Tatsu

*All on standing opponents

Crouching , Standing , Crouching , Tatsu***

*** this combo should be incorperated in all Ken games. Not only does is do better damage then other hit conforms, but it also raises the character from the crouching position so you can tatsu them up. But it only works on certain characters.

Works
Fei Long
Gouken
Sagat
Rufus
Abel
Gief
Bison
Sakura
Rose
Gen

Doesn't Work
Blanka
Cammy
Chun Li
Guile
El Fuerte
E.Honda
Dhalsim
Balrog
C.Viper
Vega
Shotos


ABOUT COMBOING HP SHORYU INTO FULL ULTRA

Connecting the full ultra is ALL about the fierce shoryu. The first hit of the shoryu has to juggle. When does this happen?

-During a certain stage of a crumble
-Counter Hit
-Anti-air fierce shoryu.

It has nothing to do with how high the character pops up.

So no, you cant get the full ultra during a combo.


Will be updated soon

[raginfox]

You mentioned that Tatsu's are a big part of his mixup... How do they compare to Tatsu's in 3rd strike. From my experience, Tatsu's were a big no-no in that game. Also, do you happen to have a link detailing Ken's Tatsu Mixup? If you have one handy that is.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. I tried searching this one out but have been unsuccessful.

[JoeMasters]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_H07dcqZ3E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_DkQ...eature=related

Some good examples from Ed.

EX tatsu is better in SFIV because you can hit confirm it, its safer on block then 3rd Strike, are more possibilities. Plus there were better things Ken had in Third Strike anyway. Way better things.

[raginfox]

It looks like I have a long way to go. Thank you, those videos were VERY helpful. I haven't seen these kinds of setups on XBL at all.

[shoultzula]

I was not aware ken could kara focus. Are there any video's of that technique being done properly? His kara has a very big range and it would be dope to see how players are manipulating it.

[grahf swe]

I'll try one final time.

So it seems to me that cr.hp is what stands out for ken.

I used to do cr.lk, st.lp, st.lp, cr.mk, tatsu(hk, ex) until I the other day got my hands on the game again and tried some more stuff.

The BEST combos against st.opp. are hands down:

cr.lk, st.lp, cr.hp, tatsu(hk/ex) or cr.lk, st.lp, cr.mk, srk(ex pref.)

These 2 babies, especially the cr.hp, tatsu does tons of dmg + stun. In fact, I was so surprised I tried something simple with ken, and guess what!? It worked!

100% stun on Akuma! And IIRC it did 870 stun dmg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&f...&v=2vbj_hRMX9E

[grahf swe]

Oh, also, some CH-stuff.

1) HP Shoryuken (1st or 2nd hit) -> / FADC -> Dash Shinryuken (clean hit)
2) close st. MK -> / (link) Shinryuken (clean hit)
3) cr. MP -> / (link) cr. MK xx EX Hadouken/hp srk/hk tatsu etc etc.

2) Can work on any character other than Ryu, Ken, Blanka, Boxer and Akuma. Really hard to do Chun Li, Guile, Balrog, Sagat, and Abel.

Thanks to Chunli1+ATG for sharing the Arcadia information.

Also...

4) twd+mk -> cr.mk xx srk/hado

And now for my question...





Ok, I've been told this:

lp/lk on CH = +1
mp/mk/hp/hk on CH = +3

5) twd + hk -> hp srk!

Now for my question! This thing combos on ch! On hit it's supposed to be -1.

After a couple of tests it is proven that it idd is -1 on hit. And yet, hp srk and cr.lk/cr.lp combos from it on ch!?

Edit: Nvm lol. hp/hk is +4 on CH.

Edit: Hmm.. And yet cr.hp cr.hp doesn't link on CH with sagat? I need to check this up more thoroughly.

The big question I have atm is: does sf4 have a general rule for CH or not!?

Any help is much appreciated!

[AtTheGates]

i did some testing today, and it seems like:

counterhit light hits: +2
counterhit medium & hard hits: +4

prove me wrong ^^

tested with abel, sagat and chun.

[Tigerboi]

Jabs go into c.MK....that is beautiful.

Thanks for the heads up on why to punish with cl. HK instead of his chain Joe.

[Gefen]

hey,
how do you connect the ultra after FA cancel, to hit like a ground hit? (with the full animation)
i got the impression that it does more damage, and saw once jap ken do it (consistently) in matches, so i know its possible (maybe character specific?).
anyway i can only connect the 2nd version (when the first punch whiff i guess).
any help here?

[Bengoshi-San]

Nice! Very informative.

[CCiNO]

I was not aware ken could kara focus. Are there any video's of that technique being done properly? His kara has a very big range and it would be dope to see how players are manipulating it.

+1

I wanna see what this looks like too

[JoeMasters]

hey,
how do you connect the ultra after FA cancel, to hit like a ground hit? (with the full animation)
i got the impression that it does more damage, and saw once jap ken do it (consistently) in matches, so i know its possible (maybe character specific?).
anyway i can only connect the 2nd version (when the first punch whiff i guess).
any help here?

Its all situational and luck really. You cant count on it, but if it happens.. Its pretty.


@CCiNO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JBpp...e=channel_page

when you hear one tap, thats regular focus. when you hear 2 taps, thats kara focus.

[CCiNO]

Thank You JM...I'm gonna watch it again when I get out of the office so I can hear the sound of the clip.

To do it, you would press:

->MK, MP+MK, ->, ->


is that right?

[MRGAY]

hey,
how do you connect the ultra after FA cancel, to hit like a ground hit? (with the full animation)
i got the impression that it does more damage, and saw once jap ken do it (consistently) in matches, so i know its possible (maybe character specific?).
anyway i can only connect the 2nd version (when the first punch whiff i guess).
any help here?

For sure I know the full ultra only connects if whatever you just did was a counter hit. So, if you got two stocks to burn and you're feeling lucky, opponent might try to poke and you FADC after the 2nd hit and Ultra. Looks beautiful, and a lot of angry yelling on the mic on Live.

[JoeMasters]

Thank You JM...I'm gonna watch it again when I get out of the office so I can hear the sound of the clip.

To do it, you would press:

->MK, MP+MK, ->, ->


is that right?

Do , hold your finger on the then quickly press then

[Jinty]

Anyone tried using kara hadoukens with F+MK? They are quite useful if you are closing in on opponents and its better than walking forward then doing hadouken because theres no chance of a DP coming out on accident.

[(ÊlitÊ)]

Man good shit I tried and it works just as easy as a kara throw or a kara fadc.
I also think that it's good to think about ways to use this in combination with his kara srk's. For instance you could bring your fire ball pressuring game a bit further cause you got more range in the air so the safe distance for your opponent to jump over fireballs becomes smaller. Its all about range and spacing with these kara's.

I think our ken is growing to be a true kara master.

[Dr.Chaos]

- Fake kick Kara Throw.
- Also that air ex tatsu -> ultra is really easy to do you can also buffer the ultra when the tatsu is hitting.

[yunfak]

I basically got tick>kara throw down pretty accurately,

to mix up my game I would really like to learn the two combo below

1) Opponent crouching: 2lk 2lp 2lp > hp.shoryuken
2) Opponent standing: 2lk2lp2mk > ex. tastu


I started as a blanka player and these moves are giving me great trouble.

for 1) is there any shortcut to get the hp.shoryuken out?
the time seems quite short from 2lp xx into hp.shoryuken

2) my main problem is to connect the 2mk :(


I have problem getting that hp.shoryuken out
it seems i am doing my hp.shoryuken too late.

[HJNest]

I'm struggling to cancel the S HK into MP shoryuken. Anyone know the ideal way to input the combo?

[berserkotaku45]

I basically got tick>kara throw down pretty accurately,

to mix up my game I would really like to learn the two combo below

1) Opponent crouching: 2lk 2lp 2lp > hp.shoryuken
2) Opponent standing: 2lk2lp2mk > ex. tastu


I started as a blanka player and these moves are giving me great trouble.

for 1) is there any shortcut to get the hp.shoryuken out?
the time seems quite short from 2lp xx into hp.shoryuken

2) my main problem is to connect the 2mk :(


I have problem getting that hp.shoryuken out
it seems i am doing my hp.shoryuken too late.

the timing for connecting that c.mk is a lil weird and takes some getting used to. the best way i can explain it is its like 1,2...3. 1,2,3 being c.lk c.lp than c.mk.

you can tap down forward twice to get the shoryu out insted of forward, down, down forward.

[JoeMasters]

@yunfak : Instead of just using cr. cr. , add a Standing THEN cr. . What this does is give you more leway on connecting the . this is because the standing jab has many positive frames on block and hit.

So it would be...

Crouching , Crouching , Standing , Crouching , Tatsu/EX Tatsu

As for your Shoryu problem. The purpose of that combo is to hit conform the shoryu. So while your pumpin out the crouching normals, during the last normal, you should be buffering the shoryu motion. Also, your not CANCELING the jab into the shoryu, your LINKING them. So wait for the jab to be done, then shoryu. the time is short but you'll get used to it like trust me.

@HJNest: are you doing CLOSE ? If so its still a lil different then the timing for cl. It has to be done quicker.

[ZeroMH]

Ok, I've got a tatsu question. I was surprised to read that recovery after tatsu is good, because I always feel like I'm wide open after a tatsu (even one that connected). So my questions are:

1. What exactly do you have time for after a successful tatsu? Blocking? A jab? An srk?

2. What do you have time for after a blocked tatsu?

3. Is the timing tricky? Because I start hitting buttons after Ken seems to be done the tatsu, but he just stands there and does nothing for a little bit anyway.

[GildedAdonis]

Gunslinger's Ken thread breaks down all the Tatsu's and their pros/cons in detail. Scroll down the Ken threads to find it (might be on page 2)