SA II - The Murderous Shoryu

[Donkus]

Everyone knows SA I is the best super art for Gouki. That isn't being questioned. SA II has some tricks that make it interesting, though.

MGS has a few advantages over MGH. The first two are damage and stun. The most important is it can be canceled from a slightly modified B&B combo, which the other two main arts can't (Gourasen worked in 2nd Impact). This allows for a large number of situations where you can add a super on a combo for a worthwhile amount of damage.

All damage and stun should be considered to be against normal defense and stun characters.

c = close
d = down

Alone, the super does 33.1% damage. Against a crouching target it does 38.7%. Starts up in 3 frames.

Avoid cancelling this super from a dragon punch. It will do less than the super itself, except the LP DP, which isn't confirmable.

HP DP (1 hit), MGS = 28.7%
HP DP (2 hits), MGS = 28.1%
MP DP, MGS = 32.5%
LP DP, MGS = 33.75%

Don't cancel from a fireball. You can cancel from dMK, but not at maximum range (you'll miss). dLK, dLP, dLK doesn't work, but will if you remove the last dLK.

dLK, dLP, MGS = 35.6%

Gouki's B&B is cHP, LK Tatsumaki, HP DP. If you remove the DP and add another cFP, you can cancel into the MGS.

cHP, LK Tatsumaki, cHP, MGS = 45.6% and over 60% stun. Ouch.

You can leave the B&B alone and cancel the MGS from a dragon punch, but the results aren't as impressive.

Basically anytime you can punish with cHP, you can add the super. This includes catching someone with a midair Tatsumaki. You can then cHP, MGS, or LK Tatsumaki, cHP, MGS.
The one catch is you need to hit them deep with the close FP. If their body is too high above you, they'll hit the top of your fist. The super will miss them and you will die.

You can add either jumping heavy before the cHP vs ground targets for even more damage. jHP does more damage and stun than jHK, but there are times when you'll want to use jHK, like when you're above a cornered target.

jHP, cHP, LK Tatsumaki, cHP, MGS = 50.6% and over 75% stun. On Remy and Gouki this does about 95% stun (full stun if you taunt).

The stun damage from this super is not bad (25 points, Shinshoryuken is 20), even though Gouki isn't considered a stun character. Remember that cFK does more stun damage than even Urien's EX Headbutt and combos from a jumping heavy. This, the cHPs, and MGS add a lot of stun in your favor.

Occasionally, if you execute the super at a long range and hit the target's limb, they'll be able to block the rest of the super. Only use it up close or after the cHP and you won't have this problem.

The final hits of the super may miss an airborne opponent who is stunned by a previous portion of the B&B combo. I'm sure there's a reason for this but I don't know what it is.

MGS beats Ken's Shippu before and after activation.

This super has the strange and useless property of doing more damage if some of its own hits miss after a taunt.

Taunt, MGS (first uppercut misses) 65 points
Taunt, MGS 64 points

Forgot to mention, you can neutral throw Dudley and hit him with this super while he's on the ground if he doesn't quickstand. I don't think it works on anything but old arcade versions. Thanks OmegaX.

I'll continue to edit this with more stuff.

[OmegaX]

You forgot throw on Dudley then super pending he doesn't roll.

[Sdouble]

yeah shoryu isn't bad, but come on u have so many more ways to land damage with sa1. so many resets, jump in, etc... but shoryu does do bestly damage no doubt. good thread i learned some stuff about it i didn't know.

[Ryu & Ken]

Whats better Akuma's SA2 or Ken's SA1

[Donkus]

Ken's does slightly more damage when used alone. His Shippu is so much better there's no reason to pick SA I. I think half the reason to play around with Gouki's SA II is the stun damage it does, which isn't a force with Ken's SA I.

[DevilJin 01]

Ken's SA1 is garbage. No reliable ways to connect it and does shit damage in combos.

[Mechanica]

Originally Posted by DevilJin 01

Ken's SA1 is garbage. No reliable ways to connect it and does shit damage in combos.

c.lk, c.lk

PWNT LOL

[HarmoNaz]

Very useful on wakeup (though scrubby)
Akuma also recovers very fast if the super whiffs, so the very first time your opponent is ready to punish, you may be able to get another DP or something in.

[LiSyaoran]

I started useing this. Im really going to try it in tournament play. All though Im still going to use Messatsu Gouhadou vs. Remy, Q, Chun, & Alex; every other character Im going to use Messatsu Goushouryu.

Wish me luck.

[LiSyaoran]

Did alittle Damage comparing between SA1 and SA2

Damage (On Ken):

1)Super Only:
SA1=40, SA2=53
2)Sc.Frc xx Super:
SA1=52, SA2=64
3)C.Fwd xx Super:
SA1=49, SA2=61
*This combo doesn't work for SA2 at far range
4)C.Sht-C.Sht xx Super:
SA1=44, SA2=57
5)C.Fwd xx Gouhadou xx Super:
SA1=51, SA2=62
*This combo doesn't work for SA2 at far range
6)C.Fwd xx Sht.Tatsu(Link to)Super:
SA1=51, SA2=57
*This combo doesn't work for SA2 on Remy, Q, Chun, and Alex
*For SA1, if done in corner, you can juggle after super
7)C.Fwd xx Sht.Tatsu(Link to)Jab.Goushoryu xx Super:
SA1=62, SA2=68
*This combo doesn't work for SA2 on Remy, Q, Chun, and Alex
*The Jab.Goushoryu must hit late (On most characters)
*For SA1, if done in corner, you can juggle after super
8)Sc.Frc xx Jab.Goushoryu xx Super:
SA1=59, SA2=66

As you can see, it is really worth doing combo 7 over combo 6. It is easier to do combo 7 for SA1, but if your useing SA2, timeing is much harder. You have to hit the Jab.Goushoryu late if you want all 5 hits of the super.
You can't get all 5 hits of the super on Remy, Q, Chun, and Alex (You may beable to, but its hard).

I guess I was bored yesterday.