1000Health is the "average" stamina? Oddly untrue!


#1

1000health has always been considered the baseline of what is average health in SF4. All the documentation says so, all of the character data puts 1000health characters as “average.” But what is interesting is that if you actually take all of the characters and average out the health stats this no longer becomes true.

Average health in AE: 950
Average health in Super: 978.5
Average health in Vanilla: 990

Slowly the average health is dropping as more and more “low” health characters are added (plus the general health lowering of characters coming into Super.)

Does this actually MEAN anything? Probably not. But it just seemed sort of interesting. I wonder if we will see an even lower average health with the 2012 patch or if it will stay 950.


#2

Well 990 was close enough, but yeah, as you start bringing in Oni and Evil Ryu, it was bound to continue to lower things, after the lowering of many characters from Vanilla to Super. I don’t even like Oni and Evil Ryu, yet another connected shoto type of character, instead, I would have much preferred completely new or different characters like Elena, another grappler like Alex, or something different.

As for what they can do to bring it closer to 1000, imagine this, capcom only goes 100 points above the “average” but yet goes 200 or so points below the average, it was even worse last year when Seth’s health was like 750 or 700. Maybe the same should happen above average as below. Another thing, it took Capcom all the way to AE to have a female with 1000 health, well, if you have a character like Rose, who’s hovering in the 30s, at best, late 20s on the tier list, one way you could help her is to increase her health. Why not another 1000 life female character. Sure there are other better ways of improving the character, but why not look into health as well. Same goes for Hakan, why not join Zangief and THawk at 1100, or have Zangief and THawk go to 1150 and Hakan go to 1100. Hopefully this patch works.

I want the characters to be as even as possible. Some don’t like that, but I never understood the logic behind not wanting a balanced game. People didn’t like defensive game of Super, but that is a viable tactic for charge characters, it isn’t surprising that charged characters got the shaft in AE. It is like people complaining about Steelers vs. Ravens matchs, esepecially in early 2000s, or complaining about the Spurs. Everyone likes the pure attack attack attack, but not necessarily are smarter match. I say, if they want that, then play MvC3 where defense is non existent. I say, bring back charaged characters, BUT, increase the overhead options. Throwing and Focus Attack shouldn’t be the only way to break guard.


#3

Yeah I always thought it was weird that capcom hasn’t ever really created an above average health female character. (I might be mistaken, I’m not sure how R. Mika’s health stacks up). I mean yeah accentuate the idea of the female gender having more agility but less stamina, but it isn’t a hardfast RULE. There ARE plenty of women who are big bulky bruisers. A like 6’5" amazonian queen would be a pretty cool SF character.

Btw Seth’s health was 750 in Vanilla and Super.


#4

That shouldn’t really factor in a fighting game that strives to be balance. For example, you can’t have Rufus as quick as he is, as damaging as his combos are, with dive kick, completely invincible ex messiah kick, 200 damage ex snake strive, AND give him 1150 health like in Vanilla, or Sagat, with all his damage, all of his good attributes, his great keep away, and give him 1100 health. Essentially, they were given the health, because they LOOK big, instead of based on how the character plays.

Plus If we are based on real life, a chick is not faster, quicker, more agile, stronger or anything other than flexible, than a dude. There are no chick out there that can compete in MMA against a male. In real life Deejay would be faster, stronger, and quicker than chun li. In real life there is no way a ripped guy like Akuma can handle less of a beating than a 16 year old girl like Sakura, plus in real life there aren’t any fireballs and all of this stuff, so real life shouldn’t be the reason for the attributes. Attributes should solely be on the type of character capcom wants to make, and then tweak the stats to balance it out. So if a 950 rose can’t compete, then why not 1000, why not 1050, if you don’t want to increase health, then decrease lag time, or increase damage, or add full invicibility to reversals, increase combos, reduce startup time on ultras. So many ways to do it. Health just happens to be one example.

Now don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t want capcom to “Force” an average of 1000 health, just to make us happy, but it leads to even poorer balance. If 950 average leads to better balance, I’m all for it. If 1050 avg leads to better balance, I’m all for it. As long as the end result is better balance.


#5

Don’t bring borderline sexism into a game, neither are they supposed to be realistic, just in proportion.

Refer to Tron bonne for a guide on how to make a creative female, along with other fighting game characters with strange super powers that aren’t realistic.

People who enjoy playing female characters are more limited in SSF4 than other games, health doesn’t variate much.


#6

Yeaaaaaahhhh I don’t know about that. I’m not sure if you’ve ever seen some really amazing female fighters. They do exist, and it generally does have quite a lot to do with agility. When I go to Tae Kwon Do, we often times spar, and I’ll never forget the time I got my ass handed to me by a 54 year old woman with her 4th degree black belt. She didn’t beat me because she was stronger, I’m far stronger. She rushed like crazy, and that was how she won. I couldn’t keep up with her speed or metal ability. She knew far more about fighting than I did. I don’t think Capcom was as far off as you may think.


#7

1000 is normal, not average. Quite a few characters holding that average health number down.


#8

Ok no. There are so many things wrong with that post.


#9

Just going to point this out, how the HELL is that borderline sexism?

Men being stronger than women is sexism?


#10

I don’t see how it was sexism either, I ran Division 1 track and field, I saw the women’s basketball, tennis, soccer, and other teams all the time. i know what athletic women can do. All I said basically was that we can’t look at real life as a pure basis on the stats of female fighters in a video game. Afterall, at the highest levels, let say olympic/ pro sports level, no woman is going to be stronger, faster or quicker than the strongest, fastest and quickest man. And if you look at fighting, whether boxing, wrestling, or MMA stuff, no women is going to compete with a man. At an amateur level, you can find kung fu ladies beating men, but not at the highest level.

So, it shouldn’t be automatic that a woman have low health. Like the guy said, Tronne Bonne doesn’t have low health. But in Street Fighter, up until they switched Makoto to 1000 health, it looks like High Health went to Men and not just any man, but those who Physically look Big like Rufus, Balrog, Zangief, Honda, Sagat and So Forth. That thinking led to overpowered Sagat and Rufus also getting tremendous amount of health to go along with their other advantages.

In the end, I made it quite clear, there were much more effective ways to make someone good, so as long as it result in a balanced game, I’m cool with it. So, if Capcom want to play the female with low health thing, then make sure their other stuff makes up for it and result in a balance fighter. If you got Makoto for example in Super, who had like nothing going for her AND she had just 950 health, you better believe people made some noise about it.

Anways, Wingman, I guess so, after all I think 13 characters have 1000 health, by far the most. The average goes down, because we have just two notches above “NORMAL” and that is 1050 and 1100, but we have 4 notches below, which are 950, 900, 850, and 800. We have just 9 guys above 1000 health, and 17 guys below 1000 health.


#11

Men ALWAYS being stronger. And women never being able to compete with a male MMA fighter is what is borderline sexist. But this is getting off topic.

So… average isn’t normal? Isn’t that kind of splitting hairs?


#12

I guess you’re right. I should have said 1000 health is regular.

:stuck_out_tongue:


#13

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/7/73/20110128203738!Trollface.png

Icwutudidthere


#14

I so deserved that.


#15

Average does not say much. Need the variance (or even the median absolute deviation)! Could you post the data used?


#16

Like what, exactly? Please be more specific.


#17

Well blanket statements are obviously wrong, but your rebuttal probably couldn’t have been any worse. I don’t really want to get into too many details but…
1 personal example was basically the gist of your post. 1, we don’t know how good you are, so basically all credit goes out the window already. 2, 1 person does not prove anything on a scale of the argument you were in. 3, non competitive setting, small, local, casual.

I dont want to be a dick. Women can be tough and good fighters, but on the top competitive level, they just get outclassed by men who naturally produce more testosterone.


#18

Just checked google, found several men vs women martial arts videos. Watched 3 of em, 2 the women lose after putting up an extremely competitive fight (MMA/Muai Thai) and the 3rd one the woman wins (Grappling).

Martial arts aren’t just about body size or strength. Experience, training, and technique can often trump body size, endurance, and strength.


#19

Regardless, I wasn’t aiming to prove women are generally as strong/as great of fighters as men. I was merely suggesting that it is possible, with proper technique (as Eternal had said) for Women to keep up with really terrific fighters. My story only served as an example, not a definitive declaration.


#20

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/05/stamina-stun-dash-and-jump-rankings-street-fighter-4/