2013 Bison changes

m-bison

#1

Overview

Bison remains essentially the same and serves the same roll as he did pre-patch. He is a footsie, frame trap, and tic throw monster. This character has suffered no stealth nerfs and benefits most from system change removing red life off of grabs. Bison was already blessed with good walk speed, and good normals yielding acceptable frame advantage- and with the new frame trap options he gained- he is even more so a threat when he is upclose in the opponent’s face.

Bison gained different block strings with the stand medium punch buff to make him less prone to raw launchers. Before, he would have to do low short, stand short, medium kick. Now you have the option of doing low short, stand short, stand strong xx special.

Bison received a nerf to his teleport. Added recovery frames means you will now have to commit to using it in many more instances. However, it is still unpunishable in certain situations such as auto correcting warps that get you out of the corner safely.

Bison received more pushback on light scissor kick. This is not a big change, as it was already -2 on block.


#2

What I know and have heard so far…

Good
Standing medium punch links into crouching medium punch
EX-Knee Press knocks up on the last hit-- I am assuming it is possible to maybe set up high/low mix ups when you tag switch in toward the corner
Everyone’s chains are so nerfed Bison can easily start a lot of combos with c.LK on them

Bad
Medium kick chain into heavy kick chain is supposedly


#3

Close MP - Startup decreased from 7 to 5 frames.

Far MP - Startup decreased from 8 to 5 frames.

  • Hitbox has been reduced
  • Hurt box reduced

Bison Warp - Overall animation has increased by 8 frames (more unsafe).

Double Knee Press (LK) - Block pushback has increased (more safe).

EX Double Knee Press - When the final hit connects, opponents are now launched straight up slightly instead of being knocked down.

Knee Press Nightmare - The move starts off with full invincibility, and midway through the movement becomes projectile invincible only.

Deadly Throw - Damage decreased from 150 to 140 (now both throws do 140).


#4

Thanks guys. I also made this thread if we come across any stealth nerfs or buffs. [S]That’s… kinda what it was for not for stuff we already know lol…[/S]

I don’t understand what you mean by “good corner” mixup (sic). Also he already had unblockables in the corner if player doesn’t roll.
No good player is going to do an unsafe chain.
If Bison’s mk/hk is nerfed hard/made unsafe- he’s going to be an outclassed Lili imo. Lili can do left right into launcher which is a stupid amazing poke, safe on block, and if you don’t want to continue combo to launcher she can get 200ish-380ish damage depending on how much meter you want to use. Not to mention she has a nice divekick, parry, amazing AA that doesn’t require as much reaction, a reversal that can possibly mix up the opponent, and she’s getting poison’s walkspeed so she can actually do some nasty footsies with her already complete tools.

I need to see what condition Bison is in- as far as air priority, stealth changes, how hard they nerfed his warp, what his buffs do for him. Frame traps and grabs are going to be very good this time around, and Bison is already a menace with that…


#5

I think the standing MP speed up buff is great. It means you can do a close MK after a jump in, hit confirm link into MP and continue the chain to launcher, or cancel into MK scissor kicks. In vanilla you’d have to do shorts before you hit confirm to a combo, or just use standing MK after close MK and continue to launcher.

I kind of wish they’d made some other changes too:

  • Speed up cr.HP to make it a better anti air
  • Increase range on crouching MK
  • Standing LP should be 3 or 4 frame startup as its the same speed as MP and so useless…
  • Would have been nice if MP would combo into heavy scissors too, but maybe i’m being greedy :smiley:

#6

:eek: Bison is looking like he’s going to have to be a striker-grappler type in 2013. Hope you have your frame traps ready.


#7

[media=youtube]TJPhU5rWzQ8[/media]


#8

“M Bison players will be pleased”

I almost fell back asleep watching these changes

Also, people at Capcom are still mentally challenged when it comes to balancing this character. They said you could pressure with light scissor kick.

It was -2 on block. You can pressure idiots who don’t know frame data. smh. Whatever, I didn’t use knee press much in Vanilla for this reason but wow…

The warp nerf can’t be too bad. They have to slow everything down for me to notice a slight difference. But who knows maybe it’s significant. IDK. What I cared about wasn’t displayed in the video… ofc…


#9

:eek: I was waiting for a nerf to s.:hk: to be honest with you, LOL.

I guess technically it got nerfed by proxy since blocked chains are more punishable now. Time to actually hitconfirm those s.:mk:s!

Good luck, SN0; I honestly have no idea how to play this character anymore with the direction they’ve taken him since the Alpha series ended. o_0


#10

When I heard “Bison players will be pleased with the changes” I was like O_o

I don’t really play this much anymore so I’m not too salty but that’s a whole lotta nerfs isn’t it?


#11

scissor kicks haven’t traditionally been safe, it’s only w/ the advent of SFIV that they were 0 on block. I don’t have a huge problem with the range being pushed back, I don’t remember being able to do anything with them after block anyways.

change to super shouldn’t make much of a difference, I never even know they were full screen fully invincible O_o

With the teleport change, the scissors pushback increase, and the ex scissors I really wonder if Capcom’s message is: “tag out more.”


#12

I think the super is actually a buff. I’m not sure how haunts messed that up but the invincibility right now ends before the first hit. In the vid, Bison whiffed the first hit and still had enough projectile invulnerability to keep going.

Considering scissor kick was already -2 on block and this really isn’t much of a change, the only real nerf was the more recovery on teleport.

Bison got mostly buffs but the video made him look like he got only nerfs…

Also Bison’s chains didn’t get nerfed like everyone else so he still got mk-hk


#13

Yeah he only really got buffed. MP being faster is great for higher damage hitconfirm combos, and throws being so powerful now means bison is VERY scary if you have a lot of red health. Frame trap monster indeed.


#14

Weren’t we gonna wait until the patch drops to put stuff in here? In 2 months I don’t want to have to sort through fact vs speculation.


#15

that video didn’t showcase what I cared about meaning his hitboxes, priority and the frame advantage buffs.

I care about his air to air priority which was amazing- hell attack only lost to ibuki or hetachi roundhouse and he needed it because of the lack of reliable AAs. And his stand hk was worse than SSF4 hk. Did they fix that!?

Did they mess around with his delicious frame 3 startup +3 on block stand light kick? That is central to his pressure game, and the fact he can pressure with a standing normal without worrying about raw launcher is a godsend in this game

as for his stand mk-hk chain… somepeople said its nerfed, some people say it was left alone.

arghghghghghg give me 2013!!! Too many unanswered questions!

YO THATS ALL WHAT I DID WITH HIM BEFORE THE PATCH SMH


#16

This isn’t possible in vanilla AFAIK. So if this is now possible, one of two general things could have changed:
a) they changed the frame advantage of far mp on hit (from +5 to +7)
b) they changed the startup of cr.mp (from 7 to 5)

Or maybe some combination of the two, either of which are undocumented changes.

If they changed a), then they either changed the hit stun of far mp or they reduced the recovery of far mp. If they changed the hit stun (unlikely), then that would mean that you would be able to cancel far mp into hk scissors, which would enable a bunch of new combos, and would make HK scissors much more common. If they reduced the recovery, then far mp is probably a pretty decent poke now, and some new combos would be possible, but IMO this would be the least favorable change.

If they changed b), then that means linking cr.mp xx PC after MK scissors will be much easier now, which is a big quality of life buff. It also enables a bunch of new link combos that were not possible before. This is probably a better buff than the hitstun change, but I don’t quite know because I don’t play this game enough (yet).

In either case, I would verify that far mp can link into crouching mp, because none of those changes seem to be listed anywhere.


#17

His stand & crouch medium punch is being buffed to 5f so he can link them. It’s 8f right now I think. So after we lose MK~HK chain, Bison players could just poke and confirm or trap with MP/MK and confirm into HK~Launch or straight launch


#18

after playing some games my verdict is BISON IS F’N GOOD!

we didn’t get his crossup hitbox fixed but they left his amazing air priority, stand light kick, and even his chain alone. I won’t complain. He benefits greatly from the red damage grab and man people shit themselves once he gets in on them (and trust me, with bisons floaty but awkward jump arc that works, and his walkspeed- HE WILL get in on your ass) and start pressing buttons.

On the downside, the warp will be used less- but in some situations that actually are frequent- it still is a very unpunishable option to get out of a jam, especially in certain corner positions.

and I havent even went in the lab to check out what the new things he can do with his normal buffs


#19

s.MP is nice … now that it’s 5f you have a very usable poke, that you can buffer into a special, at a range where previously your only realistic option would be MK-HK.

I’m sure there’s some good to the new cs.MP, too, but I haven’t figured that out yet.

MK-HK chain still seems safe. The pushback is 100% the same … I compared it with PC version. Frames feel the same, too.


#20

guys… am i cracking up or is his stand hk hitbox fixed as an AA?

I did counter hit AA roundhouse combo into stand forward sweep.

possible before?