2013 SSF4 A.E. Zangief Change list

zangief

#1

As the title states, lets discuss Zangief’s most needed buffs for the upcoming game. In my opinion, Zangief needs are as follows:

  1. Make Far St.Mk neutral or even plus on hit. This move being negative on hit is just retarded.
  2. Buff Ultra 2’s Grab box to that of Hakan’s AA grab box.
  3. Buff Ex hand frame advantage on hit, something like +4 and non-knockdown on counter-hit.
  4. Cr.lk take away one frame of recovery, so that it returns to a 2-frame link to link into shorts, or jabs.
  5. Give him back his jump from Vanilla, which was god like.
  6. Change input command of ultra 2 to 2x QCF.
  7. Fix the splash glitch, so that when it hits on crouchers their body doesn’t fly back and force cr.lp to whiff.
  8. Make his lp green hand on hit, -1 instead of negative -1million.

I truly don’t understand how some of Zangief’s normals, special moves are negative on hit ??? I truly hope Zangief get’s some of these buffs.

Side note:
These Zangief forms are fucking dead lol. Wtf is going on??? no one finding anything new or cheap with Gief ??


#2

Some of those buffs sound interesting especially #3 and #8. The kind of things I’d like to see done to Gief are things like instant projectile invicibility on kick lariat and a fix to his ex green hand were if Gief hit the tip of someones limb the 2nd hit of the ex green hand would do something else instead of whiffing and being put into a negative situation for landing 1 of Geifs metered moves, a quick solution for that would be to just make Giefs ex green hand 1 hit and armor break


#3

Yeah, I actually forgot all about that ex hand hitting one-time and being super negative on hit. Even if they don’t buff him, fix the most mentioned important things. RBG Should have some uses… I mean, he round run faster, or something. Also, I think pointless normals Close. St.hp, cr.hp do something with them. In ST, Zangief’s cr.hp was god like for people who like to jump in from far ranges, or in general it was an amazing AA. As far as AA’s go, he only has lariat and close. st lp ( which is very circumstantial) . Cr.mp works rarely.


#4

Finally, this thread :razzy:. We are trying to make a list with buffs for every character bar the top. For zangief things are kinda complicated, since there are 2 ways people would like him. I will post both ways of buffing gief, and maybe you guys can tell me which way you would preffer (of course, besides coming with your own ideas).
So, 1st solution:

  • EX Green Hand: kd on hit.
  • cr LP: +10 dmg (30)

Basically return gief to his Super status, keep the buffs, and make his bnb more damaging.

2nd solution:

  • Green Hand: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (10-12-15-12)
    +2 hitstun for normal versions (-3/-4-5) and +1 hitstun for Ex version (+2)
  • HP: reduce the start up with 1 frame (11)
  • cr. LK: reduce the start up with 1 frame (3)
  • cr LP: +10 dmg (30)
  • EX Green Hand: +10 dmg (150)

Keep gief a footsie oriented character like now, but make him better. I honestly would preffer the second version, since our goal is to tone down the vortex in this game.

Another thought I had is - give gief more health - 1200, like in vanilla.


#5

EX GH should knock down and break armor
cr.LK should be a 2 frame link again
regular GH should be safe (0 or -1) on hit
Gief’s air hitbox should be back to how it was in vanilla
Bigger hitbox on headbutt
If EX GH won’t give a KD, then U2 should be able to catch ALL backdashes after landing it from ANY range. It always frustrates the hell out of me when I get a cr.LK xx EX GH and then read the backdash correctly only for U2 to whiff. That situation is the exact reason why he has it in the first place.

And I agree that something needs to be done about getting punished for landing only 1 hit of EX Hand. It’s pretty stupid.


#6

Revised desired change list:

  1. Ultra 2 grabs all aerial moves, including invincible specials and ultras. Eg. EX Shoryuken
  2. cr.mp is +4 on hit
  3. far st.hp should be 10 frame startup and have increased float state on hit
  4. 1 hit EXGH should be at advantage.
  5. Atomic Suplex should be 1 frame startup
  6. EX Atomic Suplex should always default to EX RBG if grab doesn’t connect
  7. HPGH should have significantly increased startup, but reduced recovery after the banish

*cr.lk back to 3 frame startup would be sweet, but at reduced damage.


#7

:clapdos: This is irritating as fuck.


#8

Make 1 Hit EXGH intentional!!! So that at a certain spacing, you can score a knockdown or +4 on hit and can link a combo. And make this spacing USEABLE.

Example Combo: 1 Hit EXGH linked into cr.lk xx EXGH


#9

Based on your proposals, this is what I think for gief:

  • Green Hand: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (10-12-15-12)
    +3 hitstun for normal version, +2 hitstun for Ex (-2/-3/-4/+3)
  • Ex GH: becomes 1 hit, and armor breaks
  • cr LP: +10 dmg (30)
  • Double G. S.: +10 dmg for normal version (230)
    +20 dmg for Ex version (260)
  • Running B. G.: faster traveling speed
  • cr. MP: +1 hitstun (+4)
  • far HP: reduce the start up with 1 frame (11); increased float state
  • EX Green Hand: +10 dmg (150)

#10

Hey emanuelb, just wondering why you think far HP should be 11 frames start up. When I think it should be 10 frame start up?

As I’m thinking along the lines of whiff cr or st. lp into far HP to cover Sagat’s back dash. 14 frame move + 10 frame startup of far HP. Also tags jumps better after cr.lp or st.lp on hit.

You know that will turn Zangief into a combo machine, re-looping into mixups galore.


#11

Well, since he lost the KD property, I thought maybe give him something threatening. What do you mean exactly by combo machine, what would these changes do ?
Then maybe reducing the hitstun buff to +2 for normal/ +1 for ex ?


#12

Every time you land a hit confirm combo ending in LPGH, you put them into another mix-up at +2, which is even better than the current +1 mix-up off of EXGH combos!

So a Zangief without meter, could land one combo, end it in LPGH. Read a jump from the opponent, tag them in pre-jump frames, for another combo ending in LPGH for yet another mixup.

Example: Jump MK, cr.lp xx cr.lp. st.lk xx LPGH = +2 on hit (opponent jumps back) … tag with far mp. st.lk xx LPGH +2 on hit … another mix-up. Seems way too overpowered. The opponent would have to back dash or reversal or block to get out.

Plus, all LPGH and MPGH can now be option selected, without fear. Zangief witn no EX Bars would be untouchable!!! It would be like having infinite EX Bars for o/s EXGH … and at +2, you get an even better mix-up.

Edit: Plus you will never need to end combos in EXGH as LPGH is far better.

It’s really going to turn him into a combo machine, and break him as a character.


#13

I don’t see a problem with this. Why should we have to burn a bar to give people a somewhat legitimate reason not to jump away? I’ve played matches where my opponent would do something punishable (like purposely throwing fireballs in my face) to get me to burn my meter so that I can’t EX SPD for positioning, buffer cr/st. LK xx EX GH and so that they could just jump away if they were in a mixup situation because Gief doesn’t have a good, meterless response to up-back. And you listed 3 ways in which they can get out of it so I wouldn’t exactly say it’s overpowered.


#14

Oh, but I didn’t mean to make LP GH +2 on hit, that would be way too much. I was thinking of adding +3/+2 hitstun, so LP GH would be from -5, as it is right now, -2/-3 on hit.
And I think this would be fair, I don’t see the point of being punished on hit.


#15

Even with -3 on hit, the opponent’s punish would have to be frame perfect, otherwise they risk eating Ultra 1. Which results in attempting to punish the LPGH an unnecessary risk, as opposed to a guaranteed punish as we have now.

I can’t remember exactly back to the old days of SF2, but I always thought GH was never supposed to hit, but be used for banishing projectiles or approaching. If they could tweak the recovery, so you recover much quicker on whiff or much quicker on a projectile banish. And severely increase the penalty on hit. We would have a workable GH.

Being able to safely combo into regular GH, would see a more combo friendly Zangief, and less of the grappler.


#16

I think it would be the opposite. You’d see more of the grappler. Safe combos into GH will make people respect cr.LK a lot more and open up the floodgates for some nasty tick throw setups. And if it’s a problem, they could easily decrease the damage on regular GH, or make it do less in combos. It’s not like we use it anyway so that wouldn’t break anything else.


#17

The fact of hitting someone with a LPGH and it being negative on hit makes me feel like I should be using it for banishing projectiles, but it’s not good for that either. Zangief can’t really get mixups off of a knock down so I don’t see a problem with making his stand up game better.


#18

Give Zangief RBG from SFXT (Armor on Non-EX + Travel Speed) Kappa


#19

I know what you mean. The odds need to change so that expected outcome of projectile banishing is EVEN. And not vastly negative as we currently have it. It’s probably stacked like that because of the damage of Ultra 1. A Zangief with Ultra 2, would only be able to net 250 from a HP SPD after the fact. And also the SF4 mechanism of FADC forward dash, means that regular GH HAS to be nerfed.

However, what I want to see, is a reworking of the regular GH. Changing where the active frames occur with regards to displacement. So Zangief banishing and active frames occur much much later in the move. This would allow regular GH to be SAFE on hit, if spaced appropriately, at max range. You couldn’t combo into it BUT you could use it as an approach. It would still be negative on hit.

EDIT: Also would wish for EX Atomic Suplex (upclose 360+K) to be throw-invincible, as your only way out of Akuma’s Ultra 1, and you could jump in on anti-air demons. Abel wouldn’t like it though.


#20

I want to be able to do normal xx RBG like in ST. Ultimate salt ahoy.