2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams


You are one of my favorite people for info-dumping about Dormington, but I gotta get on you for that 1st line, like Dizzy did.

Otherwise you nailed it(of course), but as the Dark Lord himself is, we should be boisterous, but also self-aware(the one thing we can be his better in!); Dark Hole has its merits… but if you can’t place it in a way that controls space/constrains the foe’s mobility at that moment, and where they can move safely, it’s wack.


nonsense post, disregard.


did everyone just take some crack or something


I can’t think of a single character that prefers Dark Hole to Cold Star as an assist. Can anyone else?

Even characters who prefer Dorm to Ammy as a partner typically do so for other reasons.


X23’s partners with Dorm much better than Ammy. Since she prefers left/rights to hi/lows the shorter duration actually works a bit better for her. You can extend later into a combo with DH compared to CS and I feel like she has an easier time keeping dorm safe compared to Ammy. DH juggles a bit better for her confirms and resets, as well. Scaling is much better on DH for her, too, IIRC.

When it comes to character specifics outside of assists it’s Dorm in a huge way, the assist isn’t substantially in his favor, but I do think it’s better.


Nemesis, Hulk and Haggar, basically because in most matchups against the mentioned characters, the opponent is better positioned at a distance where dark hole is more effective for covering command grab stuff and approaches


Not just that but dsrk hole does more damage has a better characters overall attached to it and makes more combos extendable for a variety of characters in which ammy cannot. First one to come to mind is Dante


Yeah, Dante in a huge way. He doesn’t need the lockdown outside of DT hi/lo strings, he mainly just needs a short burst so he can abuse his slower tools in neutral and DH definitely gives him that. I don’t feel like CS gives Dante much of anything significant.


cold star gives dante actual opportunities, dark hole i see more of as a combo extender.

you can do optimal stuff with cold star like off of a corner stinger + coldstar, you can do 2 volcanoes into a TK skydance and then beehive into poop yourself because this did no damage before super


Adding on to grapplers liking DH, IIRC it’s +7 or 8 on block with Dormammu on point; I forget if assists keep the same frame data as their non-assist versions(can someone deconfirm/confirm that one?)…

~+7 on block? That is terrifying when used in tick throw/kara throw setups, especially command grab-based ones.


People dont think Darkhole is a more versatile lockdown & neutral assist than Coldstar?
I mean seriously. Its not usable from far & mid range. Its only applicable from up close essentially while darkhole is usable from all 3 ranges.
I dont understand how people can disagree with that…

There is virtually no risk involved in calling darkhole.

You can call darkhole, wait until the end of its active frames to put your own active frames on the screen and then at the end of your AF its ready to be called again or another assist can be called lol Its silly.
It basically disrupts other characters neutrals with the way it lapses with cooldown.

Its so disruptive.


pretty sure cold star starts up slightly faster(? at least the first shot) and has more blockstun, also doesn’t juggle so it’s easier to convert whereas dark hole can maybe drop converts if you open them up during the last parts of the dark hole
dark hole probably has further reach or so

both have the same weakness of slowish startup and being non helpful vs stuff like wolverine rushing you down

idk both of them are subpar assists, cold star is scarier if you block it for like magneto, dark hole scarier if you block it for like haggar ?? probably because it’s harder to jump out of dark hole

dormammus not really gonna be ran for his dark hole assist, and ammy could be ran for cold star as a supplemental assist for mag and viper (fast high low games) and in the anchor spot poses decent threats with ammy thc and lv3 xf. dorm probably put second for dhcing in i guess but still that assist is subpar. and both characters lose to vergil


Cold star in neutral > Dark Hole in neutral. Outside of a few characters, cold star has better applications than Dark Hole. Cold star can be used defensively because it comes out faster than Dark Hole and ammy being in the air catches bad air dashing and allows you to combo. Dark hole comes out too slow to be better than cold star. You almost have to use it pre-emptively in neutral, and we know what can happen if you call an assist out wrong (not saying cold star has the same problem but the start up itself helps you not get blown up on reaction).

Phantasy is 100% right about them both being subpar compared to missiles, beam, jam session, vajra, etc. But if you gotta make me choose, cold star is just the better overall assist. Dark hole has good uses though, its not useless like people here play it out to be.


Can we all just agree that both are good for characters that can abuse their properties? I don’t see any reason why people are spending time discussing it. Some characters use one better than other, some like the safer assist, some like the longer lockdown, some use one or the other because of character synergy rather than which assist is better in neutral.

Character synergy has more to do with which assist they have and it’s a character by character basis. Neither of the assists are so good that they’re the reason you pick the character and have differing roles in neutral.

Next question: Are any/many of you getting a chance to go to CEO next weekend? I would be cool to get games in with some of you.


just wanna point out that your assist character being in the air is almost definitely worse than being grounded
if they get hit by anything they fall, hard knockdown, and are OTGable. takes them longer to get up and be re-called
with grounded assists, they can be hit by non juggle moves and not be stunned as long and get out faster


Actually that is why I picked ammy.

The degree by which cold star can improve a character is far stronger than the degree by which characters (who use dark hole optimally) improve

if that makes any sense

Example, shuma improves more with cold star than an optimal character improves with dark hole

Also, the fall time isn’t really that big of a deal unless you suck at calling assists. Characters that are likely to hit ammy and still otg aren’t going to be affected that much by the fact she has to fall. If she gets helmbreakered, not much changes because of the fact that helmbreaker brings you down so quickly. You are right that it’s worse, but it’s not really that big of a deal imo vs the relevant cast.


That feeling when jwong considered Cold Star the best assist in the game at one point. Probably during vanilla when they were still hosting playable demos.

I don’t think Dark Hole is as much of a big deal as others make it out to be. It’s about as effective as any given lockdown/extension assist and has more to do with the character that’s accompanying it. Also when weighed against the other options they’re fairly limited by their situational nature. Don’t get me wrong though- Purification can work with certain characters and stacked Liberation is amazing but the former is still situational and the latter is one big moneyshot before you get back to the bubble.

I would go but unfortunately lack the current finances to buy a plane ticket. I’d drive but I’m in SoCal and I hear horror stories about Florida.


the biggest issue with ammy being in the air is definitely vs morrigan since she basically dies if you call her at the wrong time


Pre-release cold star still would be the best assist in the game for most characters, strong neutral assist that sets up amazing mix ups for high/low/left/right/throw/unblockable and can likely set that up from your character’s projectile pokes. If it was available characters like Firebrand, Zero, and Viper would be even more OP since they’d just be able to confirm off of full screen pokes into setting up unblockable situations.


I think the more important question is which DHC/THC do you want in that situation. Neither assist is the end-all be-all for every character in the game. If your character can DHC into the stalking flare followups, Dorm is an amazing damage engine. If your character can let Dorm combo off chaotic flame THC, Dorm is pretty stupid. If you have someone that can abuse Ammy Bomb or have some character with specific Veil follow-up combos, etc.

For characters that can’t abuse a longer lockdown, the difference in the assists are pretty negligible and it comes down to other synergy. If you need the lockdown for hi/low game, then CS is better for neutral, though you’re most likely basing the rest of the team on the fact that you have CS to abuse ammy bomb since you don’t have a damage engine behind one of your characters.