2015 UMVC3 SRK Tier/Theory Discussion. 7/10 First Page Tumblr: Power of snapback, Future power teams


cold star gives dante actual opportunities, dark hole i see more of as a combo extender.

you can do optimal stuff with cold star like off of a corner stinger + coldstar, you can do 2 volcanoes into a TK skydance and then beehive into poop yourself because this did no damage before super


Adding on to grapplers liking DH, IIRC it’s +7 or 8 on block with Dormammu on point; I forget if assists keep the same frame data as their non-assist versions(can someone deconfirm/confirm that one?)…

~+7 on block? That is terrifying when used in tick throw/kara throw setups, especially command grab-based ones.


People dont think Darkhole is a more versatile lockdown & neutral assist than Coldstar?
I mean seriously. Its not usable from far & mid range. Its only applicable from up close essentially while darkhole is usable from all 3 ranges.
I dont understand how people can disagree with that…

There is virtually no risk involved in calling darkhole.

You can call darkhole, wait until the end of its active frames to put your own active frames on the screen and then at the end of your AF its ready to be called again or another assist can be called lol Its silly.
It basically disrupts other characters neutrals with the way it lapses with cooldown.

Its so disruptive.


pretty sure cold star starts up slightly faster(? at least the first shot) and has more blockstun, also doesn’t juggle so it’s easier to convert whereas dark hole can maybe drop converts if you open them up during the last parts of the dark hole
dark hole probably has further reach or so

both have the same weakness of slowish startup and being non helpful vs stuff like wolverine rushing you down

idk both of them are subpar assists, cold star is scarier if you block it for like magneto, dark hole scarier if you block it for like haggar ?? probably because it’s harder to jump out of dark hole

dormammus not really gonna be ran for his dark hole assist, and ammy could be ran for cold star as a supplemental assist for mag and viper (fast high low games) and in the anchor spot poses decent threats with ammy thc and lv3 xf. dorm probably put second for dhcing in i guess but still that assist is subpar. and both characters lose to vergil


Cold star in neutral > Dark Hole in neutral. Outside of a few characters, cold star has better applications than Dark Hole. Cold star can be used defensively because it comes out faster than Dark Hole and ammy being in the air catches bad air dashing and allows you to combo. Dark hole comes out too slow to be better than cold star. You almost have to use it pre-emptively in neutral, and we know what can happen if you call an assist out wrong (not saying cold star has the same problem but the start up itself helps you not get blown up on reaction).

Phantasy is 100% right about them both being subpar compared to missiles, beam, jam session, vajra, etc. But if you gotta make me choose, cold star is just the better overall assist. Dark hole has good uses though, its not useless like people here play it out to be.


Can we all just agree that both are good for characters that can abuse their properties? I don’t see any reason why people are spending time discussing it. Some characters use one better than other, some like the safer assist, some like the longer lockdown, some use one or the other because of character synergy rather than which assist is better in neutral.

Character synergy has more to do with which assist they have and it’s a character by character basis. Neither of the assists are so good that they’re the reason you pick the character and have differing roles in neutral.

Next question: Are any/many of you getting a chance to go to CEO next weekend? I would be cool to get games in with some of you.


just wanna point out that your assist character being in the air is almost definitely worse than being grounded
if they get hit by anything they fall, hard knockdown, and are OTGable. takes them longer to get up and be re-called
with grounded assists, they can be hit by non juggle moves and not be stunned as long and get out faster


Actually that is why I picked ammy.

The degree by which cold star can improve a character is far stronger than the degree by which characters (who use dark hole optimally) improve

if that makes any sense

Example, shuma improves more with cold star than an optimal character improves with dark hole

Also, the fall time isn’t really that big of a deal unless you suck at calling assists. Characters that are likely to hit ammy and still otg aren’t going to be affected that much by the fact she has to fall. If she gets helmbreakered, not much changes because of the fact that helmbreaker brings you down so quickly. You are right that it’s worse, but it’s not really that big of a deal imo vs the relevant cast.


That feeling when jwong considered Cold Star the best assist in the game at one point. Probably during vanilla when they were still hosting playable demos.

I don’t think Dark Hole is as much of a big deal as others make it out to be. It’s about as effective as any given lockdown/extension assist and has more to do with the character that’s accompanying it. Also when weighed against the other options they’re fairly limited by their situational nature. Don’t get me wrong though- Purification can work with certain characters and stacked Liberation is amazing but the former is still situational and the latter is one big moneyshot before you get back to the bubble.

I would go but unfortunately lack the current finances to buy a plane ticket. I’d drive but I’m in SoCal and I hear horror stories about Florida.


the biggest issue with ammy being in the air is definitely vs morrigan since she basically dies if you call her at the wrong time


Pre-release cold star still would be the best assist in the game for most characters, strong neutral assist that sets up amazing mix ups for high/low/left/right/throw/unblockable and can likely set that up from your character’s projectile pokes. If it was available characters like Firebrand, Zero, and Viper would be even more OP since they’d just be able to confirm off of full screen pokes into setting up unblockable situations.


I think the more important question is which DHC/THC do you want in that situation. Neither assist is the end-all be-all for every character in the game. If your character can DHC into the stalking flare followups, Dorm is an amazing damage engine. If your character can let Dorm combo off chaotic flame THC, Dorm is pretty stupid. If you have someone that can abuse Ammy Bomb or have some character with specific Veil follow-up combos, etc.

For characters that can’t abuse a longer lockdown, the difference in the assists are pretty negligible and it comes down to other synergy. If you need the lockdown for hi/low game, then CS is better for neutral, though you’re most likely basing the rest of the team on the fact that you have CS to abuse ammy bomb since you don’t have a damage engine behind one of your characters.


I agree with rokmodes logic. However this game is starting to trend towards characters who can fight in all 3 positions and can still provide something in any role, Dorm unfortunately doesnt fit that bill. He is a situational character that can make things lopsided in a heartbeat if the situation is good or can crack if its bad. Its just he is easy to get started on some teams. Ammy I believe is under explored and under developed and potentially brings something in all 3 positions that dorm can’t. I would rather have ammy start a match than dorm. I also like ammy without factor than dorm. Dorm is stuck in the 2nd position on optimal teams because he gets setup best and isnt anchor material. It goes beyond simply assist.

Niggas better start learning there team front to back. I’m telling ya, people in the future are gonna have teams that can change the ordee to counter certain teams and shells. Those teams are going to be consistent threats in the long run because you wont be able to just completely counter them period.

I think ammy is better than dorm overall imo.


What are the differences between pre-release coldstar and ultimate coldstar? i know vanilla coldstar had unscaled hitstun so coldstar wouldnt drop far in the combo




Idk I agree overall ammy is better, but that depends on how much you factor support into a tier list.
Ammy point is actually surprisingly good with good assists. It’s not reliable for fighting a lot of the cast, but ammy wins a surprising amount of matchups. (wolverine)

I don’t think ammy second is very good personally, and I think ammy is pretty much made for anchor, but point ammy is very viable when it comes to certain matchups. A lot of characters have trouble dealing with her. Just some matchups I personally like with point ammy: haggar, doom, dante, wolverine, taskmaster, nova, jill, and pretty much any other character who gets fucked by her height or has a “linear” approach. The biggest problem with ammy second is that she loses to a lot of zoning characters once they get started, so she has to come into a lot of bullshit + you don’t get her for xf3. She is trouble for these characters if and once she gets in, but otherwise it can be quite tough. Such matchups include strange, hawkeye, dorm, etc. She is only slightly better at fighting these matchups than doom is except she doesn’t provide plasma beam to compensate. Most ammy duos are stronger with ammy assist than she is with their assists. There are few examples where it is the other way around (ammy arthur>arthur ammy, ammy/dante>dante/ammy, some others).

TL;DR Probably put her last unless you’re fighting wolverine


pre-release cold star is the grounded one that shoots forwards

and it lasted a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time


Pre-release Cold Star assist was the L version. There was video of it in the dog forums a long time ago.

I cannot begin to fathom how disgusting Cold Star L would be as an assist, especially if Ammy comes out behind the point.


Remember Dante’s OOOOOOLD OLD OLD OLD Million Dollars hyper? The one that lasted for literally five seconds?

I’m still in mourning for Deadpool’s I LOVE ME SOME GUN


The theory thread is so next level we not only talk about stuff people don’t do, we talk about stuff people can’t do.