2d player who wants to play TTT and T4 help!

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#21

astroglide… lol

I have gone from outright saying she rapes everyone (which I was was just saying by the way. Not being realistic) to plainly agreeing with you. Yes, jin beats her in most instances. But to say he or anyone beat her for FREE… c’mon man. That is nonsense. Hell, prove your point but dont speak bull shit. (this is directed at the other guy, not Ice)

Ice I believe, I have seen him give detailed info and hes been around. And you will have to excuse me, I haven’t played this game on a tourny level for a while. I have to use theory to support my claims because the cab got broken sticks over here so I stopped playing it. Also ggxx is a higher priority to me. But even with that, I am pretty assertive about the shit I know so I will admit when I am wrong. But this other guy… telling me Hei beats Julia. Pfft… thats a slap in the face.

#22

I was the first guy to say i think hei is better than julia, didn’t say he beats her or she owns her, because i dunno tk4 well, but anyway gamble explained it for you.

to say anyone owns anyone is a bold statement, so tiers are usually determined by tournament winnings and amount of usage.

the last time i recall julia won a major was the first national, and julia beat jin as matter of fact. there’s basically one good player that still plays julia in the us and that’s mick from mid west.

if julia is “top tier”, thenn jin steve lee nina are" god tier". she’s not in the same class." what makes her any better than bryan , ling, law, paul , kaz, hei? any person could argue for those guys to be top tier just as you are doing so with julia. the point is all of those characters mentioned have something going for them but they are all in the same class.

and about hei, he’s been top tier in japan. arcadia ranking actually put him as number 2. and at ec4 a japanese player came over and represented hei and got 4th or 5th i can’t remember. kaz is over in korea and japan also. and paul was top 3 in us along with jin and steve for the first two years. julia was never top tier. even in ttt people would say changs are top tier, but when you break it down, it was still mishimas and ogres, then changs, kickboxers, etc were behind.

#23

I know some of the guys in SDTekken…I’ll just ask them for their opinion.

#24

Ling also owns Julia.
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=58473

Frame data
http://tekkenzaibatsu.com/tekken4/framedata.php?id=julia
http://tekkenzaibatsu.com/tekken4/framedata.php?id=jin

Julia Strat Thread
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=54640&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Old Julia Strat Thread
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=20161

#25

can someone refresh my memory on aenica and who this person lost to at evo? stopped keeping up with tekken long time ago.

edit: nm went to tz and found out. also saw waygamble and icege name on the front page for tournament results.

#26

Firstly evil, my statement about her bain the best or top tier has been retracted. So to comment on it at this point is redundant. And Gamble, for some one who would go as far as to post the frame url, you sure as hell cant read them properly. I commented earlier hoping that you would at least catch yourself. But the bottom line is, I checked the frame data, your info was wrong. Point - blank.

And ling owns Julia?, no shit sherlock, she has normals under 10 frames. So does nina. What is your point? The whole issue of bringing up frame data was to show you that this “free” shit you were babbling on about was bull shit. Yes she has some disgusting recovery on some moves, but those moves do NOT include ss+3,4. So for you to come on here, post the wrong damn frame data. Interpret the frame data you DID get right improperly. And then have the nerve to give me a link that only supports what I said is pointless in your position. Be real man, even if you Hei info is feisable, at this point I am about ready to disregard anything you say because you keep speaking figuratively to support you position instead of checking and using actual facts. Sigh…

#27

Thx for the help guys. I’m thinking of going jin ling and hwarong. What do you mean by learning easy combos? Should I always go for the mishima 5 hit combo? And t4 and ttt is so freakin deep. It has a lot of moves. Should I learn all the moves for the characters? Should I go to a character specific strategy thread in zaibatsu or gamefaqs? Does hwarong have an effective high low mid mixup game? Cause I can’t seem to find any good ones.

#28

With Jin:

Learn 2,1 pressure. 2,1…
f, 2,1
SS, 2,4
whatever’s safe, which is pretty much everything

JFLS

wall game

Jin has one of, if not the best wall game in t4. It’s complete ass beatings.

Hwoarang is a lot more difficult to learn than say, Jin. Ling is also complicated, but mega good.

I dunno enough about Hei to say whether or not he beats Julia. Ling goes under ff+1 and Bow & Arrows. Tiny bitch :frowning:

#29

Can’t argue with that kind of logic.

I mean learn easy combos that do good damage.
Example, Jin;
any launcher, 1,2,3, d+4. Very simple, does good damage.

Hwoarang;
b+3, 3~4, 1,2,3,4.
f,n,d,d/f+4, 3+4, 3~4

  1. Learn your character’s move list, along with the hit ranges
  2. Learn frame data
  3. Learn easy, damaging combos
  4. Learn some strats
  5. Practice
  6. Watch some good match vids, try to understand why they’re doing what they’re doing and compare it to how you play.
  7. After you’ve done all that above do it again but apply it to a different character.
#30

No, you can’t, not when you dont even have the decency to actually confirm frame data before you post trying to debate a point. Which Is why I said FIGURATIVELY, because you were just saying things for the sake of defending your point, not actually supporting it with things factual. Even after I spicifically told you, check your frame data. You came back with incorrect info, and even the incorrect data you presented was read wrong because you weren’t smart enough to realise that wheather she was safe or not was accourding to her recovery, not actual move frames. Then you started throwing around opinions that arent supported by any evidence you can present, AFTER you had already messed up your credibility by posting wrong info and trying to cover yuorself by putting up links (Yeah, right). Normally, I am respective of opinions, but you kicked yourself in the ass TWICE. So it is as I said, I have no reason to actually consider what you are saying fiesable unless you explain it, show me evidence, or debate it in such a manner that dignifies yourself instead of making it look like you just want to “sound” like you know what the hell you are talking about. While I dont intend to out-right disregard everything you say (because you do have reasonable knowledge of the game), you will have to do better than…

(Which is not concisive considering the free 2,4’s and 1,1,2’s is wrong and didnt even bother to check it. And you arent even sure if the other info is on par.)

OR

When you just got finished trying to act like you were an authority on it. Pfft… what a joke.

Edit: And when you think you EVER have a Hei, or a Jin that can own Julia for free, then please. By all means let me know. Your candy ass it less than 40 minutes from me. We can get down.

(is candy ass flaming? =/ ehh… sorry about that. Its the competitive spirit I tell you! :p)

#31

I gonna set the record straight right now. Prowess you dont know much about T4. You definately don’t know much about Julia or Jin. The argument that you are giving is fictional and misleading to newbies. You say that Jins 2,4 is 12 frames. WRONG it is 10 frames. Why dont you stop posting things that you have not researched. I am not being mean or trying to flame you. Everything that WayGamble has posted concerning Julia vs. Jin is true except that Jin owns her for free. No character in Tekken owns Julia for free. If they slip up she can nearly eliminate there total life bar off just 2 counterhit juggles.

Prowess you probably are saying WTF are you talking about you don’t even know me. True I dont know you and the reason I say that you don’t know much about T4 is because you don’t understand or know the frame data. You would know that over half of Julia’s moves can be punished by 2,4 when blocked by Jin. Julia is my #1 charater. However she is not my best character. Nina is my strongest character(IMO the best character in the game). Ask any of the SC players and they will tell you that I know my stuff with Julia I’ve been playing her for 5 years. In T4 Julia is a low tier character. Her recovery and offense is severly lacking compared to TTT due to the change in gameplay.

Here is a list of Julias moves that Jin is guaranteed a 2,4 when he simply just blocks that move:

Julia does:-------------------Jin does:

standing 3(left kick)-------bf2,1,2*(just frame Laser scraper)
--------------------------------1+2 (knocks her across the screen)
--------------------------------f,n,d,df+2(wind hook fist)
--------------------------------d+3+4(Instant launcher)
--------------------------------2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)

f+1 (anti high attack)-----2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
--------------------------------1+2 (knocks her across the screen)
---------------------------------f,n,d,df+2(wind hook fist)
---------------------------------d+3+4(Instant launcher)

1,1,1(G-clef Cannon)------2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
--------------------------------1+2 (knocks her across the screen)
--------------------------------f,n,d,df+2(wind hook fist)
--------------------------------d+3+4(Instant launcher)

df+2,1(launcher)----------2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
-------------------------------f,n~d~df+2(electricflashy move)

1~1,4,3(simple mix-up)–2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
--------------------------------f,n~d~df+2(electricflashy move)

1~2~1(best ch.move)—2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
-------------------------------1+2 (knocks her across the screen)
--------------------------------f,n,d,df+2(wind hook fist)
--------------------------------d+3+4(Instant launcher)

f+1~2(horrible move)—2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
------------------------------f,n~d~df+2(electricflashy move)

b+1+2(horrible move)–2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
------------------------------f,n~d~df+2(electricflashy move)

2+3,1(never do this)—2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
-----------------------------f,n~d~df+2(electricflashy move)

FC,df+2(stun on ch.)—bf2,1,2*(just frame Laser scraper)
-----------------------------1+2 (knocks her across the screen)
------------------------------f,n,d,df+2(wind hook fist)
------------------------------d+3+4(Instant launcher)
------------------------------2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)

f,f+2(Dashing fist)------bf2,1,2*(just frame Laser scraper)
-----------------------------1+2 (knocks her across the screen)
------------------------------f,n,d,df+2(wind hook fist)
------------------------------d+3+4(Instant launcher)
------------------------------2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)

WS+2(Tequila starter)–2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)
------------------------------f,n~d~df+2(electricflashy move)

WS+2,2(no delay or hold)–bf2,1,2*(just frame Laser scraper)
-----------------------------------1+2 (knocks her across the screen)
-----------------------------------f,n,d,df+2(wind hook fist)
-----------------------------------d+3+4(Instant launcher)
-----------------------------------2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)

All WS+2 tequila series are punishable by Jins 2,4 up to laser scraper :frowning:

SS 3~4(great move but)---- Yes punishable by 2,4 on block.

4,4,1(High low mid)-----------bf2,1,2*(just frame Laser scraper)
------------------------------------1+2 (knocks her across the screen)
------------------------------------f,n,d,df+2(wind hook fist)
------------------------------------d+3+4(Instant launcher)
------------------------------------2,4(also a free d+4 after the 2,4)

Julia does not have a whole lot more moves that are not listed.
In fact let me give you so more facts Julia only has 77 moves. Many of those moves are variations of strings. Of those 77 moves 39 can be punished by Jins 2,4 up to a powerful Just frame Laser scraper. Of those 77 moves All but one cannot be parried that is her Unblockable. In other words Jin can Parrie 76 of Julia’s moves out of her total 77. The only move that he cannot deal punishment to Julia on after he parries it is her 8 frame jab. Now when I say parrie I mean command parrie(b+2+4) and low parrie.

As I said earlier I am not trying to be mean or make look or sound stupid. I am just giving you facts. By the way Wayne(Waygamble) is like one of the best players in South Carolina if not the best. He does not own my Julia with Jin but he knows how to punish her. Julia must beat Jin by turtling and catching every mistake. She will lose if you try to play a bulldog style. T4 is not TTT. As I said earlier although Julia is not my best Character she is my #1 Character. When played right she can Hang with anyone. The first T4 nationals was won by a cautious Julia player against another Jin player.

But Hey Prowess Wayne says that if you dont think he knows his facts then hell play you for $100.00. But if you are to afraid to take that much of a risk then wassup we can get some casual matches on anyday.

My Nina will Own all:evil:
Better believe it:)

Hey Josh Ling’s AOP does not go under Julias elbow under no condition. Also Ling does not own Julia whatsoever. SS 3~4 kills AOP. Julias Toughest challenge is Jin thats it.

If you want to have a character that can hang or dominate other characters than Nina is the best choice however she takes a lot of time and effort to play her at that level.

#32

:mad:Hate Nina… almost as much as I hate Lee. but anyways…

The issue here was not about his 2,4 which is -12 on block not actual animation before impact which is what I was trying to say. It was about him saying saying Julias ss+3,4 was 11 frames, which had absolutely nothing to do with wheather it was safe or not and it is 14 frames before impact and -10 on recovery which means she should be safe afterwards as long as she doesnt do anything but block. Then he went further to say “she cant ss ls” when the standard response to a ls from Jin IS ss+3,4. Her elbow to kick can be delayed so you will never be able to 100% predict it every time. Plus ff+1 is totally safe to abuse man. You can mix it up will minimal effort and if Jin is poke happy he gets kicked and goes for a ride into okizimie. At max range she can abuse 4,4 and bait counters, if he gets too close use f+1+2 to push him out. Most Jins will get frustrated and go for ls and then they eat the ss+3,4. 1~2,1 is great but not nearly godo enough to abuse. Its punishable as hell, but because you can 1~2, 3 or 4 you can mix it up so people wont try to rush you. Its dangerous up close where most people dont think to duck the follow up kick so they just block it. Its alot mental too, most people at that range are just happy they didnt get ch. If you are having people attack you immediately after it you arent using it properly. (Buy you know this) Hell, if you can get them to block b+3 you can get the 4 for free and they cant do jack. Which brings me to another point, Julia’s mids are so powerful most people arent even brave enough to block low unless they are 120% sure, you should know this too. Further more, no matter how good you are doing in a match against her all she needs to do is ch into a juggle one time, then okizime/wake ups. You can ss into 2/3,4/mad axes, go back to neutral and d/f+4,2 (which is also safe to abuse as a poke by th way), and if they break the throw just back up and 4,4 or max range 1~1,2 thier ass. Most people will die before they have a chance to re establish an offence again anyway. Her only downfall is that where other characters can poke you and be 100% sure you can punish it, she has to play an edgy mind game that require you to always be conscious of spacing. But its still very effective in high or low level play because she can punish people so hard for little fuck ups. People underestimate her in t4 because she doesnt have alot of things she can do for free like Jin, or Lee, etc. But to say he owns her? That just pissed me off, and I will admit it. But that was so off I couldnt let it go. I also play Julia as a main since Tag, always used an all chang team, I am not indignant enough to refuse to admit she can be punished very badly on alot of her moves, but so can any character in the game (except Jin who is virtually + on everything). That is why you use safe pokes. She is a bait character, which means you dont play her hyper offensively, you get ch and then kill them with wake up games. But if you play her, you know this. And since the jist of my posts have said this what was the point of posting punishments for moves that are obvious? It was never my intention to mislead thing biasly so in this case if I have I apologise. But my comment still stands. If Mr. Gamble believes he can serve my julia with “heihachi” then by all means me and the crew will make the drive and be more than happy to school him. Or attempt to, wich ever suits the outcome.

Edit: I would gladly put that much up if i had it. We can probably go 25, maybe 50. Depends on if I have to pay for all these goons to come or if they chip in for gas and shit. Where are yall in Col SC. I will need directions like a mothafucka cause I cant find shit to save my life

#33

We are in Columbia. Where are you guys comming from. And if it is going to be a few of you guys comming down then maybe I can get Josh and some Charleston peeps down here and we can have an ultimate showdown. Just give me a date when you guys are can make it down.

Anways I don’t ever say that Julia cannot hang with the top tier characters but I do say that against on (Jin) she is an underdog.

A couple of things that I will point out that may help you game is dont do 4,4 ever. That stuff will not pass against a good player. Good players will parry the low hitting second 4 on reaction all the time. The better thing to do with julia is d+4. Yes it is slow but it catches people by suprise a lot if you don’t over abuse it. I have some matches of me and Jackie Tran(One of the top 4 US players) we went at it Julia vs Julia and I caught him with a lot of d+4. Actually I catch a lot of people with d+4 it only gets blocked like less than 10% of the time but it all depends on how you use it.

Another thing dont delay the 4 after the elbow. At least dont do it more than once in a match if at all. If you delay it an 8 frame jabber can beat the delayed kick. Also when you delay it people can SS step it. when it is not delayed they cannot SS it or interrupt it.

Also Good Jin players will not let Julia SS the LS. Dont get in the habbit of trying to go for SS 3~4. Good Jin players will always do the version of the LS that is the fastest and Unsidestepable by certain characters(Julia, Ling, and Kuma). So please don’t go for SS3~4 you will get launched if you are playing me or Wayne or any good player.

Well hope that we can set something up Where we can get a lot op people together from all around

#34

Probably ganna have to play something else besides T4 If I am ganna get these kids to come. I am bringin a few peeps cause to make the trip by myself is just lame really… get there and have no one to clown with. I am thinking we could do…

TTT
T4
GGXX
and maybe some MvC2 if yall are down.
And then all go out to eat some where local that is good for groups. Yall choose. Or if you would rather play and run that is fine too. But not as cool,. :stuck_out_tongue:

We doin this arcade style or console.

Ganna try to do it as soon as possible, cause I am military I dont wanna get stationed on the other side of the US and not be able to come through. I am afraid the delay is ganna be in rounding folx up. The more the better though. Cause I wanna see what level the Southeastern GGXX community is on (besides florida) anyways. Most likely, the next holiday we should be able to get out there, if not before. Work is crazy.

#35

Post in this thread.
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40467&goto=lastpost

#36

Julia vs. Jin…

What is Julia going to do against him? She has to turtle up which gives Jin a lot of flexibility. Jin can’t pressure brainlessly of course because of her counter hit ability. Parrying her elbow is one important element and learning how to block correctly. Low parrying also helps out a lot. It’s probably about 6.5/3.5 out of ten in favor of Jin. All Jin has to do is stay calm and execute for the win.

Just because some guy won the T4 nationals with Julia against Jin doesn’t prove anything. I was there and the kid that was playing Jin repeatdly made the same mistake over and over which cost him the title. He probably was nervous.

#37

Doesnt matter. I hate Jin, my standing is bias on the matter. I am also an ass about it, because Jin is so fucking broken. Go figure-- one of the reasons I stopped playing T4 competitively. He is brainless as hell and I hate being forced to pick Ling or Lee to beat him. Its rediculous.

They shouldnt even call this game tekken- Its Jin, part 3. So fuck it, I’m not apologising. I am starting a club…

Fuck Jin.

(hope this isnt considered flaming, cause it wasnt intentionaly directed at anyone spicific. Unless your name is Jin, in which case D13 plz…)

#38

Don’t forget Nina.

1+4 that shit.

#39

Nina works wonders too. But I dont digg the blonds… lol But really, she just isnt a play style that I can get into fluently. She is fair in all aspects when compared to Ling, but I just dont mesh as well with her. Alex got me started on that whole Ling bull shit… she is way too good. Also, yoshi in the right hands is broken too, but thats another story.

Used to play Law alot, bridging over from Tag. But after a while, you get tired of eating electrics for trying to counter everything. So I just sorta stopped playing him in 4… especially since gukes is way better than mine. But I still mess around with him in Tag. You ganna be there on the 31st?

Ahem, oh yes- almost forgot. FUCK JIN. :stuck_out_tongue: