3D FG players who learned 2D FGs and 2D FGs players who learned 3D FGs


#1

Jaxel said 3D FGs players have had more success in 2D FGs than the other way around

Fuudo (Virtua Fighter)
Floe (Soul Calibur 2)
Wolfkrone (I’m guess Soul Calibur 4 was his first game from his name sake)

I can only think of Mr. Naps AKA Emphy for someone who’ve converted from 2D to 3D.

Is this true?

Why is it easier for 3D players to make the switch and do well in 2D fighters than vice versa?


#2

No and Jaxel isn’t an authority on anything.
The thing is that 3D games need more commitment because they demand more memorization of specifics just to get to the “real” game, while 2D games require less knowledge and just the fundamentals can get you farther.


#3

Valle plays Tekken. I believe Justin does as well.


#4

There’s no generalized skillset that transfers over between the two. General ideas about how to read opponents …maybe? A method to go about learning a FG – definitely. The reason Fuudo and Itazan play both well is because they are willing to put the time in to learn both and having access to a vast pool of comp facilitates it.

I’d venture a guess that that’s the case for most, and 3D vs. 2D is not even a useful debate to have. This thread sucks.


#5

Well, the 3D games that come to my mind at this moment have dozens of moves per character, while 2D games usually have much less than that, so that may help a bit.


#6

Majority of those moves aren’t even really used in high level play anyway.


#7

Not necessarily.


#8

Ryan Hart played Tekken 5, dunno where he started but he’s pretty good 2d/3d. So did Ken I although he’s not really a top player in Tekken he’s decent from what I’ve seen. Tokido plays Tekken at a not top top but still quite high level. Its also hard to say that just because someone started with a 3d fighter in 2002 (SC2) is why they’re good at 2d fighters now. I play both at a fairly mediocre level and I’d say there isn’t a significant amount of transferance between games aside from general mentalitity so its more like there isn’t a great amount of overlap between communities.

Its probably easier to just say that these players are good players?


#9

I am thinking its because 3D fighters help them memorize stuff better? Its not like you have to deal with 30+ normal moves in a SF character. Not that I am saying that 2D fighters are not deep, there is actually a lot of depth that a fireball on a 2D playing field can create after all, its just that (most of the time) if you want to know how to fight a character in a 3D game then you’re going to have to know the properties of all their moves and they usually have a LOT.

Edit: And hopefully this thread doesn’t turn into a 2D vs 3D war >.>


#10

I was just referring to the accessibility of starting to play a 3D game. A long move list of mostly useless moves doesn’t add any depth at high level play.

In both you need to be able to read the opponent but the pace of the game is different. In 3D the need to read is more frequent since an advantage is more momentary.(usually based on ±frames) In 2D you read to get into a better position that will change the risk-reward of the next read greatly in your favor over the opponent, and that is not something that lasts only a single moment.


#11

As a mostly 2D player, I just cant understand 3D fighters. First off is side stepping. Opponent does it and i’m dead. I do it and I’m hit, even by vertical moves. Hitboxes in these games make less sense than 2D games too. You’ll get hit by things not touching you, but then get hit by a high while your opponent clearly crouched it. Also, reacting low and blocking high is just so foreign, especially when a ton of moves look low and are not and vice versa. With the plethora of moves every character has, its all a bit overwhelming. Teching throws is so stupid. You can simply mash an attack button and tech a throw, while also blocking if its Soul Calibur. Oh and memorizing opponent’s strings is boring. Also, damage is too high. Finally, the Oki system is so crazy. I cant just get up and block ahlf the time my fighter is rolling around. Most the wake up moves seem trash, yet when opponents do them to me they’re seemingly invincible. Just laying on the ground works a bunch…I just dont like the huge amount of options tbh when all I want to do is get up and block.

I wish I could be good at 3D fighters, but they simply dont make sense to me. I’m still a fan though and buy new game, and respect those who play them at a high level. The footsies in games like VF and Tekken are marvelous.


#12

What about Nuki? He’s a 2D player who became well known for his Aoi play in Virtua Fighter.

And they’re just different. If you’re willing to play and have competition, then you’ll get good. Look at Emphy/Naps: he found something interesting about Tekken and there were good players there, so that helped him want to get better(which he did).


#13

ya I wouldn’t put too much stock in that statement. Can you really come to a conclusion on the matter based on the half a dozen players that have made the transition successfully? Jaxel has never appeared to be somebody particularly insightful to me.

I’d think it would be hard for anyone to start Tekken these days considering you’ll have to learn 60 matchups, and until recently that was really the only name in town for 3D outside of Japan.


#14

Completely wrong. Korea and China (HK, Shanghai, Taiwan) play VF to this day. Hell, Korean players changed VF3TB’s metagame single-handedly. These countries may seem like tekken-town but there’s a scene and it has been pretty strong. Even US and Euro scenes have a few exceptional players that have caught up to the Japanese on various occasions.

Trying to frame the barrier to entry in Tekken as insurmountable sounds more like tearing than a legitimate concern. Lots of memorization involved but some people learn and retain it better than others. I don’t like it but some do!

ALSO! Tekken players in the US do better against JP and KR players than any other fighting game scene, lol.

edited so I don’t get dogpiled further


#15

I don’t think pherai was talking about high level players. Having 60 plus moves is really daunting for someone new to a game trying to get into it.


#16

You didn’t understand what he is saying.
The better your competition is, the less surprises you’ll encounter but…
On the defensive you have to be familiar with a lot of shit, just so that you won’t get scrubbed out by some schmuck.
An obvious example is 10 strings. Yes, they are useless in the long run, but when you see them for the 1st time, it’s basically a free win for the opponent. And I’ve seen top Koreans lose to 10 strings they didn’t know. And that one time is sometimes all you need to win a tournament match.
So to not get scrubbed out in tournaments, vs many different people and characters, think how much you need to know…


#17

I definitely did understand. The move lists are long and there are a lot of character-specific tricks in those games. That doesn’t make it insurmountable. I personally don’t find it fun, but some do like the games.

I’m not sure why you think I didn’t get that lol.

edit: The amount of memorization in just getting the basics of a language together is an order of magnitude higher than anything in a FG. It’s also quite doable.

edit: added text in bold


#18

pherai’s talking about matchups, not moves. Like he said, there are like 50-60 characters in T6:BR, and even if it’s not as intimidating as it seems, that’s still a lot of characters to learn to beat, which could be a turn-off.


#19

Yes, learning how to fight 60 characters is daunting. The movelists are unique and there is a lot of memorization. Why do you continue to assume I don’t know what he means?


#20

When it comes to the topic, I doubt It’s true that 3d players have more success in 2d games than vice versa, the two doesn’t really stack up in comparison when it comes to game play, so experience in one doesn’t neccessarily give you an edge in the other. Which players of both has had the most success when migrating over, I dunno, and why would anybody care?

One thing I’d want to say to the “have to learn dozens of moves in 3d games” argument is that it’s funny because it not like in 2d fighters a character’s full move list is entirely usable, some characters have some specials and such that there’s no real use for, for instance Dudley’s Thunderbolt, and the same applies to 3d fighters as well. So why would people think they’d have to learn and know how to do all of Hwoarang’s 176 move list entries is beyond me. Granted, the move lists are shorter in 2d fighters so you don’t have to bother you head so much, but we living in the digital age with the internet where information is abundant, there’s just no argument. New players wouldn’t know which moves are good either way be it a 2d or 3d game.

About having to learn 60 matchups, that doesn’t really hold place in Tekken since there’s not really a traditional 2d way of matchups meaning you’d have to play your character according to your opponent’s character. What you really need to do is to just play your character’s game, perhaps know a few character specific juggles, but the important thing is to know your opponents moves and general style of play. So in a sense you don’t need to learn 60 matchups, you need to learn 60 characters, heh.

And 10-strings are great. People bitch about them being useless, then they get hit by Zafina’s and lose the game. Nobody knows full 10-strings aside from characters like Law, Paul and Mishimas, so that’s why you see them working even in Korean level play.

By the way T6BR has 38 characters.