Hahaha I was about ten minutes from linking to exactly these examples.
I don’t think it needs its own category like startup, active, recovery or anything.
a note or icon to denote that it has some form of extreme priority (in the form of invincibility) would probably be useful to newer players trying to understand certain outcomes.
something i had noted in some of my info i’m working on. just been really slow due to life and my own other projects unfortunately :<
feel kind of bad about how slow i’ve been when i think of it now but it’ll come around and i’ll put up some fun/cool/useful stuff.
Holy hell this thread is still alive. To think I made this post 10 years ago.
You mean for shotos only?
I don’t think invincibility is that much important.
Also, if i add something about it, i think i must also add some other useful linked info about full or upper/lower invincibility (like Gouki HP srk) and throw invincibility.
Anyway, as Pherai said, all can be already directly seen on my site, with frames animation and also with the ‘global view’ kind of timeline…
I’m not making a motion for invincibility, I just think most people would find it useful. I for one don’t think to look for invincibility frames when comparing data but have found myself searching for that info on a rare occasion, so I can’t imagine that it would hurt. For instance, guy keeps getting hit on wake up by uppercut and can’t find a way to beat it. He looks for info on its invincibility and finds info pertaining directly to his request. The way things are now, he’d have to know there isn’t such a thing as invincibility, but rather invulnerability and only due to a lack of vulnerability and not invincibility as some form of greater qualification. But maybe I’m over-thinking things. If anything, it could help with concurrency issues and narrowing one’s threats/options.
Jinrai’s invulnerability beats Ryu’s ex SRK invulnerability without breaking a sweat.
Are you sure? Does that mean it’s high invincibility and low vulnerable?
well if you want to be more specific, no one in the game is invincible ever.
everyone is just invulnerable to some extent. since everyone can lose a round which is more what invincible means… but i get what you meant and yeah basically. he isnt much vulnerable in shippu
ryu’s ex srk is fully invulnerable through startup into the start of the move hitting. ken is never actually invulnerable during shippu. just the move has a massive hitbox and his hurtbox is very far away from it making it almost have invulnerability. however if ryu did ex srk as ken did shippu, as long as ryu is up close to ken ryu should win afaik.
Good points. I’ll have to test it out.
In the last Tourney at Super Arcade there was a moment that inspired that comment.
I believe it completely. Shippu has such a fat area that hits and ryu’s srk has a tiny box. so as long as ken isnt right on top of ryu (why would he be if hes gonna use shippu) ryu’s ex srk should be eaten up.
I tried testing out this shippu vs ex srk business in fba-rr, and I couldn’t find a way to make ryu win. I made it so that ryu’s got an active frame at the same time that ken’s vulnerability starts back up.
This is ryu’s first active frame, which doesn’t hit because ken is invulnerable.
This is Ken’s first active frame.
I assume they don’t trade because supers have more priority than special moves. It also looks like supers ignore invulnerability by being able to hit pushboxes.
It’s also worth mentioning that the fba-rr script that draws hitboxes lags behind a frame, which is why it looks like ryu is getting hit at the same time he has an active frame.
i cant imagine it can hit pushbox, its got to be the super > special thing.
cool though, that would explain it. i just always assumed it wouldn’t work because of the required timing and spacing but super > special priority makes it clear.
I didn’t think it could hit pushboxes either, but ryu doesn’t have any vulnerability hitboxes. It would also explain why supers can hit during a reset and why genei jin stuffs reversal ex srks.
Yeah super attacks have always hit with a different qualification. Nice to see that illustrated.
That is strange that you couldn’t figure out when Ryu can strike. It is a tricky super and I have, maybe once, got Ken on a Power Bomb from Alex. I started the move on Ken before he started the super so when he activated super, hands were well out and ready to reel him in
The reason shippu beats ex srk is because it has more priority. Throws have more priority than supers, which is why powerbomb beats it, but the grab has to be active as soon as shippu is active.
I repeat and offer the solace of a grain of salt, priority in the sense that in an unspecified situation x will always beat y is just not true.
I guess I should clear that up. I know some people use “priority” to describe the startup of a move or its number of active frames or whatever. I’m talking about the priority system for the types of hitboxes coded in the game - what happens when the active frames of two moves intersect.