3rd Strike Frame Data


#483

I’m not making a motion for invincibility, I just think most people would find it useful. I for one don’t think to look for invincibility frames when comparing data but have found myself searching for that info on a rare occasion, so I can’t imagine that it would hurt. For instance, guy keeps getting hit on wake up by uppercut and can’t find a way to beat it. He looks for info on its invincibility and finds info pertaining directly to his request. The way things are now, he’d have to know there isn’t such a thing as invincibility, but rather invulnerability and only due to a lack of vulnerability and not invincibility as some form of greater qualification. But maybe I’m over-thinking things. If anything, it could help with concurrency issues and narrowing one’s threats/options.


#484

Jinrai’s invulnerability beats Ryu’s ex SRK invulnerability without breaking a sweat.


#485

Are you sure? Does that mean it’s high invincibility and low vulnerable?


#486

well if you want to be more specific, no one in the game is invincible ever.

everyone is just invulnerable to some extent. since everyone can lose a round which is more what invincible means… but i get what you meant and yeah basically. he isnt much vulnerable in shippu

ryu’s ex srk is fully invulnerable through startup into the start of the move hitting. ken is never actually invulnerable during shippu. just the move has a massive hitbox and his hurtbox is very far away from it making it almost have invulnerability. however if ryu did ex srk as ken did shippu, as long as ryu is up close to ken ryu should win afaik.


#487

Good points. I’ll have to test it out.

In the last Tourney at Super Arcade there was a moment that inspired that comment.


#488

I believe it completely. Shippu has such a fat area that hits and ryu’s srk has a tiny box. so as long as ken isnt right on top of ryu (why would he be if hes gonna use shippu) ryu’s ex srk should be eaten up.


#489

I tried testing out this shippu vs ex srk business in fba-rr, and I couldn’t find a way to make ryu win. I made it so that ryu’s got an active frame at the same time that ken’s vulnerability starts back up.

This is ryu’s first active frame, which doesn’t hit because ken is invulnerable.

This is Ken’s first active frame.

I assume they don’t trade because supers have more priority than special moves. It also looks like supers ignore invulnerability by being able to hit pushboxes.

It’s also worth mentioning that the fba-rr script that draws hitboxes lags behind a frame, which is why it looks like ryu is getting hit at the same time he has an active frame.


#490

i cant imagine it can hit pushbox, its got to be the super > special thing.
cool though, that would explain it. i just always assumed it wouldn’t work because of the required timing and spacing but super > special priority makes it clear.


#491

I didn’t think it could hit pushboxes either, but ryu doesn’t have any vulnerability hitboxes. It would also explain why supers can hit during a reset and why genei jin stuffs reversal ex srks.


#492

Yeah super attacks have always hit with a different qualification. Nice to see that illustrated.


#493

That is strange that you couldn’t figure out when Ryu can strike. It is a tricky super and I have, maybe once, got Ken on a Power Bomb from Alex. I started the move on Ken before he started the super so when he activated super, hands were well out and ready to reel him in


#494

The reason shippu beats ex srk is because it has more priority. Throws have more priority than supers, which is why powerbomb beats it, but the grab has to be active as soon as shippu is active.


#495

I repeat and offer the solace of a grain of salt, priority in the sense that in an unspecified situation x will always beat y is just not true.


#496

I guess I should clear that up. I know some people use “priority” to describe the startup of a move or its number of active frames or whatever. I’m talking about the priority system for the types of hitboxes coded in the game - what happens when the active frames of two moves intersect.


#497

They trade. Supers have no hurtbox in many cases and thus the seemingly invincible state but if there are two hit boxes one for each character and each of those hitboxes overlaps with a hitbox, they will trade.


#498

Found this draft recorded for this topic (didn’t know forum allowed one draft per topic), don’t know why i didn’t posted it at the time. It was about Isotopez find about SA3 being able to hit pushbox, and i was answering to Tebbo post i guess:

Actually, seems it does work with pushbox acting like regular hitbox.
Tested it with SA3 vs ex SRK (both ken):

  • if SA3 doesn’t overlap pushbox (is too far), then nothing happen even when active hitbox is over srk active hitbox (quite normal)
  • if SA3 does overlap it (even from 1 pixel), then it hits even though ther’s supposedly nothing to hit (except pushbox and active HB)

Also, it doesn’t seem to apply vs another SA, as Oro ex SA1 still remains invulnerable vs Jinrai, active hitbox overlapping pushbox or not. Same for Jinrai vs Ken SA1 or 2…
Good find isotopez!


#499
Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/BWCc8N1.png

There is no trade. The ex srk overlaps with Ken, but Ken does not get hit by it. The first hit of shippu overlaps with Ryu, and he does get hit by it. The same thing happens with throws as long as the super has a throwable hitbox, which shippu does, but instead of shippu winning, throw wins.


#500

Crazy that shippu can hit pushboxes.
I wonder if that is common or uncommon.


#501

I’ve only tested genei jin, shippu, corkscrew blow, and tanden renki. I know from experience that activation supers like tengu stone and denjin hit pushboxes. Tanden renki doesn’t seem to give makoto’s normals super priority though. I assume the general rule is that supers can hit pushboxes, with a few exceptions, like tanden renki and grab supers.


#502

Isotopez

What do the colors on there mean? Are the green push, red hit and blue hurt? I couldn’t guess for the white ones.

It looks there like Ryu is getting hit on the ground which is strange for this scenario because you said you used EX uppercut and all situations where it was EX upper vs Shippu usually end up with the EX upper getting hit out of the ground.