question…is there a way to determine hit advantage of special moves? i cant seem to find it on ESN’s site
you can find that information at game restaurant.
to find the frame data for a character, select the character picture on the left table. once youve gone to the character page, click 一覧 on the far right of the header table.
under H&G硬直 you’ll see the advantage for moves that are guarded (G) moves that hit the opponent standing (立) and moves that hit the opponent crouching (屈)
the D in that information stands for “down” as in the move knockdown the opponent.
hope you find this helpful. @djdjw
let me know if you have any further questions on how to read the frame data or any part of the website.
tyvm sir very helpful
demon 0 frame!
This was mainly a response to Hax, but this portion fits better here…
I assume you’re referring to the red damage on Chun’s life? Damage actually occurs one frame before your reel animation, meaning you need to, in effect, be blocking/parrying at least 2 frames before the move connects visually (5/6 realtime with the reported input lag). Honestly always wondered if that actually has something to do with the varied frame data reported, some being early by a frame and such… maybe they counted until the red? Or factored in how many frames you’d have to block it?
@ESN How did you measure start up again? Before the red? When the hit color showed? Would this mean that potentially start up could be accurately measured as 1 frame before the red, as on that next/current frame, it’s a “done deal”? Or another frame earlier?
The startup definition i used is:
the number of frames from when the game registered an attack until the frame when opponent is considered as being hit, without including that last frame. On screen, it will corresponds to “red bar - 1”, and “sparks/char hit - 2”.
Full example of how i processed for Gouki cl.LP, first number is current internal frame number of emulator, second is P1 attack variable, third is P2 attack variable (which also show if he is being hit):
- 79471 : 0 / 0 --> button pressed, startup = 0
- 79472 : 4 / 0 --> P1 attack registered, startup = 1
- 79473 : 4 / 0 --> startup = 2
- 79474 : 4 / 0 --> startup = 3
- 79475 : 4 / 1 --> P2 registered as hit, red bar, hitstun = 1
- 79476 : 4 / 1 --> sparks/char bit, hitstun = 2
- 79477 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 3
- 79478 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 4
- 79479 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 5
- 79480 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 6
- 79481 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 7
- 79482 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 8
- 79483 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 9
- 79484 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 10
- 79485 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 11
- 79486 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 12
- 79487 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 13
- 79488 : 4 / 1 --> hitstun = 14
- 79489 : 0 / 1 --> hit advantage = 1
- 79490 : 0 / 1 --> hit advantage = 2
- 79491 : 0 / 1 --> hit advantage = 3, P2 can do something (jump for example) so it’ll execute on last frame
- 79492 : 0 / 0 --> P2 starts to jump
So we got:
- startup = 3
- hit advantage = 3
On a side note, iirc that’s not the same on OE. For this same example, sparks would appear only at 79477 while “char hit” would still happen at 79476.
Will check this again tonight if i can.
Awesome, thanks for clarifying that again! That’s interesting about the difference on OE too!
Speaking of… I wonder about certain OE chains, maybe it’s just a “game speed” issue, but for instance I can Jab Jab Short with Mak so much more consistently on FBA, GGPO, Shmup and Groovy than I can on OE. On Emu I can just double tap and be pretty sure it will combo, but on OE it feels like the pushback of Jab either happens too fast, or the chain window is just smaller, or perhaps happens 1 frame too late (making it a 50% “chance” to not combo) for that particular move… Or it’s an issue with self cancelling moves on OE? Haven’t any issues with Jab - Short, just the Jab Jab.
Probably just me messing the timing up, but I was curious if the self cancel window is the same on r608 as it is on 512. Thanks for that answer again.
My bad, i was a little wrong about the OE differences.
After checking with 120fps videos, i got (tested with Chun far HK):
- no differences found between chars animations (sprites change at the exact same frame)
- sparks/char hit happen at the same frame on both version
- OE red bar happen 1 frame later than fba-rr, same frame as sparks
- P1 super bar is filled 1 frames later on OE, same frame as red bar
That alone makes confirm harder on OE for those watching for super bar or health. (not my case)
Needing help figuring out how towards+jab combos into st mp with dudley. I tried reading the frame data from ESN’s site but i still dont quite understand if anyone can help please check it out for me. frame data pertaining to the towards jab being only +1 on hit and st mp having the 4 frame startup how does it combo? i was just in training mode then i noticed that with the correct timing the st mp would combo. I was just messing around with towards jab since its never used but it has super cancellable properties and other boxes colored in the frame data list. came up with this combo and was just curious thanks in advance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm4sX0ZN9NY&feature=youtu.be
It’s a target combo.
0_0 totally missed that…sorry guys thanks iso
ok so besides ->+jab , mp target combo, do any other of dudleys target combos allow the frames of st mp to cancel/link into ducking super? i have tried but no success
According to the frame data, Oro’s close standing jab is +5 on hit, and his close standing forward is 4f startup. That should be a 1f link, right? I’ve never gotten that link to work. Is this an error in the frame data, or am I doing/reading it wrong?
I put the training dummy on “jump” and “parrying” in 3SO, and I noticed that if I mash jabs to get the dummy at the right height, I can time a cs.MP and it they just get hit by it, sort of like a Darkstalkers unblock. Are there unparry frames on landing, or is this just a training mode glitch?
Oro’s close forward might have two key frames for hitboxes, one up real close and the second one out more towards his knee which makes that link impossible. I don’t think his close jab has the same 5+ property so that’s probably out of the question too.
since you’re waiting the full time till the jab is done youll be as far away as the pushback sends you i imagine (for that move).
so isnt it possible his mk just doesn’t reach?
i mean think about it. that would be the kind of confirm everyone who plays oro would use all the time. have like a bajillion frames to see the jab hit and then react and if it doesn’t hit, you’re still at advantage anyway.
thats like some sf4 shit. punch/kick repeatedly until something hits then just keep pressing buttons for more damage.
I’m not sure I understand. Do you mean that it’s just hitting a frame later or something?
Close jab pushes him out far enough out that he can’t get another cs.jab without walking back in, but cs.MK activates really far away for a “close” move. It’s definitely in range, it just won’t link for some reason. If Dander is telling me that I’m just getting pushed out far enough that the MK is hitting a frame or two later, that makes sense, but it seems kind of weird.
Yeah that’s why I want to do it!
Oh well. Any idea about the parry thing?
I was saying that Oro’s jab has some push back to it, like Tebbo referenced above, and that close forward might have two key frames to it as it is with many normals in 3s. The first active frame’s hitbox is smaller in accordance with the placement of his knee at that keyframe and then grows larger, gradually, over the next subsequent frames as he lifts his thigh parallel to the ground and has his knee meet the gut. I don’t know that this is truly the case but this is how hitboxes work in 3s and thought it might help you in your quest.
So maybe if you could get the close jab to hit with the very last frame in some weird Sean roll combo maybe you could test this out. If you need to pop in relatively quickly you could try super jumping into the situation.
hitbox seems pretty consistent throughout (only seems to have 3 active frames)… maybe try it with a programmable pad?? 1 frame links to another normal are tough in 3s
Good thing I said it just might be.
It’s strange, though, because I’m certain Chun’s back fierce works the way I mentioned above but the frame data is showing me something else…
I think it was JAK that linked the youtube video showing the back fierce working that way in play. Then again, it may have been one of the europeans.
I’ll look around and get back to you.
WAIT a seond, I just checked.the frame data. You are reading that shit way wrong bro. It’s active for 1 frame on frame 3 and recovers for the 5 frame advantage you gained on hit. You have to do a 4 frame attack in 0 frames bro!
What I’m saying is that you get +5 but that’s on hit and you still have to recover -5.
The atttack is 8 frames with the exclusion of the neutral frame.
Oro lifts his arm for 2 frames,
hits on 3,
and uses the 5 frames to bring his arm back down.
So he sets up a fifty fifty parry play but cannot combo into anything else due to a lack of frames. At least it’s a neutral advantage. Perfect for baiting action out of turtles or perfect for tick grabbing.