Now I understand that this is a wish thread. Nothing important going on here. Most of this is theory and I would like to hear other peoples opinion.
Now I’m a balance fanatic, and the more balanced a game is the more attracted I am to it. I understand that there practically isn’t a PERFECTLY balanced game out there, and achieving that would be almost impossible cause theres always someone out there just ready to break it. So here it goes.
I think the 2 main factors about balancing 3s is to not only balance the characters, but the super arts as well. To make every super art worth using for each character.
First finding a target balance is something to focus on. What character is balance enough to where each other character should be either degraded or upgraded to his level. In my opinion, I would say this character is Ryu. Not only is he a solid character, but all of his super arts are worth using.
So the balancing I’m going to be applying will be according to the tier list posted by eventhub.com late last year, and my personal opinion. Also I believe simple changes really make a characters performance. Even though some of these changes my seem small, I believe they can make a big difference.
First off lets hit the high tier characters:
Chun-Li: What makes Chun-Li such a dominating force in 3s is simply put, her Cr.Fwd (crouching forward) cancel to Houyoukusen (SAII). Not only does it hit low, comes out fast (6 frames), does great damage, and can set up more mix up opportunities; its also conformable, which also makes it safe in this case. Even though its this good, I think the most important part is that she has two stocks of this opinion, so by removing one stock of the Houyoukusen it should balance this out. She’ll be a danger once she has meter, but once she uses it, shes going to have to start all over again instead of possibly have half a meter ready to go.
Next, Chun-Li’s Hakkei (away fierce) snuffs so much that it practically has super art priority. I’m not saying remove it from the game, but I think if you changed the Hakkei’s command from A.Frc (away fierce) to Sc.Frc (standing close fierce), then its more fair in my opinion.
Now if you address the balance of Chun-Li’s super arts, I already did most of it by making her Houyoukusen only one stock. Chun-Li’s Kikoushou (SAI) is the longest range one frame super in the game, and can punish so much stuff on reversal. Also, the one thing Chun-Li has always lacked was a good anti-air, and the Tenseiranka (SAIII) can provide that to her, so I think its fine at this point.
Chun-Li’s Changes: Houyoukusen only one stock instead of two, change Hakkei’s command to Sc.Frc instead a A.Frc.
Yun: Everyone knows that Yun’s Geneijin (SAIII) is what makes him top tier. By balancing this out, you’ve practically put Yun where he needs to be. Geneijin is the second shortest super in the game, right behind his brothers Seieienbu. If you lengthen the meter to a reasonable level, then its not so bad. I would make the length +50% if not more.
Balencing the super arts has already been done in this case as well. By lengthening the Geneijin, its not so dominating, and the other super arts could be possibly considered.
Yun’s Changes: Increase the meter size of the Geneijin by at least 50%.
Ken: Ken’s main strategy is to land his Shippujinraikyaku (SAIII). The super is one of the best in the game. The bar is short, it has three stocks, it punishes allot of moves on reversal that would be considered safe otherwise (comes out in two frames), its conformable from double Cr.Sht (crouching short) and Cr.Stg (crouching strong), links from his Inazumakakotowari (away forward), allows freedom to use EX moves, and it’s range is good enough to land off of a canceled max range Cr.Fwd. Kens ability to control space when he has meter is like no other. So, it goes without saying that degrading the Shippujinraikyaku will balance him. I think by making the super a four frame super is a good first move, allowing some other moves to be safe when used against him and more importantly, making it impossible to link into it off of his Inazumakakotowari; but this isn’t enough. Reducing it down to two stocks would be good as well.
So now you look at balancing his super arts, and at first I compare his Shoryureppa (SAI) to his Shippujinraikyaku. Shoryureppa has better damage, one frame start up and more EX freedom; where as Shippujinraikyaku has shorter meters and a longer range. Even though many would argue and say that Shinryuken (SAII) is better then Shoryureppa, I personally would say the measurement between the two is not worth measuring. Yes its a better anti-air, but Ken already has good anti-air options, and Ken doesn’t have as many options as other characters have to pressure the opponent into jumping toward him.
Ken’s Changes: Make Shippujinraikyaku a four frame super instead of two frames and make it two stocks instead of three.
Makoto: Theres two things that make Makoto high tier in 3s. Her Karakusa (half circle away kick), and her rush down/mix up options (which Karakusa is a part of). Her jab Hayate (quarter circle toward punch) strings, EX Oroshi (quarter circle away punch), and Karakusa just make her rush down/mix up game have amazing potential. Again, most of this leads to her super arts. Abaretosanami (SAII), does so much stun damage and damage in general that it’s ridiculous; and off of a Karakusa as well. Land the Karakusa in one of her rush down patterns and the damage potential is insane. So with this said, the Karakusa is what needs to be effected to make her more balanced. Her entire offense revolves around landing this move. The damage and stun damage linked after landing a Karakusa should be scaled. So 100% stun and insane damage potential after landing it isn’t a problem. I would scale all damage and stun after the Karakusa by 30%.
I think at this point that balancing the super arts is easier. The Abaretosanami and the Seichusengodanzaki (SAI) are equal as this point. Modifying the Karakusa directly effects the Abaretosanami as well. The only one to focus on now is the Tandenrenki (SAIII). I think it should do +85% damage and she should be able to block while in this mode.
Makoto’s Changes: Make the all damage and stun dealt after the Karakusa scaled by -30% more and make the Tandenrenki does +85% damage instead of +75% and allow Makoto to block during this time.
Dudley: One of Dudley’s most predominate tools is his Dart Shot (T.Rdh). Its the 3rd fastest overhead in the game only by a frame, behind Hugo’s Cr.Rdh and Elena’s Handstand Whip (T.Fwd). What makes this overhead so powerful is because it can link into his Corkscrew Blow (SAIII) and Rocket Uppercut (SAI). If this link is removed, then Dudley is balance. Some people would argue that taking this away is to much, but actually Dudley has so many other mix up options that are under rated. So by changing his Rocket Uppercut and Corkscrew Blow and make them two frame supers instead of one frame, this should balance it out.
As far as balancing super arts, I just did it. The main thing that made Rocket Uppercut and Corkscrew Blow so much better then Rolling Thunder (SAII) is because they could link from the Dart Shot and Rolling Thunder couldn’t. Some would still argue and say that Rocket Uppercut and Corkscrew Blow are still better then Rolling Thunder cause Dudley’s EX moves are great, but Rolling Thunder does good damage and excellent stun, and its possible to combo after it given the situation. Plus, Rolling Thunder can punish opponents after being linked from a max range S.Rdh (standing roundhouse) and canceled from a T.Frc.
Dudley’s Changes: Make Rocket Uppercut and Corkscrew Blow two frame supers instead of one.
Yang: The one thing you see Yang player’s always doing is his Tourouzan (Qct.P). Yang’s Tourouzan is his primary tool in winning his game. If you effect this, you effect his entire game. Yang himself though isn’t so high up in the tiers though that he needs to be adjusted that much. So by simply reducing the damage of the Tourouzan just a little, this should cover it. I’m thinking -15%.
Yang has two good supers. The Seieienbu (SAIII) is the shortest meter in the game and is actually very underrated. Tenshinsenkyutai (SAII) provides him with a decent super and lots of meter for EX Tourouzan. Now the Raishinmahhaken (SAI) isn’t good at all. It my be safe, but the only time this applies is if its actually used; and with one long meter, and EX Tourouzans being used, this doesn’t factor in as much as if say Ken’s Shippujinraikyaku (Ken’s SAIII) were safe. Raishinmahhaken could be used to punish whiffs as well but its actually really slow (7 frames). So to have Raishinmahhaken compare to the other options, its should do +15% more damage and be a 4 frame super.
Yang’s Changes: Make Tourouzan do -15% less damage, and make Raishinmahhaken do +15% more damage and make it a 4 frame super art instead of 7.
Gouki, Urien, and Ryu: To me, these characters don’t need to be touched at all as far as balancing them as a character. There balanced enough. As far as super arts go…
Gouki: Gouki’s Messatsugouhadou (SAI) is his best super mainly because it can combo from a canceled max range Cr.Fwd. Messatsugourasen (SAIII) even though it may seem like it can as well, it can’t. As a matter of fact, it can barely catch them from a mid range canceled Cr.Fwd. The problem with the Mesattsugourasen is the range it covers. If it was faster, then it could hit the opponent before they get pushed back. So it should be a two frame super instead of three. Also the Mesattsugourasen’s air version has a 8 frame start up which is silly and that should be at least a 4 framer. So at this point the Mesattsugourasen still can’t hit a character from a canceled max range Cr.Fwd; but if you compare it to the Mesattsugouhadou, Mesattsugourasen sacrifices range for damage. Plus, its a great anti-air. So I personally would consider using it against Twelve or the twins. Now the Mesattsugoushouryu (SAII) is a one frame super but has horrible range. Even though it does more damage then the other two supers, it doesn’t make up for the lose in range. Therefore increase the stun damage quite a bit would be considerably useful, sense if Gouki stuns you, your pretty much screwed.
Gouki’s Changes: Make the Messatsugourasen a two frame start up instead of three and a 4 frame start up in air instead of 8. Make the Mesattsugoushouryu do another +40% more stun damage if not more.
Urien: Aegis Reflector (SAIII) is just to good of a super to compare. So making the possibilities of other super arts being selected is kind of hard. What I consider is if the Tyrant Punisher (SAI) could combo from a low attack, then it would make its usefulness increase greatly. Therefore, I would make Urien’s Cr.Sht (crouching short) chainable into his Cr.Jab, making it possible to cancel the Cr.Jab into Tyrant Punisher. This makes the super capable of being hit from a low and conformable hit. Now the Jupiter Thunder (SAII) also be able to benefit from this cause its a one frame super, but at the very first frame its at such a close range and comes out so slow that I believe it wouldn’t be able to hit off of this chain. Therefore I would make the Jupiter Thunder move forward faster, making this capable of working.
Urien’s Changes: Allow Urien’s Cr.Sht to chain to his Cr.Jab, and make Jupiter Thunder move forward faster allowing it to benefit from this chain.
Ryu: No changes needed
Now the lower tiers
Oro: Oro doesn’t need that many changes. Hes actually a pretty solid character; but if its any problem the Oro has its he can’t really get any conformable damage off of any low attack. Therefore I would modify his Sht-Fwd target chain. Any short should be able to chain into any standing forward; whether is standing close or far. Sc.Fwd should also be cancel-able when chained. So you can potentially do a Cr.Sht and chain it to a Sc.Fwd and cancel it into a Niouriki (half circle away punch). Other then that, thats it.
Oro’s Kishinriki (SAI) sucks bad, and doesn’t even compare to his other two super arts. I would simply make this super do ALLOT more damage.
Oro’s Changes: Make any of his shorts chain into any of his standing forwards. Make the Sc.Fwd in his target chain cancel-able just like his normal Sc.Fwd. Make his Kishinriki do +50% more damage.
Elena[/U}: Elena has the same problem as Oro does. She can’t do any good damage from a low attack thats either safe or conformable. Shes slightly lower tier then Oro, but by giving her this benefit, she can make more use of it then Oro can. Though if Elena had this ability, she would be the next Chun-Li, therefore to counter act that, hears what I’d do. I’d make Cr.Fwd cancel-able, but only to a special move, not a super. This will make her EX moves even more valuable to her then they already are.
Sense thats the case though, this make Brave Dance (SAII) and Spinning Beat (SAI) even better then Healing (SAIII) then they already are, but Brave Dance is still better then Spinning Beat. The Spinning Beats range just doesn’t compare to the Brave Dance which makes Brave Dance better. So I would increase the damage of the Spinning Beat by 10% and the range slightly; not enough to equal the Brave Dances, but still a little. I would make Healings bar allot shorter. Even though this gives Elena less ability to do EX moves then it already did, it allows her to heal allot more often, possibly making up for it.
Elena’s Changes: Make Cr.Fwd cancel-able to special moves. Increase the damage on Spinning Beat by 10% and the range by 20%. Shorten the Healing meter to 60% of its normal size.
Ibuki: Theres not to much I can say about Ibuki. The main problem she has is some of her normals whiff on most crouching characters. Ibuki as a character almost has everything she needs to be top tier, though she has a small stun bar and low life. To make Ibuki balanced, I would rise her defense to that of the twins first off, and the moves that do whiff against most crouching characters, like her Bonshougeri (T.Rdh), Youmen (A.Stg), Cr.Frc, and the 3rd hit of her Jab-Stg-Frc chain, hit against them.
Yamishigure (SAIII) has the potential of being a great super, and so does Yoroidoushi (SAII). The only reason Kasumisuzaku (SAI) is choosen all the time is cause of its EX potentials. I would make Yamishigure have two stocks, and would make Yoroidoushis throw version do more damage and the non-throw come out faster.
Ibuki’s Changes: Rise her defense to that of the twins. Make her Cr.Frc, 3rd hit of the Jab-Stg-Frc chain, Bonshougeri, and Youmen hit crouching characters. Have her Yamishigure two stocks, and her Yoroidoushis throw do +30% more damage and the non-throw have a 6 frame start up instead of 12.
Necro: Necro has lots of smaller problems that need to be fixed. First off his S.Stg whiffs against some crouching characters and that needs to change. His Rising Cobra (Qca.K) needs to be quicker, and his Cr.Stg needs to have better priority. His target chain should also be like it was in New Generation, where it didn’t have to be a A.Sht to chain, but any standing short would chain into his S.Stg. With these changes, one of his best pokes now hits all characters crouching, he has a good normal anti-air, a decent overhead, and a better target chain.
His super arts need change as well. Most people right now pick the Electric Snake (SAIII) for a good reason, and you’ll see some people pick Magnetic Storm (SAI) in cases where there playing against the twins or Twelve cause the super art is a good anti-air; but by giving him more priority on his Cr.Stg it makes his Electric Snake slightly more useful. In any case though, the Magnetic Storm doesn’t get all of its hits from a attack from the air, and it should. Slam Dance (SAII) should do more damage, and should be a one frame super.
Necro’s Changes: S.Stg hits all crouching characters, Rising Cobra start up should change to 18/20/22/18 instead of 23/25/27/25, Cr.Stg has more priority, target chain is modified so S.Sht can chain to S.Stg, All hits of the Magnetic Strom hit aired opponents, and Slam Dance does +10% more damage and is a one frame start up super.
Alex: Alex’s main problem, like most lower tier characters, is that he can’t do good damage from a low attack that is either safe or conformable. In which case, a few changes would be that his target chain Cr.Sht xx Cr.Fwd should be easier to land, cause for some reason the chain has a small chain window. I would also make him Cr.Rdh have a -6 frame advantage instead of -15. You may think thats a big jump but thats Makoto’s frame advantage on her sweep. Making his Cr.Stg cancel-able would also make him better, sense Alex really doesn’t have any long range normals that are cancel-able. I’d also make his Sc.Fwd only able to be parried high, instead of low and high.
As far as his super arts go, the Hyper Bomb (SAI) should be a one frame super. A one frame throw super that does that much damage and only a 360 motion can be powerful, just has a lack of EX moves and for Alex, his EX moves are great. The Stun Gun Head Butt (SAIII) Need to come out a little faster, possibly making it even harder to get out of the Slash Elbow xx Stun Gun trap. If this is the case though, I would increase the damage and the meter size so he can still have a little stored EX potential.
Alex’s Changes: Make it easier to chain his Cr.Sht xx Cr.Fwd chain. Cr.Rdh frame advantage should be -6 instead of -15. Make his Cr.Stg cancel-able. Make his Sc.Fwd only parried high instead of low and high. Hyper Bomb a one frame super. Make Stun Gun Head Butt a 23 frame super instead of 27, increase its damage by 15% and increase the meter size by 35%.
Remy: Like most lower tier characters, Remy lacks a low option into super that is safe or conformable. If you make his Cr.Sht have a frame advantage of +2/+2/+2 instead of a 0/0/0, it makes it linkable into his Sc.Sht, which is cancel-able to super. Make the frame advantage of his Amarinimukunaai Guille (T.Fwd) have a frame advantage of -1/0/+1 instead of -7/-6/-5, making it actually useful. Make his Cr.Fwd have a frame advantage of -5/-4/-3 instead of -9/-8/-7, making it only not safe against fast super arts. Finally, to make his target chain actually worth using, I would change it to Sc.Fwd xx S.Fwd instead of ending with S.Rdh. S.Rdh whiffs on almost all crouching characters and has horrible frame advantage.
As far as supers go, Light of Justice (SAI) and Supreme Rising Rage Flash (SAII) are pretty good already, so it comes to the Blue Nocturne (SAIII). The only thing that should really change about this super art is there should be another method of attack if you use it against an opponent in the air, so all the hits actually land.
Remy’s Changes: Make his Cr.Sht have a frame advantage of +2/+2/+2 instead of a 0/0/0, Make the frame advantage of his Amarinimukunaai Guille have a frame advantage of -1/0/+1 instead of -7/-6/-5, Make his Cr.Fwd have a frame advantage of -5/-4/-3 instead of -9/-8/-7, Make his target chain Sc.Fwd xx S.Fwd instead of Sc.Fwd xx S.Rdh. Make his Blue Nocturne land all of its hits on a aired opponent.
Q: Q lacks low and high options into super that are conformable or safe. So I would make Cr.Sht chain-able to Cr.Jab. I would make his Cr.Frc an overhead with a frame advantage of 0/+2/+4 so its linkable into the Double Deadly Combination (SAII). I would also make his S.Frc, Sc.Frc, and A.Frc have a frame advantage of -5 instead of -23, -22, and -20. I would also have his Capture & Deadly Blow (half circle away kick) have a start up of 8/9/10 instead of 12/13/14.
Q’s Total Destruction (SAIII) sucks bad. After applying the following changes, it even makes the Critical Combo Attack (SAI) and Double Deadly Combination even more useful compared to the Total Destruction. To make up for this, I would make Total Destruction do twice as much damage as it does right now.
Q’s Changes: Make Cr.Sht chain-able to Cr.Jab. Make is Cr.Frc an overhead and its frame advantage a 0/+2/+4 instead of a -3/-1/+1. Make his S.Frc, Sc.Frc, and A.Frc have a frame advantage of -5 instead of -23, -22, and -20. Make his Capture & Deadly Blow have a start up of 8/9/10 instead of 12/13/14. Make Total Destruction do twice as much damage.
Twelve: Twelve lacks damage potential more then any other character in the game; also almost all of his heavy moves are unsafe on block. So first change I would make is his S.Rdh and Cr.Frc frame advantage on block should be -3, and his Cr.Rdh frame advantage should be -7. Make his S.Stg and Cr.Stg cancel-able. I would make the Jab N.D.L have a start up of 8 frames so it can cancel and combo from his S.Stg, Sc.Stg, and Cr.Stg. Also make the A.X.E. have a -3 frame advantage on block. With all these frame advantage changes, this makes almost everything Twelve does safe. So he might not have great combos, but he has nothing to fear but a good parry. I would also give Twelve two target air chains. J.Jab xx J.Fwd and J.Sht xx J.Stg. This adds more air options for him.
Twelve X.F.L.A.T (SAII) need to do allot more damage to compare to the usefulness of his X.N.D.L (SAI). X.C.O.P.Y (SAIII) should be a little short of a meter. Now this argument I would take all the way. If you think Twelves X.C.O.P.Y is useless, then your wrong. If Twelve is playing against Gouki, X.C.O.P.Y is the way to go. In X.C.O.P.Y you can’t use any meter; but Gouki doesn’t need meter to do good damage, and he doesn’t have EX moves in the first place. Plus in X.C.O.P.Y you get more attack power , making his damage even more devastating and more defense, which is one of Gouki’s main weaknesses.
Twelve’s Changes: Make is his S.Rdh and Cr.Frc frame advantage on block should be -3 instead of -11 and -8. Make his Cr.Rdh frame advantage on block -7 instead of -11. Make his Cr.Stg and S.Stg cancel-able. Make his Jab N.D.L start up 8 frames instead of 15. Make A.X.E frame advantage on block a -3/-4/-5/-2 instead of -5/-6/-7/-4. Give him target chain J.Jab xx J.Fwd and J.Sht xx J.Stg. Make his X.F.L.A.T do +60% more damage and make his X.C.O.P.Y 35% shorter.
Hugo: Much like Remy and Q, making a few changes here and there can make Hugo allot better then he is. Make his Cr.Stg cancel-able. Hugo’s Monster Lariat (Qct.K) whiff right over crouching characters. If the attack whiffs entirely, Hugo should recovery almost immediately. This can allow him to move in closer to the opponent where he needs to be. The Hammer Hook (T.Frc) should also have the same property and recover immediately if it doesn’t hit or get blocked. His Shootdown Backbreaker (Zmt.K) should come out faster, so the start up would be 5/5/5 instead of 5/17/13.
Hugo’s Gigas Breaker (SAI) and Hammer Frenzy (SAIII) are decent supers. Though his Megaton Press (SAII) needs a little work. It should not necessarily start up faster, but travel distance faster, and do a little more damage.
Hugo’s Changes: Make his Cr.Stg cancel-able. Make his Monster Lariat and Hammer Hook recovery almost immediately if it doesn’t hit or is blocked. Make his Shootdown Backbreaker come out in 5/5/5 instead of 5/17/13. Make is Megaton Press travel distance faster and so 15% more damage.
Sean: Well… Sean is Sean. He is the “Dan” of 3s and well… he’s total crap. Honestly I think he should stay where he’s at as a joke character, exactly how Dan is in SFZ.
So thats all of it. Its allot of infromation and I don’t expect to get good responces from people; but damn if there was a way I could Mugen this shit like this I think to me it would be worth playing. I don’t know. Anyway, tell me what you think.