60hz vs 120hz


#1

So im about to buy a new tv for my bedroom & was wondering which tv to get.

Since i always buy Sony Tv’, my options are the following

Sony KDL - 40EX400 60hz
Sony KDL - 40EX500 120hz
Sony KDL - 40EX700 120hz LED

I want to mainly use this for playing gaming (SF2HDR) & computer use… Im worried about input lag, does anyone here have these tv’s?

I was about to buy the Sony 60hz but the guy from Best Buy seem pretty adamant that i should get 120hz tv, enough for me to make a thread before i buy.


#2

60hz vs 120hz is irrelevant to gaming, as you should always be gaming in 60hz.

120hz is meant for movies and shows, its really a preference thing. Some people like the way it looks, others will tell you it makes the picture look really awkward. Go 120hz if you want 3D viewing though, otherwise it doesnt matter.


#3

IIRC, 60hz for a gaming tv.
The first one on your list is the exact one I’m getting for my man cave.

The guy at best buy is just trying to get you to spend more $$$.
Avoid their cables like the plague. Go monoprice instead. Their cables are equal or better than monster and literally 1/25th the price.


#4

120hz looks like ass. I hate it.

I would never buy a 120hz tv.

I prefer plasma though.

Most likely the guy was trying to get you to buy the 120hz cause it costs more. Trust me, I use to work at both Best Buy and Circuit City.


#5

go with what ever you think looks best. the LED is going to be the best overall. Don’t worry about the 60 vs 120 hz because the 120hz can be turned off. Input lag is about the same on all those models. One thing i would recccomend is to purchase the warranty as long as its not too much. thats just my opinon since i work at a best buy competitor.


#6

As far as I know, no media is actually at 120hz yet? Someone correct me if I’m wrong… I know with my parent’s TV, when I use 120hz, it is instead achieved by interpolating additional frames between the 60 frames being outputted. The result makes it look really fake, like everyone is gliding around. It’s quite similar to a home movie. I do actually like a custom setting of it for gaming. It’s by no means necessary to get a 120hz TV right now, though. This one just happened to be on sale for ridiculously cheap.


#7

Yeah your source/cables are still sending/recieving 60hz signal and the tv is displaying it at 120hz.

That’s why it looks so retarded and that’s why I hate it.

This is also why those “120hz certified 1080p Monster 24k GOLD HDMI PRO” cables are a load of shit


#8

For gaming make sure your TV has a PC mode so it can disable post processing. You’ll be fine with pretty much any HDTV that way.


#9

Funny, I just bought the Sony 52" internet ready 120hz yesterday. So far i like the big screen but I agree that the people look like their floating, was watching cheech and chongs up in smoke and the video just looked awkward. What setting should I place it at?

Also, I was playing SSF4 and I don’t think I was too excited over the way it looked, is there anyway to make it look smoother, the character select screen looks grainy, if that makes any sense… but yea, i’d appreciate any help on settings and what to do for OPTIMAl, gaming. haha thanks!


#10

120hz can matter for PC gaming as a PC can spit out over 60 fps. If you are spitting out more than 60 fps and on a 60hz TV you will get tearing unless you enable vsync which then kills the point of having over 60fps. 120fps at 120hz is a lot smoother than 60fps at 60hz.

It doesn’t mean anything outside of that or 3d though.


#11

dude werent didnt u response in the thread “gaming TV” ? correct me if I’m wrong

anyways AVSforum is a better place to ask these questions. But I did my research b4 (same boat as u r in right now) and ex400 has the least amount of input lag among the EX series


#12

Yes AVSFORUM is site to ask questions, but it doesn’t hurt to ask here too. Since everyone here plays fighting games, i wanted to see what their experience is with these type of tvs. Do you happen to have a link that’s comparing the ex series w/ input lag? From what i heard from other people ex400 is better for gaming then the ex500…I haven’t heard anything about the ex700…If you have links that would be great.


#13

you might want to read a lot of this thread before you spend 1000$ in a TV

http://shoryuken.com/f177/new-definitive-hdtv-lag-faq-174085/


#14

One note. I saw someone earlier in the thread state that you can turn off 120hz. That’s not the case, to my knowledge anyway. If the panel is designed to refresh 120 times a second, it will refresh 120 times a second. You can turn off the additional processing the TV does to smooth the picture, but you can’t turn a 120hz panel into a 60 hz panel. Now if someone who keeps up on this more than I do, knows differently feel free to correct me.


#15

i have a 120hz LED HDTV. not no top brand or nothing but its pretty good. i dont see anything wrong with it? i guess i cant really say anything bout input lag is though because i dont even know what that is


#16

That’s correct. People are confusing a 120Hz refresh rate and dejudder processing (AMP, TruMotion, MotionFlow). You can’t turn 120Hz on or off. The 120Hz TV will ALWAYS display at that refresh rate. You can disable dejudder processing and absolutely do not want it turned on for gaming since it will introduce lag.

The main benefit of 120Hz is for movies. A 120Hz TV does not have to perform 2:3 pulldown for movies. Instead, it can display 24 frames per second as 5:5. Standard 30Hz material will be 4:4, while 60Hz material will be 2:2.


#17

people mix up things about 120Hz

there are 3 ways of achieving that

A - the TV displays 120 images per second because it receives 120 from the source this is what you 'd get from a Computer. that is all good.

B - the TV displays 120 images per second even if it receives only 60 from the source. To achieve that it displays each image it gets from the source twice… that is all good as gaming goes abeit not on par with previous one.

C - the TV displays 120images per second because it calculates 1 frames by interpoling (meshing) for every pair of frames he receives from a 60Hz source and inserting that in between them.

for gaming on a TV

you want that your TV displays the picture as soon as possible after it got them from the source (input/display delay as low as possible)

you want that your TV has a clean 60/120/180/240/320/480/600 Hz refreshment with no artefacts and the pictures not blending into one another a good 60 Hz TV is better than a bad 120 Hz TV

you want to avoid 50Hz or 100Hz or 200Hz TV refresh while playing with a 60Hz source and 60 FPS game it will be asynchronous.

same goes with TV and movies when watching them (apart a few exceptions 24 fps / custom fps ) you’ll want to stick to 50/75/100/125/150/175/200 etc…(well explained in the post above)

ideally you ll want to avoid the above describe case “C” for 120Hz, tis this one responsible for all the bad rep of 120Hz but it is also the most frequent amongst TV sets,
system “C” means that you already have at least a minimum 2 frames of “input delay” since to display first frame from the source he need to mesh it with picture 1.5
and before he can do that he need to calculate image 1.5,
and before he can calculate image 1.5 it needs to have received image 2
so when you see meshed image 1 odds are the source is already feeding the TV with image 3 ( or even more)
The second problem is that depending on how well the meshing engine has been programmed sometimes things look crappier in 120Hz “overdrive” than they’d look in plain 60Hz left alone.
The third problem is that depending on how powerfull the CPU of your TV is and how well the meshing engine has been programmed the TV may need extensive amounts of time to finish the meshing calculations further increasing the already bad “input delay”

hope that ll help you choose a correct model,

hope that will help other getting their ideas straight when speaking about 120Hz.

The Best gaming monitor to date is a 180Hz CRT
Iiyama IIYAMA VISION MASTER PRO 512 22 Monitor Review - PCWorld

The best modern (flat and high contrast) gaming monitor to date is
Acer GD245HQ - DigitalVersus

as for TVs Most of the dudes that know whjat they speak about swear only by Panasonic plasma screens, that said they have drawbacks to and there are probably very good LCDs too.
I am affraid that most the TV sets you 've listed are not good gaming LCDs though.


#18

Hey toker, which tv would you recommend out the three i have listed? Im mostly leaning towards EX700 just cuz its only $50 more right now…Im curious if the input lag is noticeable…


#19

as far as i read the EX500 has around 100 ms seconds of input lag (terrible), so apparently the serie is not really tailored for gaming regardless of wether it is lit with neon or leds.

i haven’t found data on the EX700 yet.


#20
  • The good? Sony and Samsung LCD’s have the best picture quality out there among all of the LCD brands. The bad? The reason they have the best picture is that they have the MOST post processing of any LCD out there. I haven’t looked at this year’s models since I haven’t been TV shopping in over a year, but I believe that most people have tested Sony and Samsung to be around 60ms (~4 frames) with Game mode on. They’re not ideal for SF.

You’ll probably find more information and tests in the Input Lag thread, but for LCD’s >42", Sharp is one of the fastest out there. You can also look at Panasonic Plasmas and LCD’s, as they also have low input lag times. Panasonic doesn’t make LCD’s bigger than 32" though.

One more thing to note. None of the TV’s out there will accept a 120Hz source. So even if your computer can output it, the TV won’t accept it.