Mmm… strangely enough, in all my time with 3S I never bothered looking up the reversal window timing. Still, two frames is the number that pops into my head, so I’m going to say that.
Not really going to be a difference there. What you are experiencing is likely just a much more strict control scheme. Having taught numerous people 3S, some of which came from SF4, I can attest that most of them coming from newer fighters, tended to feel like they couldn’t even get hadokens consistently. This is why I do recommend anyone learning fighting games as a whole to learn execution in older games with a more strict inputs. That said though, 3S has my favorite input leniency, it’s still lenient enough, once you get used to it. No silly shortcuts, the ones that are there are useful and make sense.
To be more precise, if you are curious, I’ll quote myself from a previous post about the input shortcuts…
[details=Spoiler]Third Strike’s input leniency on supers is as you are assuming. 3S values the diagonals in a super motion more than the forwards. Your first quarter circle must consist of all three inputs, the second needs to only contain down and down forward. This is the opposite to SFIV, where it requires the second forward over the diagonal. If you do a quarter circle in that game, then stop in the diagonal, you will get a shoryuken, this is why even at high level play you see EX shoryukens come out at times. It is an obnoxious “shortcut.”
3S super buffer variants: (Assuming you are on 1P side)
236236 : Super
23623 : Super
23626 : Normal (corresponding to whatever button you pressed)
2366 : Normal or Hadoken if done very quickly
2323 : Shoryuken
2626 : Normal
26236 : Shoryuken
2623 : Shoryuken
For completion’s sake:
- Dashes eat forward inputs, so you have to do another forward to dP after a dash.
- Hitting back will negate any forward you do for a DP (This is more or less a universal rule of fighting games at this point, though I think if you do the motion fast enough, you still might get a DP, but you’d have to do it insanely fast.)
- Half circles are the same concept, the first diagonal is necessary to getting the move, the second diagonal is the end point for the motion.
I personally am a huge fan of SF3’s input leniency. I wouldn’t mind certain changes, but overall, it is a very good foundation, where you get most everything you want when you want it, with enough shortcuts to keep people from having to be completely precise. I could be biased, since I learned fighting game execution in 3S, but, in my experience, if you can do it in 3S, you can do it in any game. SFIV was the exception, because as noted above, I too was victim of DPs over supers, because of that silly input leniency on shoryukens. I would like that changed, and little else. Keep the forward requirement on supers if you want, just make sure a DP doesn’t come out in it’s stead. It is TOO much for a DP to come out after an entire quarter circle.[/details]
(I’ll note here as well, that those shortcuts are for Ryu specifically. Some shortcuts are character specific. Taking Ryu’s Joudan half circle for instance that requires the FIRST diagonal, some half circle moves require the last diagonal. More of a frame of reference.)
- Hah, absolutely yes. Pretty sure for quite a long time 3S has been touted as one of the hardest fighting games to get into because it is a game where if you are better than someone, you will win with a near 100% consistency. It is one of my favorite things about 3S, it’s a game of power levels. Rarely if ever will you lose due to some shenanigan (At least once you understand the match-ups a decent amount), you will lose because you screwed up, or your opponent outplayed you. Punishing and brutal to new players yes, but easily one of the more endearing parts of 3S, because once you get beyond someone’s skill level, you will win, without fault.
In regards to the parry system, yes, it takes quite a long time to understand the parry game. There is a surprising amount of depth to it, and learning to play around it can be difficult, especially for a SFIV player or a purebred SF player. Parries are one of the most game altering mechanics to be put in a fighter beyond the basic mechanics, which is why dedicated 3S players tend to have very different mindsets than those who come from other fighters. Think less of parries destroying footsies, and more that it enhances the thought required to participate in footsies, because that’s the actual case, despite what others tend to say. It’s a bit less simple than just judging range and priority, this is why you will see a lot of small pauses in 3S, something you don’t really see much in other fighters. This is a result of the parry game at work, small pauses in offense or defense can dodge or bait so many things, parries included. In other games, most people would think this pretty stupid except at the highest of play where respect for opponents is higher, as most people will just hit a button if you’re close to them. However, parries, and red parries mean that EVERYTHING in 3S is unsafe, which means everything must be mixed up, not even just different buttons, but when you press the button. Maybe you wait a frame this time, two the next, mixing up how you play is exactly what 3S is about. Never work within the confines of one strategy, or you’ll lose.
One of the people I taught SF3 to a bit was an SFIV player mostly, and he HATED the fact that someone could jump in at him, he would anti-air them, it would get parried, and he’d lose. He couldn’t wrap his mind around the concept of anti-airing being more complex than just hitting a button when someone jumps. Like everything else in 3S, it needs to be mixed up, and most importantly, it needs to be a risk-reduced strategy often times. So use the best anti-air that offers the least risk towards you if it fails. This is why dash unders are one of the more preferable anti-air options, as it turns their offensive option into yours-- if they hit a button, they will get hit due to trip guard. Still flawed though, as they could read the dash under and not throw a button and parry you upon landing. Ah… why is 3S so good? Everything has an answer in 3S, every moment, every frame, there is something you could be doing to change how the scenario would work out.
3S is freedom, and it’s why I love it.
Just remember, 3S requires a mindset all it’s own. I have every intention of going into SFV as an SF3 player, so I can confuse the hell out of people who play me like I did in SFIV. People tend to think 3S players impatient but it’s very much the opposite. If there is one thing you’ll learn from playing 3S: it’s respect. When we’re getting pressured, we let it play out. Do all the lows you want, all the throws, all the overheads, we’ll just block and wait, wait for the one hole in your offense, then blow you up for it. Mash you get parried.
Course – MIXUPS, always a time to mash. Gotta throw them off. Hah.
Anyways, even if I haven’t been playing 3S much in the last couple months, if you have any specific questions, by all means send me or one of the many other 3S players here a message.