A more complete explanation of the Shun Goku Satsu


#21

Yeah no they don’t. Akuma says it is your “inequities” or “sins” that kill you, not his fist. This is already addressed in the OP.

And do you know what “empty your soul” means? Again, covered in the OP…it doesn’t mean anything because it’s mistranslated gibberish. They achieved the state of Mu, they didn’t “empty their soul”. Mu is a martial arts concept…not a karmic one.

Also the only **current **proof we have of Akuma fighting Bison (there is NO canon indication that Gill was ever SGS’d) points to Bison being totally unharmed by the battle (though his clothing was damaged).

If heaven/hell have not been confirmed to exist…why would a “spiritual karma assault” exist when karma is linked to a concept of hell? That doesn’t make a lot of sense.


#22

Well, Bison was killed by Akuma at the end of SF2. At least, his body was destroyed. His scientists brought him back prior to SF4 in what seems to be not the strongest body.

youtu.be/ggHlWlh1mLg


#23

Obviously, I don’t agree with you.

And again, I don’t agree with you. And the bit about “emptying your soul” being mistranslated, mistranslated accordin’ to whom? Makes sense to me, seein’ as how WAY less powerful victims have survived the attack and the concept of Mu wasn’t even in the picture back then. I’m gonna choose **what the game actually said ** over what you think they mean, every day of the week. Your thoughts are interestin’ but I don’t actually agree with them,

I don’t need “current” proof when I’ve seen Akuma clearly use the attack to defeat both characters in the past. Again, I’m gonna go by what actually happens in the game over fan explanations that attempt to disprove what I just saw in the game.

Oh Idk, maybe Akuma uses a move where HE HIMSELF makes hell for the user’s soul. We got guys that grow six wings and resurrect form the dead, others who soul and mind generate weird purple flames, chicks who can see the future, a dude who spits fire and teleports, and ancient old dudes who can throw out spirit bombs. Let’s not mention that Akuma himself has split Ayers Rock with a punch. Him usin’ a move where his soul interacts with the users to make’em reap what they’ve sown isn’t a stretch by a long shot.

Now, if any of these events have been completely retconned by SFIV, then I wouldn’t know about that since I stopped carin’ about SF’s plot with that game’s introduction. SF just got stupid at that point. I moved on to much more interestin’ Capcom fightin’ game plots like Darkstalkers and Rival Schools.


#24

So far, Akuma killed Goutetsu, Gouken and Bison with SGS. Bison is alive as he got the new body. Gouken survived likely through his power of nothingness (I’m not exactly sure how, it’s yet to be revealed, hopefully in USF4). Anyway Akuma in his SF4 ending mentions that he senses that Gouken has awakened, therefore he expected Gouken to be alive.

As for Gen, he prevented SGS from hitting him using his technique. Akuma then noticed that Gen was ill and he left the battle because of that, so the fight formally ended without a winner.


#25

Stronger then his SF2 body but without the PD it’s probably just weaker then him without the PD (ala SFA3). Still very powerful. Probably more then a match for Ryu still.


#26

Lol Why would non christians give a fuck about heaven and hell?

Why would a karate move teleport you anywhere in the first place let alone hell. Niggas is dumb ass shit…


#27

You can disagree with me. It just means you’re wrong. You stated Gouken and Gen said this sort of thing…and they didn’t. So you were wrong. The translation for Akuma is that it is the “weight/burden of the [the targets] sins/inequities/karma” that kills them not “his fist”. IE: Don’t blame Akuma’s attack, blame your own short-comings. If you’re weak enough for Akuma to kill you yet you call yourself a warrior, it’s your own fault for being a weak ass bitch.

And again…that’s fine. You’re just wrong. The state of Mu IS factually a martial arts and spirit-body balance concept. I even cited a couple examples. Fucking Google it. It doesn’t have to do with Buddhist…it is a part of Zen Buddhism. Further more, Mu No Ken IS a martial arts concept that is pretty damn old. Again, fucking Google it. There’s a reason it pops up repeatedly in martial arts works like Hokuto No Ken, Street Fighter and Tenjo Tenge. I gave examples and explanations to back up what I said…where’s yours?

Anyone that knows fucking Japanese. They achieve a state of Mu. This is backed up by ALL recent revelations in SF4 as well where we factually see Mu in action and it has NOTHING to do with hell or the soul…it’s a Ki state. You’re just parroting what you read what time in the plot guide. Have YOU translated the original shit? I have copies of the All About Series and such…do you? Or are you just repeating what someone told you one time?

That’s because you aren’t actually thinking about stuff. You’re just regurgitating shit that’s been said for years that’s always bee wrong. I mean, shit, in SF4…Gouken defends himself with Mu against fucking RYU…how the fuck would a technique that “empties ones soul” protect from a fucking hadoken? Easy answer…it wouldn’t.

Holy shit you’re right! Just like how we SAW E Honda blow up the Psycho Drive! FUCKING CANON YO! Jesus Christ…

No one elses endings EVER reference Bison being SGS’d in SF2…and NO ONE in SF4 ever refers to it…including Bison and Akuma themselves. Yeah seems real likely THAT shit happened right? Get the fuck off it.

Akuma has done high level martial arts stuff…therefore Akuma can create pocket dimensions and teleport people there using his black magic because he’s a 19th level Wizard. Good god, are you reading the shit you write or just mashing your face against the fucking keyboard? See how you have to keep making shit up? First Akuma takes people to Hell…now Akuma MAKES hell. What next?

So in other words you’re going into an discussion armed only with out of date, mistranslated, potentially retconned or unexplained information. Nice job, bro. Doesn’t make your argument look half-assed at all. Not one little bit.

This is the sort of damage bullshit in the plot guide has done. It’s made people utterly sure of shit they’ve never really even seen with their own eyes but just heard a million damn times from a bunch of people all repeating stuff that was never right in the first place.

Blunt…but well said.


#28

It seem to be something like Devil’s man’s devil beam from DB. If that’s the case…sounds quite lame.


#29

Yes. That would be BEYOND asanine. I mean, hell, it doesn’t even make sense in regards to Gill since Gill isn’t really evil.


#30

Not necessarily evil. Just bad intentions. Like for example devil man’s devil beam would work on SSJ goku despite not being evil. His “evil intentions” however would end him…ie (being ruthless losing that caring nature) you know what I mean?


#31

I don’t think there’s a moral component to the move at all, just fancy talk from a mad warrior. Do the SGS to a puppy? Unless it somehow knows martial arts and how to block it…dead. A baby? Dead. Willy Lowman from Death of a Salesman? Dead. Afterall, NuGouken AND Gen blocked it. One’s a righteous mentor and father figure, the other is an assassin with loads of blood on his hands…which one has canonically “died” due to the move? Not the assassin.


#32
  1. You said in the OP, ***“Please keep in mind this stuff is all my interpretation and opinion”***, so now that I’m disagreein’ with you I’m “wrong”. Are fuckin’ foolin’ me bro?!

  2. Doesn’t matter who the fuck said the more you sin the harder you die, it only matters that IT WAS ACTUALLY SAID IN THE GAME. I don’t give a fuck what YOU think it means. It is what was said about the move in the game I played. You can try to attach that shit to your own philosophies but your shit aint facts.

There are endings that refute E.Honda’s. Everyone can’t beat Bison, just use some common sense when you wanna decide what’s canon and what’s not. Capcom has never actually confirmed most people’s endings or story events which I don’t understand why people get so upset and bent up over SF’s plot. You folks care more about this shit than they do.

  1. My example is, MU WAS NOT FUCKIN’ MENTIONED IN SFA3. You’re tryin’ to attach a real martial arts (and also plausible, I will admit) concept to a dude who fuckin’ splits mountains and blows up islands. IN THE GAME it was stated that the move fucks over evil people worse. I’m not gonna ignore what the game ACTUALLY said cuz what you say makes more sense. You’re not gonna get me to do that. A whole bunch of supernatural shit goes on in SF for no reason, not gonna assume the SGS is any more than what it was stated to be.

  2. You are actually thinkin’ about shit way too much. You remind me of people who try to make sense outta or philosophise the Tim and Eric Show. Gouken was stated to use Mu, okay, Gouken used Mu to survive and came back years later. Gen immediately defended against the SGS. Bison uses body hops, Gill resurrects and I’m sure Oro could probably avoid it too, there is obviously more than one way to get around it. Everyone doesn’t have to use Mu. Case solved.

  3. Bison get’s SGSed in SF2. YOU CAN FUCKIN’ SEE IT. Akuma slides up on him and he dies, in the game. Then you fight Akuma, instead. Almost nothin’ in SFII is referenced or referred to in SFIV. Hell, SFIV does very little to reference any other SF outside of itself. They don’t even say who won the SFII tournament.

6.Can you read? I never said Akuma sends people to Hell, infact, I SAID THE EXACT OPPOSITE. My exact words…

"I never believed the whole demons mobbin’ you in Hell bullshit, but I do think the move is way more supernatural than just ultra fast strikes. (paraphrasing) I do think it is some spiritual shit, tho."
You can believe in spirit and soul without believin’ in religions. Many atheist and agnostics believe people have souls. Spirit is not a synonym for afterlife, despite stupid and popular belief.

Now sit and fuckin’ spin, bro. Capcom has never said what the move actually is, only that you will pay for your sins when he does it, so I’m not gonna make some shit up and force it down people’s throats. I’ll know the true explanation of the SGS when Capcom says it and that’s if I still even care enough to know. Til’ then, if Capcom doesn’t give a damn, neither do I.

My case is rested.


#33

Akuma’s super? He just fucks you up, why does it have to be analyzed? Besides, they’ll never tell that’s the whole appeal of the move.


#34

Honestly, that’s pretty much what it is.


#35

In UMK3 Scorpion has the Shun Goku Satsu as a fatality…


#36

I always thought it was a last minute idea to give Akuma a hidden super in A1 but due to time/costs/laziness they gave it no animation and slapped together his throw and teleport animations. Didn’t think it needed it’s own lore.


#37

That’s a very good response. It should be clear that being good or evil doesn’t increase or lower your chances of surviving the SGS.


#38

SGS it no more different then countering another move. It may just be more difficult to counter then other moves. This whole time many have hyped it up so much…now I can clearly see it’s not really that much of a wicked move. Plus add in the fact that Akuma has only SGS successfully (coming back from the dead doesn’t count since they cheated the SGS)…actually what character did Akuma succeed with the SGS? I can’t recall any. Bison cheated it, Gen canceled it, and Gouken reversed it?..this mighty powerful move seems so unsuccessful from a powerful warrior. I think Akuma should look into another move.


#39

Goutetsu didn’t survive actually. It’s also stated that Akuma killed many warriors, so I guess he used SGS in some of those fights.


#40

Oh yeah I forgot about Goutetsu. “Guess” Well according to things I’ve read Akuma only really uses the SGS on “worthy” opponents. Even then The whole thing surrounding SGS makes it sound so lame. I never liked the SGS to begin with and with Yag’s good explanation of it just sounds so…bleh.