A novel idea: disassemblies/reversing/data-mining of competitive games


#1

i’ve seen this done by communities that have no competitive or monetary motive whatsoever, by enthusiasts that just have a love for their game, like smwcentral and sonic retro when it comes to rom hacking. it kind of surprises me that considering the advantages that could be gained from knowledge like this, that nobody in this community has (at least publicly) gone through with such an undertaking. imagine the possibilities… someone could take that information and write an app that would allow one to instantly test combos or option selects while considering hitboxes, pushback, special states, and other quirks etc. we could even see exactly how things like hitstun deterioration and other little understood game mechanics work. while this is by no means trivial in most cases, the results could more than justify the work. take the smash community for example… while we rag on them for things like brawl+ or project m, the major, undeniable benefit of digging into game code is that they have an absurd understanding of the engine of brawl and melee.

EDIT: also, i personally have a relatively decent knowledge of 68k assembly from my previous exploits in rom hacking. i was at one point personally motivated to disassemble kof98 and 2002 years ago, but lost motivation as the games are basically dead.


#2

I don’t think it would be a difficult undertaking for the games for which folks here have already written frame data viewers/extractors (e.g. mauve and some doujin games, jedpossum and various old fighting games). I think WAMO was a decent start to it in SF4, but it never went deeper than already-tabulated frame data (no pushback stats, for starters), which is a shame considering that SF4 is eminently hackable.


#3

Doesnt ESN and jedpossum do that?


#4

I think we are just spoiled in that traditional fighting games are designed for competitive play. Hacking is required to make Smash a playable game.


#5

Fixed that for you.

64 and Melee are just fine as they are.


#6

Shit needs to fucking happen. It’s definatly happening in 2d spirite games, but not in games like SF4/MVC3/etc.

I cannot believe that Hacker waste their power and potienal to community hacking SFXTekken’s system to find hidden gem and characters locked in the disc. They could literally rip the game apart and figure out exactly how SFXT works.

In MVC3 has a lot of random elements that should be solved at some point in time. Shit like Phoenix Wright random evidence mechanics is one of biggest mysteries of MVC3 for example.


#7

Isn’t there a Hit box viewer on the pc version of sf4?

Anyway, dammit and pasky deserve more credit than me.


#8

I don’t think the hitbox info has fully been reverse-engineered.


#9

I believe it operates on a frame timer. It’s what Wright players have said anyway. Hsien-Ko’s Anki Hou items in Marvel operate that way, with the stun item coming out on the 60th frame and the cycle resetting from there, with certain categories of items appearing in certain windows of time.

Also Felineki does some fighter hacking.


#10

the format of the hitbox data is understood but given hitbox placement is contingent on the placement of bones on the skeleton it will require someone with knowledge of rendering 3d models to make a hitbox editor

op: a significant amount of work has been done on disassembling ST, but i think people are more interested in finding stuff out or making lua tools than doing a full disassembly


#11

Yeah, I do some poking around here and there. It was actually my picking apart of SF2 and Vampire Savior’s hitbox data format that spurred the creation of that hitbox LUA script, although of course dammit deserves all of the credit for that amazing thing. If you read the articles on his blog, you can tell he put a hell of a lot of effort into it. Anyway, I did an [in-depth study of how Vampire Savior handles damage calculation]('http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11972-Vsav-Engine-Stratagems-Everyone-can-do-except-Anak-(&p=1108062&viewfull=1#post1108062’) a while back. There’s actually quite a bit of randomness involved.


#12

What is actually needed to legitimately start? Like, hack the xbox to play pirate games, so you can run your modified exe’s right?

does there exist a well built xbox environment tailored to this kind of activity that one installs?


#13

If there is a 360 or PS3 equivalent to something like TempAR on the PSP has you can do a lot.