A question about re-balance (legit) and splintering the community

#1

Ever since the announcement of 3S Online has been made, there’s been so much flaming going on over one thing: The notion of 3S getting re-balanced. Everyone is in pretty consistent agreement over the game needing to have superb netcode, a lobby system, hd filters, an extensive training mode, etc. But half the community is for a rebalance and the other half is clearly against it.

I was thinking of why it’s like this, why are so many people resistant to even the smallest changes? I don’t think you can justify it by saying that people have been playing the game for so long they don’t want to learn anything new or somesuch. Because you have to keep in mind KOF98UM and 02UM which is exactly what people want out of 3S online. Extensive trials, training, a great re-balance, we’re just missing good netcode here. People have been playing the OG 98 and 02 for years and I didn’t hear any complaints from the diehards about re-balance or Iori not being the worlds #1 rape machine anymore.

Those against a rebalance of 3S make the claim that it will splinter the community. A rebalance wouldn’t splinter the community anymore than a sequel. People still play Alpha 2 over 3, but there’s still those that like the broke-ness of 3. China still loves the fuck out of KOF 97 and Champion Edition even though there’s superior games. The point is that people play what they want. HDR did not destroy the ST community. ST is alive and well on GGPO and it’s at SBO this year.

At the end of the day the argument against a rebalance of 3S is rendered totally invalid. It’s like the David Bowie song Changes.

#2

None of the old heads want a rebalance because they claim you gotta work hard to be good at fighting games but dont wanna put in the work to relearn a balanced version of there favorite game. They just wanna own every one with yun/chun/ken so that way its just them and there two friends playing on xbl alone like they always dreamed.

#3

The idea of having both a rebalance and original mode renders the whole ‘argument’ moot. And the whole ‘dividing the community’ card is a fear monger tactic with no comparable basis in the industry.

#4

Why not include both versions in the download (not hard, just have 2 versions of each character’s framedata table)?

Arcana Heart 1 did it (both FULL and the original were on the disc), and it worked out pretty well. The community looked at the two versions, and decided which was better (they picked FULL, obviously). That version got played in tournaments, but the other one was there for anybody wanting to see what the game had been like before the balance changes…

#5

why don’t the people who want it the same play on ggpo, everyone else play new 3S?

#6

Because the convenience of booting the game on their console is optimal. That much I understand. Nobody has the right to go around telling fellow gamers where to play a game if an option could be made available.

#7

because that’s the split in the community people are talking about. that is never good.

#8

Um

HDR/ST

No comparable basis?

You need to pay more attention.

#9

Hdr sold an assload. alot more than Hyper fighting.Street fighter and not street fighter fans alike got it. I wouldnt call that a split id call that unification and growth. The only split in community is from the fans that are going to bitch and moan about every sf game but still buy them. And the new guys that dont understand to just ignore the old dogs and not take all that bark with no bite nonsense seriously.

#10

Cause ggpo 3s blows.

#11

you have NO idea what you’re talking about.

#12

Sure i do. The question is do you know what im talking about, you own HDR. You should know.

#13

while I don’t feel that 98 UM is a good example of balance, I do agree that 2K2UM is a very balanced game and what people doing “remixes” should strive to achieve when it comes to rebalancing. On top of that, being able to update the game via online helps a lot.

#14

rebalance that and slap a new name on it like 4th clash or something. It would shut half these asshats up

#15

It’s just concern over the “update” of game being worse than the original imo. If that turns out to be the result (or appears to be after the first year or so), the player-base of said game who were more or less happy with the game they’ve been playing the last decade and deem it as the better game will want to play the original competitively, while others will inevitably push for the newer version as the competitive game.

You can’t avoid this conflict/disagreement unless the update is actually good enough to make a VERY large portion of the community happy. I don’t think the older player-base trusts that the current Capcom, or whoever is working on their fighting games, has the ability to pull that off which is why they don’t want to see them try in the first place. This isn’t the first time this has been brought up either.

For the case of 3SO, I think the older players and/or players like myself believe that the resurgence in competition for the game will come from the fact that it will be more convenient and accessible just through being packaged on a next-gen console with online play. That would mean one less system to lug around to tournaments and plenty of opportunity to just turn on the console and play people online for practice. I think the newer players and/or players unhappy with 3S think a rebalance of the game is what will be needed to attract players and raise competition. I can understand this view because I know some players who aren’t happy with certain characters (i. e. the ones they “want to play”) not stacking up competition wise and/or being very difficult to win with. But I also know an equal amount, if not more 3S players who like those characters the way they are and enjoy the challenge they provide.
I personally wouldn’t be mad at a rebalance for the better, but I’m not pushing for one either because I’m perfectly happy with the original 3S and it’s still my favorite game. The only thing “bad” I see from a rebalance update with the original version to fall back on in case it doesn’t work out is a delay in that ‘convenient access’ to the game (they gotta spend more time if they work on a rebalance of sorts) and wasted time for players trying to gauge if the newer version would be more competitively sound than the older version. The amount of time that would take would REQUIRE that we try to play the game competitively for more than a year if it isn’t immediately obvious that the game is broken.

Question: Do you think if Capcom titled it 4th Clash/2nd Inning/whatever (which would imply that it would be a new game regardless), and decided to announce that it would be packaged with 3S as a bonus, that this argument over rebalancing vs not rebalancing would even take place?

#16

I think the argument wouldn’t take place . Folks complained when Sean got super nerfed in 3s and they learned to live with it. Capcom made an official statement chalked it up to the fact that Ryu and Ken were now in the game and Sean couldn’t be better than his master. I mean I would love to see Yun get a nerf like shorten his Genei Jin meter other than that Yun is not ridiculious. If they make little buffs to certain characters it would be a reason to label the game as a new title.

#17

…Shorten it? =/

#18

As in shorten the time he has to use it.

#19

Lengthen the meter by about 50%, but keep it active the same amount of time. Also maybe very slightly nerf how much his whiffed cr.mp gives him meter.

#20

Their point (not that I agree with it) isn’t about how many people bought it, it’s that HDR split the already small competitive SF2 scene in half between ST and HDR.