A Reanalysis of the Stalking Flare Incoming Unblockable

firebrand

#1

Hey guys, so I wanted to make a post about this because something big just happened in the world of Dormammu.

As most of us already know, Dormammu has a TAC infinite. Unfortunately, due to the nature of Dark Hole, the original version required you to manually and visually time your falling j.H every time. Recently, LINTlikr has come up with a new variant utilizing ADD j.L in the actual infinite repetition. Here is the video. Btw anyone who says they discovered this variant before hand is wrong. Before, everyone would try and land with their j.L or j.H after the Dark Hole. This NEWLY DISCOVERED VARIANT utilizes an ADD j.L, and it makes it EXTREMELY consistent. If you think that falling j.L is the same as ADD j.L in this combo, you are flat out wrong.

Skip to around 3:30 for the corner stuff. I’ll give you notations of how to enter it properly from each direction. You can technically do the up and side variants the exact same way midscreen. (Side note 1)

Down TAC
Variant 1 (Corner only): Down TAC, j.L, j.H xx QCB+S, j.L, j.H xx QCF+L, float down forward, j.H xx QCF+L, ADD~j.H
Variant 2: Down TAC, ADDF~j.H xx QCB+S, j.L, j.H xx QCF+L, float up back (barely), j.H xx QCF+L, falling j.H

Side TAC
Side TAC, ADDF xx QCB+S, ADD~j.H xx QCF+L, float appropriately, j.H xx QCF+L, falling j.H

Up TAC
up TAC, ADD~j.H xx QCB+S, ADDF~j.H xx QCF+L, float appropriately, j.H xx QCF+L, falling j.H

Infinite repetition
Jump up (Up back if first rep), j.L, j.H xx QCB+S, j.L, j.H xx QCF+L, (Float forward, if midscreen), j.H xx QCF+L, ADD~j.L

The important thing to note is that you have to float after your first Dark Hole in all of your starters. This may take some practice, but once you get the hang of the appropriate height you need to be to be able to j.H instantly after your Dark Hole so that it’s cancelled by your landing, this starter becomes very consistent and the infinite itself is very easy and requires no extra movement once you set it up at the right distance.

Now, I’ve only talked about Dormammu so far. Why is this in the Firebrand forums? Well, everyone knows that Firebrand/Dormammu is a good pairing. Against all but 10 characters (Side note 2), you can get your Stalking Flare DHC starting with no charges. This makes him Firebrand’s MOST DAMAGING DHC PARTNER. However, what about if you want to TAC? Most people would say run Doom second. Dormammu has a good standard TAC that builds almost a bar but you’ll probably use all of the meter you built from that TAC just to kill, since it is a Firebrand combo. So by putting Dormammu second on your Firebrand team, you are trading the damage/meter from a TAC infinite for the damage from the DHC.

This brings me to some VERY important points about Stalking Flare incoming unblockable.

  1. It requires at least one meter to set up a Stalking Flare unblockable in IDEAL conditions (Killing at the appropriate time to be able to hard tag. Otherwise, two meters).
  2. If your Stalking Flare still has the full 20 hits and your opponent takes the hit instead of blocking, it will carry them up too high for Firebrand to convert it.
  3. If the opponent takes the hit and you are able to convert, it will be extremely scaled and build minimal meter, requiring more meter to kill.

Obviously these are three big problems. Number 1 means that you need a lot of meter to do it, the proper timing, and the knowledge to recognize the situation to set it up. Number 2 means that you can’t just raw Stalking Flare and unblockable from it. Number 3 means that even though you already spent meter to set it up, you still need more meter or a TAC to kill.

Well with the discovery of this new, more consistent Dormammu TAC infinite, ALL THREE of these problems are solved. Here are the ways how, in detail. (Side note 3)

  1. Number 1 is fixed because each rep builds almost 1 bar and does about 150k. This means that, off of the worst Firebrand confirm (around 200k), you need a max of 10 reps to kill the healthiest character, but you will build 5 bars between rep number 4 and rep number 7. Basically, on a character that has enough health, you are always guaranteed to build 5 bar, meaning you can Stalking Flare, hard tag when possibly, and Stalking Flare, Luminous Body otherwise.
  2. This is fixed by this infinite as well, but it relies a lot on your own knowledge and the ability for you to recognize the situation. So lets say you start the infinite. When the enemy is low on health, you end your infinite with falling j.H instead of ADD j.L, then do Dark Matter, Dark Hole, Stalking Flare. If you did it right, your Stalking Flare should have 10-15 hits left. Why? With this many hits left, you still have enough time to charge your unblockable if they decide to block, but you also have enough time to visually confirm, end your unblockable, SJ, and j.H, Devil’s Claw if they take the hit. Mainly, this assures that they cannot escape your unblockable by taking the hit, meaning that it will be unblockable to every character except Morrigan, Phoenix, and Sentinel (w/ meter and XF. Side note 4).
  3. This is actually the least problematic of the three, but it is inherently solved by the fact that you started this unblockable from a TAC infinite. If you have five bars, you use two to Stalking Flare, Luminous Body. Convert into combo, build around .6. This means you will have around 3.5 meters (hopefully), meaning you can DHC into Dormammu (Dark Fire, Stalking Flare, build and use 1D1C, Firebrand assist extension, Chaotic Flame). And this also means that you could technically TAC back into Dormammu and loop this again to kill their third character on incoming.

Ideally, this means that Firebrand/Dormammu can (almost) always win off the first hit, assuming you get two successful TACs. While it seems like it can be risky to bank your game on two TACs, it is worth noting that this new strategy is alongside what Dormammu already offers to Firebrand. Basically, this is another (broken, but situational) tool in the bag. The only two requirements to get this set-up is that you have to “get the feel” for how to float to start the infinites, and you need to “get the feel” to know how to convert the infinite so that Stalking Flare only kills with the first 5 or so hits.

Side notes

  1. I want to thank Angelic and Apologyman for this. I told Angelic about how to properly start the infinite from up and side, and the three of us brainstormed on how to set it up more consistently.
  2. The characters that you cannot do the Stalking Flare DHC on if you don’t already have your charges are:
    Nemesis, MODOK, Dormammu, Sentinel, Tron, Zero, Arthur, Viewtiful Joe, Firebrand, Rocket Raccoon
  3. I want to thank Angelic and Apologyman again for this. As I said, we brainstormed together and while I already had the theory of this unblockable set-up, Angelic and Apologyman were the ones who worked with me and motivated me to try and perfect it (with them), and to make this guide.
  4. They need to have the meter available AND be able to pop XF. If already in XF, they cannot do anything about it.

Other notes

  1. This is easy to look over, but if you try to start this unblockable by doing your TAC infinite on Zero, remember that he explodes when he dies and the Stalking Flare will hover at his death spot. With everyone else, it will head towards the corner that they are coming in on. Basically, if you start this infinite on Zero, it is possible that your Stalking Flare will NOT be meaty on incoming.

EDIT/ Angelic mentioned recording a video that showed this set-up. Idk if/when he’ll do it, but if he does, I’ll post it here. However, we’ve already done extensive testing on this and it is definitely viable in a match


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Dormammu TAC Infinite
#2

Honestly surprised this didn’t get figured out sooner, since Dorm is relatively popular.

Good shit guys, having more options is always a good thing.


#3

Awesome work, Kresent. I actually want the infinite for Chaos Tide as I think it’s a really unexplored damage option.


#4

Thank you for giving me a reason to continue using Dorm instead of being forced to use Doom.
(yeah, I know, I should still learn Doom)


#5

oooooooouahhhhhhhhhh :mad:


#6

Guys it should be said that there is situation that can happen where you can’t get the unblockable. Sometimes you’ll be in a situation where if you do another full rep of the infinite, it’ll kill them before you can Stalking Flare, but if you try to go into Dark Matter, Dark Hole, Stalking Flare, they won’t do within the first few hits of it.

I’m trying to come up with a consistent infinite repetition that only has one Dark Hole in it and can go into falling j.H, standing f.H etc etc


#7

Looking forward to the results at FR. <3


#8

I think this improves my appraisal of FB/Dorm/Dante significantly.


#9

Angelic, Apologyman, and I have been collaborating on stream today and yesterday and we have found out some more information.

Angelic has been working around with snap backs into the unblockable. This method requires (ideally) pillar assist, but can use Dark Hole vs most characters. The idea is that you DHC to Luminous Body as they come in. You visually confirm if they take the hit or not. If they do, you sj and confirm, since you get up faster through super jumping. If they block, you call your assist and unblockable.

As savvy players have probably already noticed, killing with a Stalking Flare causes the flare to track to the dead character on the ground. Meaning characters with air options can dash away before they have to block it.

Much testing to be done still.


#10

goodteam


#11

@Kresent, you can always record this at my place this weekend if you want. I could also bring my recording setup to your house Friday after work if you like.


#12

No I can’t because Final Round is this weekend.


#13

Best of luck at FR Kresent.

The real question is, will you have this perfected by this weekend so we can see some of that Brandmamu in action?

Make it so! :smiley:

Do you know if Apologyman and Angelic will be there as well? How are they adapting to this lovely new tech?


#14

Stupid double post. Ugh


#15

I’m working on it. Up and side starters aren’t as consistent for me yet so it’d be only off down TAC but any time I get a down TAC and am fighting anchor Vergil, I will try to use this.

Angelic will be there but not Apologyman. Angelic is trying to get it down but Apology doesn’t play Dormammu so I think he is just trying to help us figure it out.


#16

Can you explain this in further detail because I was watching Angelic play his Firebrand team and when he picked that assist I actually thought he did it by accident. I wanna use Purification, so a cheap video would be great.


#17

Wow. This Is huge. I’ve alway preferred firebrand/dorm/doom over firebrand/doom/dorm because I don’t value the hard tag combos that much. That way you don’t have to sacrifice two tac attempts. Thoughts?

Also doesn’t the “float appropriately” on the up an side infinites imply they will still be really hard?


#18

Guys there is a lot more info I have for this thread but Angelic is the one who has been coming up with all of the new stuff lately, and I don’t want to steal/post his tech until he has published it himself. He has plans to do it soon, so I will eventually update this thread.


#19

Go nuts guys


#20

Seems this works with Trish too, but the setup is a bit different.

So here is what you do:

Kill the opponent in the corner
Jump forward
Peekaboo
Air Dash Down
Round Harvest

They will get hit or block the Peekaboo on incoming and you can visually confirm this while DHCing to Firebrand. Do what you need from there. You can bring them back down with kidnap and follow up with damage if you want. You even have time to hard tag with Frank, Doom, Dante, etc.

I could not hard drive out of this either.