A3: Balrog


#1

i’m trying to learn A-Balrog, after a long time playing X-Rog. he’s very different, but a lot of the tricks still apply. the things i’d miss the most about X-Rog would be his unduckable dash straight and the damage on his super. anyway, anyone got tips on A-Rog?

i’ve heard things bout his alpha counter, but i haven’t really used it all too much (the damage on it isn’t really high in the version i’m playing). the hit angle is kinda weird ain’t it? so what can i look for to hit back with this thing, say vs Sak or Akuma or Ryu?

what’s Rog’s standard BnB? c.SP xx low dash doesn’t seem to hit it consistently enough, but a lot of anything else can get him whooped even if it hits (eg jab straight). X-Rog had a knockdown on his fierce straight. it was pretty handy…

what in blazes is that other uppercut he has? db, df+K. it knocks down but it’s mad slow. with the headbutt being reversal only, does this modded dash upper have a use?

how does Rog do vs Charlie? Charles’ ground game is mad tight last i checked, and methinks hearing “sonic boom” should drive Rog to convulsions. never mind the “start with 50% end with 49.9999%” VC.

supers… anything to note about the gigaton blow? been a while since i used it but i remember that distance didn’t scale the damage on it very much (if at all). it doesn’t combo tho. what’s the best level to use his “bwahahaha… no escape” at? i’ve stuffed some wonderful things with the level 1 but i haven’t done enough testing.

and c.SK c.SK c.SK SK+FP was gold. i guess what i need w Rog is a good BnB. X had so many, i can’t find much with A…

i’ve gotta confess, if u haven’t guessed already, that i haven’t even seen Apoc’s Rog in action. anyone got a link?

edit
minor corrections


#2

Apoc and Cole are the only people I ever heard of that used Balrog competitively. From what I’ve heard it was all about pressure, pressure, pressure, get the opponent in the corner, guardcrush, super of a counterhit cr.SP, super on an air-air counterhit, TAP to get through fireballs, poke like mad, and just scare the crap out of the opponent. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’d just AC at the start of the round just to get them into the corner. You could also allow the opponent to try an attack or VC and then instantly AC or reversal headbutt on the first hit. From attacking so much you should be able to do cr. JP, cr. JP, st. JP, lvl 1 crazy buffalo heaps. If you distance the Rushing Straight properly, you can get a cr. SP counterhit as so as the opponent retaliates. Apoc also said that you can also store your charge as well.

In short, you shouldn’t let the opponent breath for an instant.

Search the google newsgroup archives for Apoc’s posts on A3 Balrog, thats the only current storehouse of info I know of, maybe theres some info on some archived SRK A3 posts as well, you can search google for that too.

Oh yeah wonder if against a jumpin you could try charge down, standing blockjump-in blocked, up+K reversal headbutt???
Just thinking out loud…


#3

hehe… i think i’ve read pretty much everything Apoc’s posted on A3 A-Rog. i might have to research CvS2 Rog to get anything.

i don’t think comboing into a reversal is possible because by i think definition the reversal must be a special. but who knows, i couldn’t prove it.

tricks i’ve heard about

  • c.FP, super. works about once or twice.
  • sit and whiff c.SP ala A2 Rose. into dash straight upon connection.
  • anti-air JP or c.SP xx TAP.
  • c.SP xx dash upper, throw. dash straight on characters who could duck the dash straight.

question.
what in hell does floating fierce do? i should’ve figured this out by ST (or HF?) i’m guessing, but looks like i didn’t…


#4

Floating fierce was the ability of Balrog and someone else in the old SF2 games, to jump straight up and change their jump trajectory slightly by pushing left and right and pressing fierce. Balrog still has it in A3 I believe


#5

can’t remember if its there in a3. rog and honda had the floating fierce in st. dunoon when it showed up.


#6

Oops! just saw this Glass. I’ll post later. It could be a refresher for me as well:) Rog ownz! Just busy now but I’ll post by tomorrow with some tips.

To start, the AC is great anti-cross-up. Changes momentum instantly and if you’re anywhere near the corner, now they are. They can’t flip it since Rog takes so long to recover from it. Slow recovery on the AC is actually a good thing in this game:)

Apoc.


#7

Muskau: yea… i knew that too, but what does it… do? also, only X-Rog has it. i think it might’ve been for getting out of fireball traps since Rog’s jump isn’t very high, but that’s only my guess. a lot of CvS2 stuff suggests this can be used this offensively in wake up games, involving ticks i think, but exactly how, i’m clueless about.

and the db, df+K type dash upper;
in ST you could use this as anti-air while still charging for the headbutt. he doesn’t have the headbutt in A3.

Rog doesn’t have a crossup does he…? @_@;;

this just came to me…
crossup on wakeup with floating fierce…? is that what it’s used for??


#8

Sorry it took so long. Here’s a quick list of Rog’s anti-airs.

st.Jab(cancel into dash upper when able)
st.strong(use early)
st. fierce(at a distance or to catch them on the way up from a distance)
cr. fierce(has two hit locations just like old school. Utilize both)
cr. strong(duck late and cancel when charged)
jp. jab(use on the way up in any jump direction)
Dash Upper
Dash Straight
lvl1 super(hold down kick and watch to see if they flip after the second hit to know how to follow up)
Airthrow.

Rog’s bnb would be jumping jab(why jumping jab? Cuz you can stick it out early, it stays out a while, has high priority, and if it hits it causes as long of a stun as any other button without the push away allowing you to attack high yet still land and combo with jabs into a rush or super.

On the ground it would be any 2in1 really(especially super if you have it). I utilize jab and strong 2in1s. Once you learn how to counter consistently the combo is pretty much decided by the distance between Rog and the opponent. If I counter with a strong from far, only a jab will fully extend that far in time to combo. If I counter from close I use strong. As a safe rule on counter combos, if they are close enough to link another attack, use jab for far range and strong for closer. Of course any level super aside from the gigaton blow will land as well. Also, from far, be 2in1ing the low dash knockdown to start a wake up game or the ducking dash upper on standing opponets. Using other dashes becomes very advanced cuz they are used to either whiff OR hit and set up a counter. It would take too long to fully explain how to choose dashes and it’s probably better to develop your own flow.

The low dash upper is used to literally duck high and come up from below with a low fierce. This move has the high and mid hitpoints the crouch fierce does so, it’s more like a rushing crouch fierce that knocks down. This move is used in anticipation to a counter that would cleanly hit your other attacks. For example, I would use this move on another using st. fierce too often as a counter or Gief using the clothesline as a counter. I’ll use the short one when facing someone with fast reflexes or the forward one to duck longer when they are very far or counter less than immediately. Kinda got feel for that one. Once you use this effectively ppl must think twice on their dash counters which then allows this move to become a counter set up. The low dashes are also good for escaping or for baiting jump ins. The low dashes recover longer but they give you some time to charge to back em up with a super.

Charlie vs. Rog is 50/50. I’d have to explain it fully but to avoid a sonic boom you jump on reaction to a sonic boom and hit jab early(as stated early). You will still be able to land and combo and then he’s knocked down and has to find a way to get you off of him. You must use discretion on ranges and learn the distance at which he can’t vc you when you jump over the fireball. Until you learn that I suggest that jump straight up or back over sonic booms and then watch so you can sock him in the face if he follows up or tries to throw another one. This match is all about timing your opponent which is what a lot of Rog’s matches are like.

Gigaton Blow blows completely through projectiles(once it’s out) and the main invincibility is in the mid. So he can counter dhalsim standing strongs and such and nail it. You have to use this with some anticipation. Other than that, I only use this to get clear to the other side of the screen to reset the match kinda like a blanka ball but if they were jumping or crossing me up I’m totally invincible. I don’t recommend this but, you can play and charge once you rethink things so, if it comes down to getting flustered for whatever reason, I’m the type to blow my super for the hell of it cuz I don’t rely on it at all to win anyway.

The best level to use super at is always the highest level except when dealing with a character with unblockables(v-Akuma) where you need an AC just to keep him from winning for free. His supers are all invincible and instant at all levels. You can reverse blocked forwards often with these they are so instant.

Cr.Fierce into super is gold. Great guard crush and you can back it up with the super on reaction. Just do the motion afterward and pause and if they move, hit the button. Or you can use it to guardcrush too. Wasting it is not bad if you have a point. I’ll waste it if I’m well enough ahead just to get them to reversal with their biggest super or vc. Why? Because now I can rush them down for free without worry of vc, super, ac. I won’t let em breathe to charge after that. But generally, in a close match, just time the motion to coincide with the recovery of the fierce and wait. The cpu will store the motion for a second so that if you see them flinch, you activate(hella personal secret tactic, heheh). If they don’t flinch, they were smart not to move but they also gave up the initiative and now you can inflict more guardcrush or confusion.

I don’t recommend whiffing without a specific timing to bait their counters. If you whiff too often they will see your rhythm instead.

cr.jab or cr.strong dash upper is a classic tick. I’ll post more sometime. But I don’t recommend using the dash straight on smaller characters. Although it still works, ranging a short dash upper from just outside throw range is more likely to draw a counter throw attempt or a trip attempt. The dash upper tick is so old(been using it for 10 years at least!) that ppl instinctively react to it if they’ve been playing sf for a while. So, you gotta use their experience against them.

I use floating fierce because, when they block it, it does the guardcrush of the fierce without the pushaway since I moved towards first. So afterward you are close enough to tick or guardcrush more than you would from a normal jumping fierce. It also combos when it connects of course. You can also use it to float early over some characters AAs. Floating back is used more to adjust your range in the air. Say you jump straight up over a sonic boom and charlie follows it in. Floating back is a good option against some of his. This moves takes getting used to to make effective. Of course it’s great for going over projectiles without committing to moving forward too much to avoid it. It’s a tricky move.

Muskau:I’ve never had a friend to try that with but I doubt it. Standing 2in1s work from a cancel. You can’t standing block and cancel the blockstun at all so you’d lose your charge.

I think that’s everything asked so far:D

Apoc.


#9

jeezus


#10

Apoc: Yeah I spose the blockstun wouldn’t end until the opponent landed unless it was a shallow hit or light hit jump-in. Perhaps you could you it against Dhalsim and reversal headbutt his fireball to counterhit is limbs coming at you afterwards?

I’m just wondering ways you could use it now its a reversal only…


#11

Heheh, yeah. I actually posted using the reversal headbutt against Sim years ago. You can do it after ANY blocked or HIT(ppl forget that) attack and of course, when waking up. It’s a great wake up against a lot of things since no one EVER expects you to get it out so they don’t play as if you have a real reversal. Against an airblock it’s still usually safe. Charlie is also a good character to use it against if he’s trying to follow booms. Sodom, etc. Still, it’s only effective when used with discretion. It’s an advanced tactic that has it’s moments but not many.

I occassionally use it against ticks. I’d have to say that’s it’s most practical use overall. Block a short, reversal headbutt. This works because every other move of Rog’s would be thrown if he remains there(almost), even his specials. You’d be surprised how less risky this is than a wake up dp because of this. The opponent feels much more safe ticking Rog since he has no reversal…or so they forget.

Apoc.


#12

Any chance of a list of matches that particularly favour Rog, or matches that are bad for him? CHeers


#13

RESSURERECTION :V

Anyway is there any other way to land the gigaton other than j.hp, c.hp, gigaton?


#14

lol the way i used to write just 5 years ago makes me sad.

never thanked Apoc for that gigaton post. thank you, Apoc, for the gigaton post.


#15

what happened to apoc?


#16

Any chance for tips on how to deal with V-Cody?