A3 Birdie Help

Anyone have any basic rundown of A3 Birdie? General strategies, etc? Here is what I have noticed, compared to A2 Birdie:

TAH and Head Rush are both less safe if blocked. Head Rush appears to be unsafe at any range, whereas in A2 it was safe at least in some circumstances. A3 Head Rush just does not bounce back far enough.

360’s have less range. The extended 360 doesn’t seem to make any difference.

Stand fierce has better speed, better vertical and horizontal range.

Stand strong does not have the horrible recovery it did in A2, and seems to hit a lot of ducking moves better. Is interruptable. (Don’t remember if it is in A2)

Jumping forward kick is better air to air than A2.

New stand rh moves forward a bit. (But has crap range)

Low forward kick has different animation, not sure if it is actually any better. Maybe a bit faster?

Fierce splash seems to have better priority?

Anything else? Anyone decent with birdie that can share any tips?

Stuff you need to know:

  • his standard combo is jumping Roundhouse-> crouching Strong-> Jab Bull Head (charge b,t+punch), or if you’re playing in V-ism, jumping Roundhouse-> crouching Fierce (2 hits)-> Jab Bull Head; for V-Birdie, counter hit crouching Fierce (2 hits) Bull Horn / Fierce Bull Head is also possible - works well in corner crouch cancels
  • the Bull Horn (hold two kick or 2 punch buttons) is great as anti-air, usually scoring all hits of the move
  • level 2 and above Bull Horns are safer than the level 1 versions when blocked;
    ideally though, you want to use strength 3 and above Bull Horns because they can’t be punished – or are very difficult to – when blocked
  • his Level 1 The Birdie is safe when blocked but requires good timing in order to utilize its limited invincibility; also sets up guessing game when blocked: a command throw or another The Birdie. A similar situation can occur with a blocked Bull Horn, where you can Super or VC your opponent’s attempt to counter
  • his Level 2 The Birdie is invincible during the first Bull Head and can pass fireballs easily. However, it leaves Birdie very vulnerable when blocked – so vulnerable that if he’s hit while recovering, it will be a counter
  • the Level 3 The Birdie version is safe when blocked
  • crouching Forward has great range and his crouching Strong can counter pokes once fully animated; key-word: pre-empt
  • towards+Roundhouse is decent anti-air when they’re right above you; think corner counter hit, they perform a defensive recovery (b+2 punches), the t+Roundhouse will nail them. Also useful as an anti-cross-up
  • standing Fierce is a very good poke (if not his best) and also doubles as an anti-air
  • A-ism and X-ism Birdie can cancel the second hit of their crouching Fierce into a Super. V-Birdie can cancel the both hits of the crouching Fierce into a special
  • his jumping Forward is great for air-to-air, and against air recovering opponents. If you score a counter hit, crouch cancel into a jumping Roundhouse-> standing Strong, or land into a Bull Head
  • a nice trick when waking up: an opponent may go for a deep jump-in attack, so go for a standing Jab – which hits before their attack fully animates and is okay as anti-air – and quickly jump and hit them with Forward before they air recover
  • his standing Roundhouse misses against smaller characters (a good thing). Jumping Roundhouse (blocked) -> crouching Jab (blocked) -> whiffed standing Roundhouse -> command throw/Super or VC if they flinch can be effective. Don’t be predictable with this
  • his jumping Short is good because, like Karin’s and Rose’s, it can hit opponents before they’re able to pull off their anti-air. Also great to hit (or have it blocked) with this and land into a Jab Murderer Chain or a Short Bandit Chain
  • regarding his command throws: the greater the strength, the smaller the range; command throw ranges: light - 48 dots; medium - 44 dots; heavy - 40 dots. Ryu’s throw range is 32 dots, and Zangief’s normal Fierce SPD range is 60 dots, for comparison
  • when ticking, try to always use the weak version of the command throw due to its superior range and because they have quicker whiff animations than their stronger counterparts
  • his regular punch throw has the smallest range of all throws in a3 (8 dots), but leaves you in a very good position to punish the opponent once it’s done, e.g anti-air VC starting with his standing Jab, or The Birdie or even the Bull Revenger
  • his standing Strong will hit larger characters such as Zangief and Sodom when crouching
  • his standing Short is a perfect counter for Guy’s crouching Roundhouse.
  • his jumping body splash is a good cross-up
  • the Bull Revenger can still be used as anti air if it’s the Level 3 version; or if the opponent attacks from the air, any Level will work. Can also be applied to air recoveries. One such situation is, mid-screen Bandit Chain-> opponent recovers-> Bull Revenger. The move is still somewhat useful against Dhalsim’s long ranged pokes
  • The Birdie can hit Blanka after a blocked Rolling Attack
  • Birdie’s standing Roundhouse is great against Balrog’s dashing moves, where you’ll cleanly counter him and the follow-up pokes he makes after having his
    dashing moves blocked. Also great to cleanly counter V-Ryu’s b+Roundhouse; Sakura’s far standing Roundhouse, and Balrog’s (the boxer) standing Fierce
  • thanks to the strange grab-area of his air throw, you can use it against E.Honda’s Killer Head Ram. The Bull Horn also cleanly counters this move
  • you’ll find some Birdie VCs in the VCs Reborn thread

Super-ego, ninja-edit :confused:

he has a cc infinite with j. roundhouse (building up 50% meter and reactivation), although its tight timing but ccing his j. rh after vism will net you at least 30-40% meter.

really how do you do it cuz i been play the bird for a long time he’s top tie in my book i’ve beat lots of vism players with him put sometime it’s so hard so now i think i going to use the vism so i can beat on arturo’s bitch ass

I play Birdie the most basic of ways possible, esp. since I tend to use him in X-Ism. :slight_smile: Basically, I play a guessing game with Jumping Short. I try to get in with Jumping Short, and when I land, I immediately do Crouch Fierce. Crouch Fierce has really good close-up Priority. If the enemy tries anything, and the Crouch Fierce hits twice (esp. on Counter Hit), I cancel the second hit into his Level 3 Super, which will connect for all hits. Once the enemy starts to block, I use 360. So I mix between the two.

Of course, the trick is getting in in the first place. :slight_smile: But most of the strats posted by MiddleKick cover the other basics. TAH is a good anti-air (can even beat 'Gief’s Splash outright if timed right… do it early so you swing into the enemy while they are still in the air).

But most of what MiddleKick said is right. I jsut wanted to add my super-ghetto Birdie guessing game. :stuck_out_tongue:

  • James

there is no help with Birdie. Dan can murder this punk

Birdie’s win poses are better. And the tumbs up “HEEYYY” taunt beats all of Dan’s. Birdie > 4th wall

Middlekick covered it all, pretty much.

Crouching Strong is slower than it looks, and crouching Fierce is faster, as both he and jchensor alluded to. You should wait until Strong fully extends to use it, whereas the crouching Fierce is a bit faster than it looks…both moves actually start hitting at the same speed, but I’m sure the crouching Fierce has better hitboxes.

Crouching Fierce is pretty decent for anti-air, though not quite as good as the Bull Horn (hold 2P or 2K). You can actually cancel to the Bull Head (charge back, towards+P) if it lands on a Counter Hit, and use the Fierce version to make it whiff. You get a free crossup splash, since they can’t air-recover, as your’e still recovering from the move until they hit the ground. Crossup splash can of course be followed by a combo, or throw/super games.

Speaking of the Bull Head, it’s OK for building meter. It’s not safe if blocked, but it knocks down, and actually links off of a non-Counter-Hit jab. Whiffed, it gets you six dots of super meter (9 for V/X-ISM), and if it hits you get 9 altogether (13 fo V/X). By comparison, a connected Strong/Fierce DP with Ryu will get you 7 dots (12 X/V), and Rose’s Jab Soul Reflect gets 16 (23 V/X) vs projectiles. Because the Bull Head causes a knockdown, you can land one, and then whiff another one for a good amount of meter.

The 360 throws: both have the same range, though Murderer Chain (360+p) does a bit more damage. Bandit Chain (360+k) throws people behind you, so it’s better to use that one if your back is to the corner. Bandit Chain gives people a chance to air recover, so you can make them land on a standing Fierce, Bull Horn, etc. If they don’t flip, you can jump after them and do crouch cancel games, or juggle them anyway (which will give them another opportunity to flip). I don’t recall if you can damage reduce the last hit of the Bandit Chain, though I’d assume so. Both command thows build crazy meter if you connect with them, the Murderer Chain slightly more than Rose’s Jab Soul Reflect. Builds the most meter of any special in the game? (nevermind, tied with Gief’s SPD and close 360+k)

X-Birdie has a move the other Birdie’s don’t- after a close standing Fierce, hold up and hit Fierce again, and Birdie will do a little hop and do his jumping Fierce (called the Bad Hammer, if anyone cares). Mostly useless, as Birdie’s close standing Fierce is just short of worthless except in V-ISM, where he can do it on command, and thus start it early vs jumping attacks.

Jumping Forward is good air-to-air, and Roundhouse is really good too…it doesn’t hit at as high of an angle, but it beats a hell of a lot of attacks, and does more damage/dizzy. Jumping Fierce seems pretty good air-to-air too. Crouch cancel combo for all -ISMs: Counter Hit Jumping Roundhouse, cc Jumping Roundhouse, crouching Fierce (1 hit for A/X-Birdie), cancel to Bull Horn (release 2P/2K)…you sorta have to be holding 2P or 2K before you start the combo, but I find myself doing that a lot anyway. Crouching Fierce (1 hit) does the same stun as the Strongs, but does a bit less damage. I don’t think the Strongs will juggle them high enough for the Bull Horn to connect, however. If you can charge backwards quickly enough, using the Bull Head instead will net you more meter, and will also do more stun if you don’t have the Bull Horn charged for 3 or more hits (it does a bit less damage, however). You can also end the combo with the close standing Fierce into Bad Hammer for X-Birdie, though you have to be closer to them than the c.Fierce xx Bull Horn requires. Does a bit less damage than comboing to the specials, but does more stun than all but combos to level 4/5 Bull Horn. I think all of these combos except for the ones that end with the Bull Head leave the opponent with the ability to air recover afterwards (I think… I can’t remember about the Bull Horn, but I think so. They can certainly do so after anything ending with a normal attack), meaning you can hit them if they do/don’t. Most characters get dizzy after taking 40 poitns of stun damage, jumping RKx2, c.FP (one hit) xx level 5 Bull Horn does 35 points.

It should be noted that in Alpha 3, after you air recover, you can be crouch canceled/juggled, and won’t go into the auto-recover state as you normally would if hit out of the air with a non-Counter-Hit. For example, Birdie can throw someone in the corner (PP), and if they air recover afterwards, he can hit them with a standing Strong, and they’ll just fall to the ground (already having used up their chance to air recover, since you only get one while cornered), or do c.SP xx Bull Head, and it will juggle. Or, Birdie can throw someone into the corner with the Bandit Chain (360+K), and if they air recover and can’t/don’t block, jump after them with a jumping Forward, and crouch cancel afterwards. Or, Bandit Chain into the corner, they don’t air recover, crouching Fierce, THEN they air recover, and have to worry about landing on something. Simple guessing game.

Crouching Fierce is good anti-air as noted above, IIRC close standing Fierce is OK too, though only V-Birdie gets to use it. Far standing Fierce is pretty good too, as anyone who’s played against CPU Birdie has found out. I saw some YouTube vid not too long ago of a V-Birdie (who I’m going to assume is Middlekick, based on the fact that it was V-Bidie) using what I think was a crouhing Strong to beat Akuma out of his divekick…? Or was it standing Strong? Jab? I forget. If you smell a jump coming, you can always meet someone in the air with a jumping Roundhouse, if it lands on a counter hit you can cc into another one (or jump and activate V-ISM), or do more stuff in the corner. Bull Horn is good, as Middlekick and jchensor said…

In case anyone couldn’t figure it out, the Bull Horn (hold/release 2P/2K) is invulnerable high. He can still be hit low, however, but sweeps and deep jumping attacks, low Tiger Shots, etc. You can actually use this in footsie games, vs people who don’t use sweeps. For example, if someone is playing V-Sak and hammering on b+FP or standing RK, you can Bull Horn through them, sorta like Cody’s dodge, only it will hit. If they start going for sweeps or low attacks, you can jump at them with the splash etc if you see it coming. Holding Jab+Strong or Short+Forward for the Bull Horn will make you travel a shorter distance than holding Strong+Fierce or Forward+Roundhouse or 3P or 3K. The shorter version is better, AFAIK. Holding 2K seems to be better, as standing Roundhouse and the punches have actual uses. I personally end up holding Jab and Strong, however, since it’s a pain in the ass to hold 2K like that for long perids of time. You do want to be aware of when you’re holding the buttons down, however, as you might get an unexpected opportunity for a combo and find yourself doing jumping Roundhouse, blocked Bull Horn, when you meant to do j.RK, c.SP xxx Bull Head, but forgot to repease 2P in the air.

On the ground, I’m not sure what’s good. I’ll try standing Roundhouse some more next time I play as Birdie…crouching Strong seemed a bit slow, so I pretty much just stuck to crouching Fierce and far standing Fierce vs other attacks, and far standing Fierce as a poke. Other than that, it’s just random moves, since I don’t know what’s good. Jab is good because it can combo to Jab Bull Horn and is a bit quicker than the crouching Strong, but I don’t know if standing/crouching Short is better. Crouching Jab has bettter recovery time, so I assume it’s better for ticks. I guess I should give early crouching Strong another shot, though playing Rose has spoiled me.

The Birdie (charge b, f, b, f+P) at level 2(?)/3 is good as anti-air, though it sucks at it unless characters are low to the ground. It IS possible for someone to mash out of their stun before the last 2 hits of the Level 3/X-ISM version. Or, at least, the CPU can do it. I use X-Birdie a lot more than A, so I’m mostly speaking of the X/L3 version.

As a general note, if you don’t trust the sticks/buttons…I play A3 mainly on one of those Ultracade machines (though my Saturn copy of A3 just hit my post office yesterday, yay), you might want to get used to sweeping the buttons. Helps get 360 throws out more consistently, reversal supers (particularly with X) etc. The Birdie is a good reversal, for example…so if you want it to come out ASAP, do the motion for the super and drum your fingers across all 3 punch buttons quickly- I actually sweep across the buttons, but whatever. Releasing a bunch button will activate a super/special move just like hitting it will, so you actually get 6 button inputs in quick succession. If someone whiffs a Shoryuken or something, you can walk up and do the same with one of the 360 throws, if you don’t trust your excecution and/or the sticks/buttons.

Good to see A3 threads from the Other Games forum aren’t getting locked and dissapearing into oblivion.