Abel v2012 Matchup Chart

abel

#1

Alright, I’m creating a match-up chart that is based purely on my opinion and experience with the game so far, so these thoughts and numbers can change significantly as time goes by and as the game gets explored further.

That’s why I’m creating a new thread for this, so I can modify numbers as I see fit. Again, these are based on my own opinions, so they might not match what your thoughts are on the match.

Please feel free to discuss the match-ups and provide your own charts for the sake of discussion.

Format is going to be Abel vs X character, so Abel’s # value would be placed first.

Akuma: 4-6
Adon: 4-6
Balrog: 6-4
Blanka: 6-4
C.Viper: 5-5
Cammy: 4-6
Chun-Li: 4.5-5.5
Cody: 5.5-4.5
Dan: 5-5
DeeJay: 6-4
Dhalsim: 6.5-3.5
Dudley: 5.5-4.5
Honda: 4.5-5.5
Hakan: 6-4
El Fuete: 6-4
Evil Ryu: 6-4
Fei Long: 4-6
Gen 6-4
Gouken: 6-4
Guile: 6-4
Guy: 6-4
Ibuki: 5-5
Juri: 5-5
Ken: 5-5
Bison: 5-5
Makoto: 5-5
Oni: 6-4
Rose: 5-5
Rufus: 4.5-5.5 (closer to 5-5)
Ryu: 5-5
Sagat: 6-4
Sakura: 5-5
Seth: 6-4 (or 5-5, this matchup will change as Seth is explored further)
T.Hawk: 5-5
Vega: 6-4
Yang: 5-5
Yun: 5-5
Zangief: 4-6
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Overall, Abel ends with +10 on his match-ups, pretty damn good if you ask me.[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]


#2

What do you find is the difference between E.Ryu (favorable) and Ryu (even) as far as the matchup goes?


#3

Simple answer: Ryu has good footsies, E.Ryu does not (at least not vs Abel)

Abel can just simply hover outside cr.mk range and pester both of them with st.lk, but this works so much better against E.Ryu than it does Ryu. Ryu’s cr.mk is actually REALLY viable in this version, it’s an actual threat and completely controls that range, while E.Ryu’s is not. Abel can just stomp his way through with st.lk and there isn’t a poke in E.Ryu’s arsenal that can stop this, he has to take it like a man. Not only that, since E.Ryu’s low pokes are a lot slower, Abel has little reason to not dash up TT. E.Ryu does do better than Ryu when he’s in, but because he doesn’t have a fast sweep or a reliable way to score a hard knockdown, it’s going to be tough to break through Abel’s surprisingly good defense.

Not to mention that E.Ryu has no health and Abel does a shit-ton of damage, both of those things don’t really mix well…


#4

I can’t say I disagree with the assessment however E.Ryu can defend TT pressure with his hop kick. It acts in the same manner as Cody’s hop kick - unthrowable and causes reset state for E.Ryu from pokes. (ie:st fierce)


#5

That maybe so, but Abel doesn’t really need step kick pressure to be a problem for E.Ryu (actually, he doesn’t really need step kick to be a problem for the other shotos either), he can just comfortably sit outside of E.Ryu’s poke range and abuse st.lk, which actually opens up other shit, like dash up TT.

This match-up is bad…Abel naturally does well vs shotos, and E.Ryu doesn’t have the Akuma vortex that kills Abel. For Abel, he’s just another shoto with slower pokes.


#6

Cody = 5.5
Balrog = 6-4
Balrog and easier match up than Cody?** How so? Why?**

Rufus only 4.5, a weaker bad match up? huh? :wonder:

Why are Bison and Viper both 5-5? :wtf:
T hawk and the Twins are all 5-5? :looney:

I agree with the other 80% <3


#7

Cody has real escapes to Step-Kick pressure, Balrog doesn’t. Cody can lk.ruffian to go air-borne and beat most of your options, you actually have to respect it. Cody also does as much damage as Abel and his pressure game is damn good. He also has a 3-frame normal, btw.

Balrog match was already easy in Super, it just got easier with his st.lp nerf, and he still doesn’t have a good answer to step-kick pressure.

I used to think that this match was one of Abel’s worse, but ever since the discovery of OS tech, shit got so much better. Rufus HAS to respect OS tech, and he can blow it up with CH setups, but that just opens up your escape options (ex. anything).

He also has a hard time dealing with Abel’s wake-up game, since it’s so much harder to auto-turn ex.messiah than it is a dp. He definitely isn’t as hard Abel’s TRUE hard match-ups (Akuma, Adon, Cammy, Gief). He still wins, but not significantly.

Yeah, they are even matches IMO. You have an answer to most of their tools, + you deal a fuckton of damage. You just have to play them a bit different than others and need the right tech (Even though I list Bison as even, he is my personal worst match-up, but I lose this because of me, not the character)

Yeah, they don’t beat Abel in this game (Hawk might have a slight advantage). There is a lot of tech against the twins discovered already, and every tool that made these characters a nightmare for Abel has been considerably nefed (dive kicks, command throw, normals, other nuances). I personally don’t have any major problems with them, even against great players.


#8

T.Hawk and Sakura feel like 5.5-4.5 to me, but that’s nitpicking.

Why do you think Seth could go down to 5-5? Abel is probably Seth’s worst match-up (if not his worst, it’s one of his worse). Shit dive kick, f+mk rapes Seth, and Seth doesn’t keep Abel out as well as Abel can get in. I mean, Abel could get some bad reads, but the Seth player has to be on point to beat Abel’s damage.


#9

As a Gen player I wonder why you think Abel has the advantage… I usually don’t have problems against Abel players and the reason is that he has no really good wake-up options… so, when I manage to score a knock-down, well, I can attack rather safely…
But maybe I don’t know the character so well :slight_smile:


#10

think of it this way… what if abel scores a knockdown? gen is pretty much doomed unless you wanna take risk and do reversal…

gens backdash is ass and can easily be punished with abels f.mk into a lot of hurt + another knockdown

i believe its in abels favor since abel can get in easier and gives gen a harder time(plus more health and more damage too) be it after a f.mk dash or after scoring a knockdown

abel can anti air gen’s pretty easy too

what else, yeah, the health + damage potential/mixups favors abel

not saying the matchup is super easy or anything, a capable gen can still mess abel up but character wise, abel wins.


#11

Cody’s hopkick is considered grounded and is therefore throwable


#12

Errr… I understand your points but let me say Gen’s backdash is one of the best in the game… I guess you’re confusing it :slight_smile: regarding anti-air, yes, Abel’s air to air is damn strong, but otherwise (if Abel stays on the ground) it has to eat Gen’s ambiguous two cross-up.
Besides, Gen can out-footsie Abel anytime. The real problem is if Abel manages to get in.


#13

Gen’s backdash is 19 frames, regardless of stance. That’s relatively slow, particularly when we compare it to some of the best backdashes in the game (like Chun’s, who is 15 frames; shotos are also faster, albeit a little bit). As far as distance, Gen’s backdash is slightly above average. Below average speed+above average distance=a roughly average backdash.

Gen’s backdash is easily beat by things like cr.lk OS cr.hk, meaty cr.lp OS U2, or just f+mk. It’s not a horrible backdash, but it’s not Chun’s backdash.


#14

Abel blows Gen up, there is no argument there. If you say that Gen dominates Abel in footsies then that is a clear sign that you’ve never played against a competent Abel, ever. Abel’s footsies are part of the reason on why he blows Gen up. Gen can’t get in, and all of his buttons are easily punished on reaction with step kick and Gen has no clear answer to st.lk abuse. Not to mention that Abel kills Gen when he gets a knockdown like no other.

Also, LOL at Abel having no anti-air when he’s grounded vs Gen. Again, signs point to you never having played a decent Abel.


#15

well, after seeing your OP, I thought this could be a decent and constructive conversation :slight_smile: instead it turns to be a noobish one.
First, according to your first post: you said Abel-Gen is 6-4. Now you say Abel “blows Gen up”. Lol. From slight advantage we already reach the steamrolling level? Ok ok…
Second, it’s more likely you never played against a good Gen. Gen is a footsie oriented/okizeme character. Gen footsies are better than Abel’s, check the frame datas and hitboxes. Simply Gen can zone Abel. As I said, the problem is IF Abel
manages to get in, a bit like Zangief (of course Abel has more tools to do it).
Do not feel butthurt, I was just trying to understand more the match-up :slight_smile:

This is what I meant with constructive conversation… I used to think f+mk couldn’t get Gen’s backdash… I’m pretty sure I avoided it a few times with a backdash. Maybe the f+mk has to be timed rather precisely? Mmmmhh… I’ll go testing, thanks :wink:


#16

Lol I guess amiyu doesn’t count as a good gen… : /

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#17

Alright, that’s my bad actually, I kinda got a pretentious vibe of your post, if it wasn’t meant then I apologize.
But a couple things you did post about the match-up do give away the fact that you aren’t really experienced vs good Abel players though. Also, 6-4 for me is a blow up, it means you’re character straight up loses the match, it’s not a “slightly difficult” match, no, it means that your character has obvious weaknesses that can and will be exploited in the match-up. Just want to clarify that.

OK, now you are sounding pretentious. I suppose Jeb isn’t a good Gen player, huh? I suppose Amiyu is just some scrub, huh? I’m not speaking out of my ass when I post, this is from actual experience from actual GOOD players, not from XBL or theory fighting (like how the experience coming from you is sounding like)

The fact that you are saying that Gen outfootsies Abel because of frame data and hitboxes is just plain ridiculous, now we are moving into theory fighting. Are you taking into account recovery time? You do know that all of Gen’s buttons stay out on screen for a long-ass time and are extremely easy to whiff punish, right? You also know that Abel’s reward off a hit-confirm is a million times better than a hit-confirm from Gen, right? From this type of theory fighting, we can assume that Chun and Makoto RAPE every character in footsies, since their normals are crazy good, and Fei/Seth are just mediocre since their normals aren’t all that hot compared to other characters… You failed here, you failed HARD. Please get actual Abel experience before trying to dissect the match-up with theories, not only that, but also discrediting other thoughts on the match-up from players who have ACTUAL experience as wrong.

From your logic, Abel vs Rose/Chun/Ryu should be 10-0, since they clearly have better frames and hitboxes on their normals…Please do a little research before sounding like you don’t know a thing about what you are talking about.

I’ll start a constructive conversation when you have something constructive to say about the match-up, instead of “he has better normals”…


#18

His special not his command normal. The one that hops before he slides.

[media=youtube]fa06vTMZtq8[/media]


#19

Ooooook, probably we began in the wrong way, I take back anything that might have sound pretentious. :slight_smile: Let’s begin again, ok? :wink: I’ll try to be more specific and constructive for both characters.
Ah, just before that, it’s “Yeb”, not “Jeb”… and I rather often chat with Amiyu (with my broken Japanese, but he’s a really kind and patient guy, lol. And, at least while chatting with me, he never included Abel in any bad match-up list for Gen, also Rokotsu didn’t).

I don’t think I’m a good player at all, I’m pretty seasoned, I get my win streaks but I guess it just depends on the day, my mood and so on, but I guess I can only begin with my personal experience with the match-up: When I face Abel players, what I have to do for most of the time is being extra careful and defensive, poking with cr. mp or st. mk (which combo into hp hands, always safe on block, and from there, eventually, if I have meter, I can combo into super-ultra or fadc). After that, IF Abel tries to play footsies, I know that I’ve a range advantage (this is what I meant before), a faster walk-speed in both stances and wider dashes.
Also st. mp is awesome against Abel (and other characters with no 3 frames attacks or powerful reversals, but it works very well especially with the hitbox of Abel).
I usually do lose if I do something wrong, if I take a wrong guess and let Abel in. At that point I have to chunk a lot of damage, lol. I also HATE the Wheel Kick!
Anyway I see this situation as against Zangief… a couple of mistakes and my poor granny is done. But still, some good Gen players think Gen has advantage over Zangief (because of its more limited mobility and footsies).
Regarding Gen moves’ recovery time… I agree if you talk about Crane ones. High risk/high damage. But Mantis? I’d say their recovery times are just like other characters’…

I hope this is constructive.


#20

I threw this picture together really quick, so cr.mk’s hitbox is a bit faint (albeit visible).

Spoiler

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6248/abelaa.png

That’s four moves overlapped: MP Falling Sky, cr.mk, cl.hp, and cr.hp. These moves are Abel’s typical anti-airs, but he has a few other options such as s.mp and U2. Notice how it’s literally a wall of red in front of Abel. If you flipped him over, cl.hp would also cover cross-ups. Abel has an extremely solid anti-air game, and he can catch also every angle jump with hit normals that either special cancel into a roll (and thus a mix-up) or combo hard (such as cr.hp, U1).

Abel struggles against dive kick characters (old twins, old cammy, Rufus) mainly because of the speed of some of his AA options (cr.hp in particular), the priority of dive kicks, and that his cr.hp OS tech isn’t as good as a shoto’s cr.mp OS tech. Beyond this, Abel’s anti-air options are extremely good.