Abel vs T.Hawk…
T hawk has better normals than Gief, so this is a much heavier footsie oriented match, practice up!.. Footsies, footsies, footsies!!!
To begin, let’s start to his horrible/awesome roundhouse. It has huge range and a massive 20 frames of whiff recovery.:wow:
Because of it’s massive recovery it’s fairly easy to whiff punish however because of its long range if Abel’s step kick connects against his roundhouse toward the tip, Abel will be too far away after his dash cancel to combo into fierce.
So, if this happens just go into standard, “Post Step Kick Mix-Ups”.
If you’re uncomfortable with trying to whiff punish roundhouse with step kick in fear of this spacing crap and then being forced to go into a mix up afterwards which might screw you over, there are other safer options. :tup:
**Try Using Cr. MK? **Haven’t tested this out myself yet but the angle should be perfect for this and the range from MP COD should be far enough to connect.
Focus attack is a FANTASTIC substitute! Get a feeling as to which situations make T.Hawk want to throw out their roundhouse!(after an air reset, after a whiffed wheel kick, after a roll). If you see the roundhouse connect during the focus attack, Abel can dash in and **always get a full BnB punish! **or a Tornado throw at the very least.
In terms of footsies, there really isn’t anything substantial to mention in regards to his other normals.
First off, this problem of connecting fierce after a step kick against a whiffed roundhouse isn’t present to other normals, **the problem is unique to T.Hawk’s Roundhouse. **So if you land it against this other normals Abel can always get a FULL BnB.:china:
Of his set of normals, I think the primary ones to focus on are his st. Fierce and his Low mk.
Since it has good range and its pretty quick it should be a normal used pretty commonly. Treat it like Ryu’s. Beat it clean with st lk… or if you can, step kick it for the damage.
Pretty quick, respectable range, and does 120! damage:wtf:
Simply figure out its range, try and get a feeling as to when T.Hawk wants to throw it out and do your best to whiff punish it! It has more recovery than it looks… Punish that SHITTTT.
Last but not least his sweep! A faster version of Guile’s double sweep!
Punishable on block with St lk, Thawk’s sweep is one of the most annoying sweeps ever! Especially since it’s coming from a character like T.Hawk that can molest people after a hard knockdown. I always forget about the 2nd sweep and it ends up scoring more knock downs than it should.
Like guile’s, there’s a gap of frames between the two kicks giving Abel a window of opportunity for attack, however the gap is much smaller than Guile’s therefore much harder to punish.
Want to play it safe? After blocking the first one, simply mash on EX Tornado throw. If you’re feeling like an OG, you can focus through the 2nd kick and then dash forward for a full combo… So free. :tup: Reactions Reactions Reactions! :china:
First on the list is Condor Dive and Condor Spire.
This move has NO priority at all, it’s FREEEEEEEE on block… It’s not an overhead and EVEN IF IT HITS! T.Hawk lands full screen. This move is super high risk… and meh reward. :sad:/:bluu:. Risk/Reward
One thing to take note however is that Hawk can do his dive during** ANY** point in his jump ark, so just like dive kicks, it can get tricky trying to anti air from the ground.
However,since it has pathetic priority and loses to the lightest of normals,
I choose to meet T.Hawk Half-way the air by just jumping in his face and punching him! That’s my way of dealing with his dives! Stop them before they happen!
“New Abel Player”: But I’m more of a defensive player and my reactions aren’t very fast so what else can I do about Condor Dives?:wonder:
If you don’t like the idea of reacting to hawk’s dives by take him head-on, then simply block and punish! If you sit there and block however you’ll be subject to his empty jump SPD mix-up! so it’s better if you Practice up!
If you block his dive it’s a free Souless! :wow:
If you don’t have ultra, keep in mind that you can ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS, no matter the spacing, punish it with, “Dash Forward xx Tornado throw”! However I believe spacing is such that Fierce will most of the time, whiff… adjust accordingly!:tup:
If Hawk spaces it poorly and lands closer, it’s a free BnB!
All of them in general have bad hitboxes and can be stuffed with mp or can be thrown on reaction with an ex falling sky.
The normal ones are really bad for a lot of different reasons. Abel can focus adsorb punish and can block punish them if spaced poorly… he can hit punish them if they’re spaced SUPER POORLY…
the real gimmick to watch out for is a jab spire whiff into ultra/spd…
Imagine if blanka had a command grab he could use right after whiffing a light ball just short of Abel’s toes… Yep, that’s what we’re dealing with here.
Try and sniff it out as best you can and react accordingly… This shit is gimmicky as fuuuuck!
EX SPIRE, this is the one worth worrying about.:badboy:
It’s faster than the others, he can legitimately combo into it , it goes through plasma (no t that this is important, just stating a facts :)) it breaks armor… it gives Hawk FAAAT frame advantage on block if its spaced at all and gives him perfect spacing opportunity to start his offense on hit.:sad:
When do hawks throw this out? From my experience it has been after a series of pokes once they’ve knocked you to far away to continue pressure. If you can predict it, punish it accordingly with St. Mp or Ex Falling Sky. If Hawk lands it on block he is at a significant frame advantage and I’m afraid no full proof option to escape his pressure, from my knowledge.
Back dash? Hawk can pepper you with jabs pressure or OS a sweep like everyone else…
Command grab? he can jump and then punish HARD >.<
Jump? Jabs beat it… and he’s got plenty of anti-air options… DPs hurt (160 damage :wtf:)
EX Command Grab? He can counter with SPD or ultra!
Of course Hawk can guess wrong as well so one could look at this situation optimistically, however it’s a guessing game and with a character like Abel who gets BONED by getting knocked down, it’s a situation i’d like to all together avoid as much as possible.
T.Hawk without meter = Zangief without Lariat…
yeah… he doesn’t have a wake up game at all… From my experience when T.hawk is in this situation they’ll try and back dash in hopes of SPDing a whiffed TT.
Either cr jab os sweep… or cr jab into delayed step kick to beat this…
But aside from this… T.Hawk does seem to have an answer of anykind to anything Abel decides to throw out… If you know him down and he’s got no meter… GO NUTS!!!
If he’s got meter it’s a different story… EX is immune during it’s start up therefore it’s immune to meaties. DONT" GET HIT BY THIS… not many people know this (Even T.Hawk Players) but his EX dp does 300 STUN! Getting hit by that… putting up with his offense and eating maybe 1 combo into one tick throw could turn out to be a stun…
Anyway… While it’s something you don’t want to get hit by… it’s definitely something you want to bait out. Once Hawk throws it out… from my experience, 9 times out of 10 Hawk will tag an ex dive to make it safe… Burning meter like crazy.
So in summary… If he doesn’t have meter… think of him like a Gief without lariot… or a vega without a flip throw… keeping in mind the desperate backdash attempt.
If he’s got meter… respect the wake up EX DP! especially when he’s got several bars since he’ll burn more bars for a follow up ex dive.
Along with his good normals… Abel’s wake up game is what makes this match so difficult.:annoy:
At this point in the game… everybody knows that Abel’s rolls can be grabbed, therefore against a T.Hawk that uses option-selects against wake up ex roll, Abel only remaining option is to wake up, block and try to put up with everything hawk decides to throw out.
The bullshit in his offense revolves around his LP SPD… The spacing gives Hawk the perfect set-up for a ambiguous cross up! But… HOLD IT! Hawk’s mixup isn’t exclusively side-side 50/50. Hawk can empty jump or whiff a down-forward mp** into SPD**… These gimmicky set-ups are very fast and I’m afraid there doesn’t to be much Abel can to do other than looking out for it and reacting accordingly. :shake:
Now, back to his ambiguous body splash. After blocking it, things can get very annoying. His cr.lk and close mp are 0 on block, making them perfect tick SPD normals.
So what should I do? Just mash on back dash?:wonder:
Back dash is kinda crappy but unfortunately, it still seems to be one of Abel’s safer options. Between peppered jabs… ex spire, and os roundhouse, back dash punishes might actually be one of Hawk’s main source of damage!
This is where I’m at a loss… Blocking too long is suicide and Hawk can punish escape attempts pretty well. To my knowledge there isn’t any sure fire solution to escape from Hawk’s offense consistently… Just do your best to guess right I suppose?
Wow I came in here so excited to see that “defense” tab thinking “maybe this will provide some tips to help me avoid being 100% blown up on wakeup by t hawk”
instead I find that my struggle is not a unique one lol
I always wonder how good ex CoD is for abel, I am far from a “top player” but it seems like it can bail you out of some wakeup situations :3
the information given was from ME and my personal experience alone… and from that I haven’t found any great answers for T.hawk bull!
if YOU or anybody find something out and decides to contribute… maybe that, “Defence” toggle will contain that golden answer to Abel’s troubles in this match…
try out everything and report back here if you find anything interesting…
so far all I got is “introduce real life distractions”
Didn’t face good THawks but if his wakeup OS are anything like Gief’s meaty OS (hit/block = continue pressure, roll = spd) then try learning armor cancel ex roll. It’s probably the easiest armor cancel. You will force his OS to act as if he connected while you roll to safety.
It can be easily adjusted to though so don’t overdo it.
From my experience, most T.Hawks aren’t very patient players. They will Condor Spire (horizontal special) or empty jumps when you’re at full screen to close the distance. Once they are closer they will tend to throw out his normals (cr.mk / st.hk / sweep most of the time), go for another Condor Spire, or jump in. Jump ins will very for the most part. Some will try to empty into 360 grab. Others will spam Condor Dive.
Once he’s in, that’s when it gets fun to play. T.Hawks thrive on poor play. I’m usually of a mind set of just blocking. Most T.Hawks will expect you to try to get out. I say fuck it. Stay patient and see what he does. Don’t try to dash or jump or even use a reversal. You’ll have opportunities to get away from him or use normals to get him off.
In my opinion, this is a match that Abel has to play defensively and not give anything. You could get randomed out in a couple matches, but I’ve never lost a set to a T.Hawk.
lk wheel kick
cr.mk OS CoD
Yeah i treat thawk like a retarded cousin of gief. While in neutral position just be patient and footsie with stand short, cr mk, sweep, etc as if you are playing a gief. But if dude tries to do horizontal dive thing, just press cr jab, if you block dive, you can punish on blk with CoD.
Once you get kd, unlike gief, go nuts. his wakeup is free if you are on point with TTs and safe jumps(his ex grab probably beats saf jump, but safe jmping a guy that wants to mash ex dp thing wrecks the dude).
Only thing you probably should do different is to punish the dive with dash TT and EX FS his horizontal dive on reaction.
T. Hawk’s don’t usually give me a hard time. T. Hawk has an okay wake-up game. He’s gonna be scared of you if you pressure Hawk a lot. So, the idea,is to pressure Hawk, but being alert at the same time. Watching the opponents habits in the wake-up game is essential. Look out for his DP and wake up empty jump Ultras. Otherwise, keep him on the ground with the tick throw TT set ups until he starts to run away. Having your opponent scared will put them in situations where they doing things out of desperation. It can be dangerous if you managed to get grabbed or get knocked down by a sweep, but his TT will beat the all of his throws and the EX COD will blow through his good normals, which have a lot of recovery fames. When dealing with the Condor Dive, if you have good prediction, you can throw out an early anti-air like a good timed cr. HP or cr. MK or roll to get to the other side and getting you some space to rethink your strategy. Analyzing your opponent and watching your opponent will definitely help and although T. Hawk can be a problem for Abel, because he’s a grappler as well, it’s not the worst match-up for him