About D.Violet and Ms. Victoria


#1

They should count as one character, seeing as how they are technically the same person.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I assumed it would just be a stance thing, having Ms.(Mrs. ?) Victoria being a rush-down type  with martial arts and Violet being a keep away type with her whip.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Ms. Victoria/D. Violet is one of the few character I look forward to being (possibly)DLC and I think fans of the character would be happier if they were one instead of two.</div><div> <br></div><div><br></div><div>What are your opinions?</div>


#2

That’s still two characters worth of work and money<br>


#3

Isn’t Squigly a stance character anyway? It’s not like it’s impossible for them to do it or to even consider it.<div><br></div><div>And the stance doesn’t have to effect any more than normals, doesn’t have to be and shouldn’t be a completely different set of moves and specials.</div>


#4

Squigly is stances that charge up moves and then branch into other moves, not stances that change movesets.


#5

I get what you’re saying but I don’t get what you’re saying.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>How about Victoria’s specials have her turn into D. Violet momentarily?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I don’t know I just think it’s weird to have them be separate.</div>


#6

<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>I think I remember hearing Ms. Victoria isn’t aware of her transformations.  That would be the reason.</span></font><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Any way I am fine with having two characters with different move-sets.  Its not like the team would just make Violet a stronger but nearly identical character.  They haven’t been that boring yet, at least.</span></font></div>


#7

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/55286/Kavitee">Kavitee</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>That’s still two characters worth of work and money<br></div>
</blockquote> 

Not necessarily. I see her being done one of two ways<br>1. Each get unique normals(not much different from having each normal having a command normal variant) and walking animations. Getting hit reverts her into Victoria if she’s D. Violet (Dominatrices like to hit not be hit). She gets 1 or 3 specials ( “transform” is the only necessary special; if there’s time/money then each gets one unique special). 3 supers: one unique super per form and a shared lvl 3<br>2. She’s usually D.violet and turns into Ms.Victoria only for her intro, her back walk (dominatrices dont retreat), certain specials, and when getting hit.<br><br>I also have a third Idea but it’s horrible: she D.violet until she takes too much damage. She then turns into Ms victoria. All she can do is block or command block. Command block is essentially “all-guard” but she takes more chip than usual. After a time she can turn back into D.Violet and can immediately act (functions like a short range pbgc)<br><br>EDIT: 4th idea<br>It’s like my first idea, except she doesnt change into Victoria when hit, Let her take up two spots on a team. Give each a unique life bar, but remove or lessen the ability to regain red health (“transform” should be usable in comboes; i.e. really fast and probably safe unless you make it an actual attack/chain ender)<br><br>


#8

I like the first and second ideas.


#9

One thing I was thinking about would be to make them both separate characters as normal. However, they act differently if you make a 2 person team of only Victoria and Violet.<br><br>In that situation you get these modifiers:<br>1) Their tag ins are altered. They no longer jump in and attack like a regular tag, instead they instantly transform between each other. This transformation deals no damage can be done mid combo.<br>2) They lose DHCs and Assists. <br>3) Possibly have them share a life bar.<br><br>This effectively turns them into a stance character, while leaving them as separately selectable characters. This would also make them as financially viable as any other character. <br>Memory limits might cause problems here though as it’d be pretty difficult to combo while one of your characters is all 8-bitty.<br>


#10

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/81236/Cellsai">Cellsai</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>One thing I was thinking about would be to make them both separate characters as normal. However, they act differently if you make a 2 person team of only Victoria and Violet.<br><br>In that situation you get these modifiers:<br>1) Their tag ins are altered. They no longer jump in and attack like a regular tag, instead they instantly transform between each other. This transformation deals no damage can be done mid combo.<br>2) They lose DHCs and Assists. <br>3) Possibly have them share a life bar.<br><br>This effectively turns them into a stance character, while leaving them as separately selectable characters. This would also make them as financially viable as any other character. <br>Memory limits might cause problems here though as it’d be pretty difficult to combo while one of your characters is all 8-bitty.<br></div>
</blockquote>

So they’d be like Sasori from the ultimate Ninja games.<br>


#11

Too. Many. Frames.<div><br></div><div>If the game had 1200-1500 frames of animation for a character WITHOUT moveset-changing stances, imagine ONE stance that generates six different normals in the ground or air.  NOOOOOO let’s not.  Consider that even having her as an install super would double the number of animations, and thus the frame count.  For example, ever wonder why Painwheel’s Hatred Install only has her flash, and neither of the moves actually change (only the move properties do)?  Because holy shit if they had actually done different attacks and moves for that super we would’ve gotten the game last summer.</div><div><br></div><div>As much as I wish Mrs. Victoria and D. Violet were the same character with stances, it makes more sense to have her transform into D. Violet ONLY for a level 3.</div>


#12

I was hoping she would be similar to ABA from Guilty Gear but as mentioned previously that would be equal to two characters worth of work and not feasible in this stage of development. 


#13

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/28284/guitalex2007">guitalex2007</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Too. Many. Frames.<div><br></div><div>If the game had 1200-1500 frames of animation for a character WITHOUT moveset-changing stances, imagine ONE stance that generates six different normals in the ground or air.  NOOOOOO let’s not.  Consider that even having her as an install super would double the number of animations, and thus the frame count.  For example, ever wonder why Painwheel’s Hatred Install only has her flash, and neither of the moves actually change (only the move properties do)?  Because holy shit if they had actually done different attacks and moves for that super we would’ve gotten the game last summer.</div><div><br></div><div>As much as I wish Mrs. Victoria and D. Violet were the same character with stances, it makes more sense to have her transform into D. Violet ONLY for a level 3.</div></div>
</blockquote>

Squigly already has several stances that change normal attacks. So essentially, if Squigly ends up with12+ stance normals + her other specials, then  a Ms. Victoria/D. violet combo doesnt seem too far off in difficulty, considering that in my scenario she only needs one special -transform; however I will admit that it may end up costing a bit more for that, though not drasticly much more. I can see the price for animations going up between 10-25k.<br>


#14

She could also have stances like Squigly, instead of like Gen.


#15

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/6107/Killey">Killey</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>I was hoping she would be similar to ABA from Guilty Gear <br></div>
</blockquote>

This is also what I wanted.<br>


#16

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/28284/guitalex2007">guitalex2007</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Too. Many. Frames.<br></div>
</blockquote>

This is why I suggested making them two different, stand alone characters. Make Mrs. Victoria first and release her as a playable character. Next make and release Deep Violet and release her, except include the code that modifies them when you select both characters at the same time. <br><br>You release two separate characters who function independently from each other, except can combine to become a Gen style stance character if you only pick the two of them on a team.<br>


#17

<span style=“font-style: normal;”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/26180/Dravidian">Dravidian</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/28284/guitalex2007">guitalex2007</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Too. Many. Frames.<div><br></div><div>If the game had 1200-1500 frames of animation for a character WITHOUT moveset-changing stances, imagine ONE stance that generates six different normals in the ground or air.  NOOOOOO let’s not.  Consider that even having her as an install super would double the number of animations, and thus the frame count.  For example, ever wonder why Painwheel’s Hatred Install only has her flash, and neither of the moves actually change (only the move properties do)?  Because holy shit if they had actually done different attacks and moves for that super we would’ve gotten the game last summer.</div><div><br></div><div>As much as I wish Mrs. Victoria and D. Violet were the same character with stances, it makes more sense to have her transform into D. Violet ONLY for a level 3.</div></div>
</blockquote>

Squigly already has several stances that change normal attacks. So essentially, if Squigly ends up with12+ stance normals + her other specials, then  a Ms. Victoria/D. violet combo doesnt seem too far off in difficulty, considering that in my scenario she only needs one special -transform; however I will admit that it may end up costing a bit more for that, though not drasticly much more. I can see the price for animations going up between 10-25k.<br></div>
</blockquote>

This is just not true. If they make D. Violet a Gen-type stance character that means they have to re-animate each stance for </span><i>everything she does</i>. Hit-stun, block-stun, idle frames, specials, normals, jumping frames, tag-in and tag-outs, everything. It’s not like a SF4 engine where they can make a character model then just slap on a new costume and animate some new moves. In other words, it will cost exactly as much as two characters to make D.Violet/Victoria a single person. Not that I wouldn’t love to see it happen, but it won’t any time soon.


#18

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/46044/Dude">Dude</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><span style=“font-style: normal;”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/26180/Dravidian">Dravidian</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/28284/guitalex2007">guitalex2007</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Too. Many. Frames.<div><br></div><div>If the game had 1200-1500 frames of animation for a character WITHOUT moveset-changing stances, imagine ONE stance that generates six different normals in the ground or air.  NOOOOOO let’s not.  Consider that even having her as an install super would double the number of animations, and thus the frame count.  For example, ever wonder why Painwheel’s Hatred Install only has her flash, and neither of the moves actually change (only the move properties do)?  Because holy shit if they had actually done different attacks and moves for that super we would’ve gotten the game last summer.</div><div><br></div><div>As much as I wish Mrs. Victoria and D. Violet were the same character with stances, it makes more sense to have her transform into D. Violet ONLY for a level 3.</div></div>
</blockquote>

Squigly already has several stances that change normal attacks. So essentially, if Squigly ends up with12+ stance normals + her other specials, then  a Ms. Victoria/D. violet combo doesnt seem too far off in difficulty, considering that in my scenario she only needs one special -transform; however I will admit that it may end up costing a bit more for that, though not drasticly much more. I can see the price for animations going up between 10-25k.<br></div>
</blockquote>

This is just not true. If they make D. Violet a Gen-type stance character that means they have to re-animate each stance for </span><i>everything she does</i>. Hit-stun, block-stun, idle frames, specials, normals, jumping frames, tag-in and tag-outs, everything. It’s not like a SF4 engine where they can make a character model then just slap on a new costume and animate some new moves. In other words, it will cost exactly as much as two characters to make D.Violet/Victoria a single person. Not that I wouldn’t love to see it happen, but it won’t any time soon.</div>
</blockquote>

Again, in that specific scenario where she can switch between personae I explained that she’d have a<i> single</i> special move. All other moves aside from 3 supers would be normals, which is less animation compared to two full characters with multiple unique supers(3 each) and specials(3+). And I could have sworn I covered pricing. [look sup] Yup I did. <br><br>

<br> and from indiegogo<br>

[quote]
<br><span class=“notranslate”><span><strong>$30,000</strong>: Animation and Clean-up Contracting</span></span><br>[\quote]<br><br>The way I explained that scenario they’d be putting two <i>incomplete</i> characters together. A character with half a special and 1.5 supers will not cost the same as a complete character. Even so I went as far as saying that the two could at a stretch cost almost double (30,000+25,000) that of a completed character depending on how they’re designed (turning into Ms Victoria while blocking or getting hit would bring the cost down). If anything maybe I misused the word “drastically.”<br>


#19

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote”><div class=“QuoteText”><span style=“font-style: normal;”><blockquote class=“Quote”><div class=“QuoteAuthor”><br></div></blockquote></span></div>
</blockquote>

Again, in that specific scenario where she can switch between personae I explained that she’d have a<i> single</i> special move. All other moves aside from 3 supers would be normals, which is less animation compared to two full characters with multiple unique supers(3 each) and specials(3+). And I could have sworn I covered pricing. [look sup] Yup I did. <br><br>

<br> and from indiegogo<br>

[quote]
<br><span class=“notranslate”><span><strong>$30,000</strong>: Animation and Clean-up Contracting</span></span><br>[\quote]<br><br>The way I explained that scenario they’d be putting two <i>incomplete</i> characters together. A character with half a special and 1.5 supers will not cost the same as a complete character. Even so I went as far as saying that the two could at a stretch cost almost double (30,000+25,000) that of a completed character depending on how they’re designed (turning into Ms Victoria while blocking or getting hit would bring the cost down). If anything maybe I misused the word “drastically.”<br></div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div>

It doesn’t matter if she only has 3 total supers, they still have to animate idle, push-block, normals, hit/block stun, tag-ins/outs. Additionally, the animation and clean-up contracting aren’t the only costs for making the character. There’s also the cost of paying the staff for making two times as many normals, balance testing, and hit-box contracting (again, twice as many as 1 character). You might save a little bit of time and money by having her hit-stun revert to Victoria and your other ideas, but those would also seem sloppy/lazy, and the extra normals are really gonna be where most of the money is sunk anyway. I think the point still stands that a single Violet/Victoria character is basically equal to creating two separate characters, and probably won’t happen until they get funding from a real publisher again. The one thing we do agree on is that you misused the word drastically, so there’s that :P<div><br></div><div>Edit: This quoting system sucks donkey balls</div><div><br></div>


#20

The spoiler system is even worse.