Accepting TIPS? Marth can give you one, but it's gonna hurt - Marth Thread


#1

Discuss any strategies or observations about Smash’s returning Fire Emblem lord, Marth.

My observations after playing him for a bit:
-Overall attack range decreased
-Throw range decreased
-Shield breaker is a stab instead of an overhead slash
-Dancing Blade combo is much faster, all the knockback is dealt on the 4th hit
-U-smash has a larger horizontal hitbox and deals pretty good knockback.
-D-air still spikes but is more difficult to combo into.


#2

I can’t forward B to get back onto the stage horizontally anymore dammit

I loved that shit


#3

You can still use it to slow your descent, but it doesn’t move you forward by that much anymore. I’m going to have to say that the Dancing Blade change is my favorite so far. Making it even faster is great and now we get to use the 4th input more often.


#4

The Dancing Blade in Brawl is godlike. So versatile and punishes rushdown hard. As for his recovery, it’s actally about the same (or possibly better) because Dolphin Slash rises so much higher and can actually move Marth forward in a similar manner to Roy’s old Blazer. So if you get smacked up high, just airdodge to brake Marth then fully charge a Shield Breaker (which gives effing awesome horizontal movement fully charged in the air) and if you’re low just use your second jump then Dolphin Slash below the ledge.

All in all, I love this version of Marth. He plays effectively on the ground now, which is how I prefer to use him most of the time.


#5

Yes, his ground game is much improved.

Ok, time for some patented Emblem Lord strats.

Let me talk about Marth’s Fair first. Comes out on frame 5. Quite fast and has good priority since Marth uses a sword. Marth can do two in one SH. Marth has alot of tricks with his SH Fair. Marth can DI back while fairing for spacing and to camp. So SH Fair DI back then Fair again while falling. Also Marth recovers very quickly from his fair so he can do other things as well like SH Fair to Dancing Blade if you want to be aggressive. He can be very tricky and defensive by doing SH Fair to airdodge. Then when you land you can do whatever you want. I would usually go with Dancing Blade, Dolphin Slash or just roll away. A SH Fair on the way down can lead to a free Dancing Blade at low percents.

Dancing Blade is ridiculous now. Comes out on frame 4. Yeah, you read that correctly. Frame 4. Stupid fast. It’s a natural combo. The standard Forward BBBB combo is the most reliable. Does 16% damage. As much as Ike’s AAA combo. Another decent one is Forward BBB Down B. This ends it with the multi stabs. That combo is about 22%. But it can be DIed out of, especially at higher percents. So for the most part stick to the standard BBBB string.

Marth’s D-tilt is still amazing. On hit it can lead to another d-tilt, a D-smash, or Dancing Blade. This thing has IASA frames on it. And using it in rapid succession moves Marth forward, so it makes a good poking/pressure tool. And thanks to the IASA frames it’s virtually impossible to punish even if someone perfect shields it. If it’s shielded just roll away or spot dodge to avoid retaliation. This thing is amazing. And with this and Marth’s Dancing Blade His ground game is awesome, but he ahs a few other things that make his ground game ridiculous as well.

Marth’s U-smash is awesome now. A non tipper hit has a suction effect that brings an opponent upwards right into Marth’s sword. It’s pretty cool. All of Marth’s smashes are great actually. Running U-smash is a good way to get a surprise kill in and catch your oppponent off guard.

Marth’s Dolphin Slash is nuts. Activates on frame 1 and it invincible for the first 5 frames. SHORYUKEN!!! The recovery time isn’t long at all when he lands and it has decent killing power.

Speaking of killing power, Marth has the most kill options out of everyone in the entire game.

He can kill with:

Tippered F-smash around 80%
Non-tippered F-smash around 140%

Tippered U-smash around 115%
Non-Tippered U-Smash around 125%

Tippered D-smash around 105%
Non-Tippered D-smash around 125%

Tippered Uair around 120%
Non-Tippered Uair around 165%

Tippered Fair around 140%
Non-Tippered Fair around 190%

Tippered Dair…it’s a fucking spike. So…I’m guessing it can kill at relatively low percents.
Non-Tippered Dair around 190%, but this is an educated guess.

Tippered Bair around 135%
Non-Tippered Bair around 190%

Tippered F-tilt around 155%
Non-Tippered Fair…Very high. Didn’t kill at 190%, so it’s not worth mentioning.

Tippered U-tilt around 125%
Non-Tippered U-tilt around 135%

Tippered Nair around 130%
Non-Tippered Nair…not worth mentioning. Very high percent.

Dolphin Slash around 140%

Dancing Blade now has tipper and non tipper hits unlike Melee. Tipper hits do more knockback. So final tipper hits of the dancing blade can kill aroun 115% Non-tipper hits kill around 150%-160%.

So looking at this we can see that once an opponent hits about 80 percent they are in the danger zone. Marth can kill alot sooner then 99% of the cast. The key is just to have good spacing so you hit with the tip of the sword. But spacing is a basic component of a good Marth so dedicated Marth players shouldn’t have any trouble getting those early kills. Only Luigi with his own Shoryuken beats him out with early kills, since that can kill around 50%. But Marth can gimp recoveries better than he can. Also be aware that Marth’s aerials will kill sooner then the percentages I listed since he will usually use them to gimp recoveries which means they will be closer to the edges of the screen, so there will be less distance to cover before dying. My percentages were tested on Mario on Final Destination with him at the center of the stage.

Also here are some random tips.

Gimp recoveries with Marth plz. Just run off and Fair or Bair them. At the very least it will harass them. If they are low on the screen and they airdodge then they are as good as dead.

If they are high then they will most likely air dodge, but you will recover quickly and then you can still attempt to hit them. Make sure to DI back as you are fairing, so you have a better chance of hitting them when they come out of their airdodge.

A nice little spacing trick is to do a quick dash to forward B. So if someone dashes at you, just dash back from the spot you were in. They will attack air then you can use Dancing Blade to score some good easy damage. Dash to Dancing Blade is one of my staple strats. It’s very solid. Combining Marth’s quick mobility with one of his best moves for a great offensive/defensive/space controlling tactic.

Marth’s grabs aren’t too crazy although Marth can do F-throw to F-smash at 0 if they don’t DI. F-throw and D-throw are the throws of choice. Switch between them to mess with DI. At lower percents you may be able to follow-up with another grab or a Dancing Blade combo.

Now I’ll list some basic combos.

D-tilt to D-tilt: Does about 18%. Works from about 0% to 40%.

Non-tippered Fair to Dancing Blade: Does about 28% to 33% depending on the DB combo you decide to do. Works from about 0% to 20%.

D-tilt to D-smash: Does about 26%. You have to be very close when you hit with the d-tilt and cancel ASAP into the D-smash. Works from 0% to 40%.

Non-tippered Fair to F-smash: Does about 24%. 29% if the F-smash is a tipper. You have to be close and this only works at very low percents. 0% to 15%.
Tippered Uair to U-tilt: Does about 22% Works from 0% to 15%.

Tippered Uair to F-smash: Non-tippered F-smash will do 27% Tippered F-smash will do 32%. Works from 0% to 15%.

Tippered Uair to U-smash: Does about 30%. Works from 0% to 15%.

Dancing Blade: BEST COMBO FOR MARTH!!! Most reliable. Works at any percent. Does 16% to 23% depending on how you end it and what attacks you use.

D-tilt to Dancing Blade: Does about 28% to 33%. Somewhat more reliable then the others since it works from about 0% to around 40%

D-tilt to Grab: Not a real combo. Just a damn good mix-up tool to use when D-tilt no longer combos. Use this to make them fear shielding after a d-tilt on hit then you can do a Dancing Blade after a d-tilt on hit and it no longer combos or run into U-smash.

Ok, that pretty much wraps it up.

Also the IASA frames on Marth’s D-tilt is when he pulls his arm back. Once he does that you cancel into anything.


#6

Nice strats Emblemlord. Brawl Marth is still pretty beastly. I’ll get my chance to finally play some 1v1 Brawl matches this weekend so hopefully I can provide some insight. Are there any reliable ways to combo into his spike or repeated f-airs? I noticed that tippered f-smash causes a lot of hitstop now. I don’t know if it makes a difference or not but it may give the opponent more time to DI correctly. Because back in Melee, you went flying the instant the tipper hit you.


#7

DI really doesn’t affect the tipper at kill percents.

Too much knockback.

You can’t string fairs.

Don’t try. You will only get frustrated.


#8

Dancing Blade into the upwards slash can combo into an aerial at low %s or Dolphin Slash at higher %s.


#9

It’s about time you got in here, Emblem Lord. You’re probably the authority here when it comes to Marth. :rofl:

Couple of my other observations:

-Shield Breaker seems to outprioritize Quick Draw, I was playing a lot of one-on-ones against my friend’s Ike and whenever he did it as I did SB, he’d get stabbed in the face. Speaking of SB, what does it kill at fully charged? I’m finding myself breaking shields with it often now, so I wanted to know if that or the Forward Smash is the way to go.

-Dolphin Slash out of shield is effing epic. In Brawl there’s not a whole lot people can do against it.

-Counter is way good if you’re fighting someone with power like Snake, Ike or D3. Finally being able to smack someone clear out of the ring Roy-style is great.

-Up Smash is actually useful, yay. Since they get pulled upward into the stab it actually has a purpose on the ground now.


#10

A dash canceled Up Smash is actually very useful, esp. on characters who can only die quickly from vertical kills.


#11

Okay, one major thing to add about Marth’s FS: it CAN be cancelled. Hit A or B again during the FS and he’ll slash and stop.

Eat that Smashboards! Well, I like SB most of the time, but idiots kept saying “lulz marth’s FS is suicide” so I’m glad to prove them wrong. :lol:


#12

Edgeguarding with marth is just as retarded as ever, but he seems significantly nerfed to me.


#13

LOL@significant nerf.

Go take a look at Captain Falcon then get back to me.


#14

His range has suffered a bit but overall, but he REALLY got off easy with the nerf bat compared to the rest of the upper echelons of Melee.

Also, what are some good strategies against Metaknight? He seems to be giving me a lot of trouble because that stupid side+B seems to beat out so many attacks. And his range is comparable to Marth’s but his swings seem faster.


#15

Shield metaknights broken B moves.

As also Shieldbreaker stuffs anything he has.

Try it. It works wonders. It may seem like Metaknight has a ton of comboability, but…he doesn’t. Combos are easily dodged out of. So in terms of raw damage output Marth and Metaknight are pretty much equal. You just have to make sure that you don’t let him overtake you and rush you down all day otherwise the damage adds up.

Dancing Blade allows Marth to equal Metaknight’s speed and his ground game is superior to Metaknight’s. In term’s of who is the better punisher, they are pretty equal. Marth has the faster f-smash, but slower recovery time. His D-smash is just as fast, but his recovery time is slower, yet again. Marth has a slower U-smash and slower recovery time.

Marth wins in raw power though. He can kill Meta at 80% and very consistently. Both have very good rushdown. But Metaknight is a bit better in the air, thanks to his multi slash attacks. If you go air to air then it’s about timing and spacing, since he can spam fairs a bit more then you can.

The match-up is pretty close IMO. But since Marth can kill a bit sooner so I’ll give him slight advantage.


#16

hey im a smash noob and started playing brawl recently and decided to play marth
i know a bit of the smash notations already ,fsmash,utilt etc…
but what is FH, DI,IASA ??
Also tipperred is to hit with the tip i presume??
another thing i need some marth strats on how to get in vs projectile characters like pit dedede and space animals. especially pit
thanks:looney:


#17

FH I believe is Full Hop/Jump, fully pressing X/Y/Up to get a jump

DI: Directional Influence, it’s a way to guide where a shot takes you after getting hit or in the air. It influences your trajectory.

IASA: Interruptible As Soon As. If a move has IASA frames, that means it can be canceled into almost anything else as soon as those frames occur.


#18

thanks kmd
what about SH ?? short hop i guess
so when emblem lord says SH into fair then DI its shorthop/small jump then Fair and move the character with DI?? when i do it the opponent just blocks then i die:looney:


#19

No you don’t. Since you DIed back, how can they hit you?


#20

my bad i wasnt DIng:looney:
SH Fair DI is a pretty solid tactic can the rest of the cast do it??
is it a big part of marths game? i would guess so.
lastly is it a good way of getting in vs projectile characters ??