Added Doom Theory: Assist Focus

dr-doom

#1

Although I’ve yet to make a believe out of some on why Doom should only be played on point i will still now add on to my mission objective. Assuming we all begin to understand what I’m saying the next step is to know what assist maximize Doom’s potential.

Although i like to lean more towards a rush down oriented Doom he is proficient in both rush down and keep away. Now before i start i will briefly define keep away and rush down because it seems most people on SRK do not understand the meanings.

Rush Down: A Strategy in which the main goal is to eliminate space in between you and your opponent. By applying constant pressure the general goal is to limit your opponents time to think and stop your approach which remaining as safe as possible.

Keep Away: Another Strategy in which the main goal is to keep as much distance from your opponent as possible. Because of the nature of this strategy it is important to use safe moves that will still do damage whether it be chip or on hit it doesn’t matter the damage is still done. As long as the opposing character stay at a safe distance the strat will be successful.

*Note: Before i go into how Doom can use these I would also like to comment that in this game keep away is harder to be successful with then rush down however it is still possible and still very effective.

Ive thought alot about which assists compliment doom the most and their are quite a few but due to my own laziness I’ve only pursued a few. The first thing you must understand is that the way in which you use Doom as well as your assists, is match up based. You never want to assume you can use the same strategy on every team, this is a mistake i made early in the game. The best way to learn what to do is by experience, play a variety of people including bad people until you find a strategy against each type of team that will work at least 70-80% of the time depending on your ability to perform.

For now i will use my Team as a template because that is currently the only team i can beat most teams with.
Doom, Dormammu, Sentinel (ive recently been considering changing the order to Doom, Sentinel, Dorm because i think Dorm is a better anchor, however that is another story)

On this team my assist serve a few uses, i will go over them one by one:
**Sentinel: (Sentinel Force (Charge) A)
**
He is my most often call assist because of how good drones are. His one set back is the drones disappear if he is hit at Anytime that he is out. After reading the guide it said it was a certain frame window but in my experience the drones have even been in the process of hitting the point character and then an assist hit sentinel as he was leaving and the drones disappeared (sooo rediculous >_>). So essentially the only time you want to use drones is when you:
[LIST]
[
]have a knock down and your opponent cannot stop the drones
[]are at a safe distance and know that your opponent cannot hit sentinel with either a projectile or an assist. (you know they can’t use an assist once they’ve just come in or just used their assist)
[
]have put the opponent in enough block stun that they cannot do anything until the drones have made contact.
[/LIST]
Outside of these situations if you are using drones it is highly risky and i definitely ill-advise it. With that being said what should you do once the drones are out? This is essentially the main strategy of my team. Use Doom’s movement and great special moves to allow drones to come out, then once drones are out use the mix-up opportunity to kill the character. I feel this is the most efficient way to use drones and Doom is one of the best characters to take advantage of that.

Im not going to go over all the ways to do this but the most common way i do this is:
make space by using footsies then call hidden missiles. Once the missiles are being launched i call drones because missiles is a normal. this buys plenty of time for me to approach from even full screen while my opponent is forced to block drones and missiles.

*Dormammu: (Dark Hole) A)
Dark hole is great for many uses unlike sentinel. Of course i only use it at close-mid range but it is much harder to judge when to call him as oppose to sentinel which is why i end up using sentinel more. At close range dark hole can be used as a lock down tool as it keep people in guard stun for a good amount of time but this is risky because the opponent can hit Dormammu before the hole becomes active. It can also be used while Doom is retreating to help give me space so i can call sentinel. I can easily combo off dark hole even if it hits anti-air and although it scales damage pretty hard it still gets the job done. I will now say in theory the best ways i believe to use dark hole:
[LIST]
[]When an opponent is cornered, the dark hole serves as a great lock down for 1-2 seconds. allows for one free mixup.
[
]During midscreen combos where Doom does less damage dark hole can bump it up by about 100k which is decent.
[]While Doom is tri-jump backing, Dark hole can cover him on the ground long enough for him to then cover Dorm with plasma beam or photon shot.
[
]When starting a block string, you can call Dorm to hold a character in place while you approach again after being push blocked.
[*]Dark hole also has small but decent durability enough so that he can block certain projectiles like a hadouken, soul fist, unibeam l, etc.
[/LIST]
Like i said due to the range of when you use this assist, its a little risky and you’ll have to use your discretion. This assist i find to be slightly less useful then sentinel but due to sentinels lack of spammablility i must rely on both.

I wanted to talk about the theory in using other assists but i got so caught up in my own. I will continue to talk about other characters who well support doom in another thread later, But the characters off the top of my head who i think greatly complement Doom are:
Haggar: Double Lariot
Ironman: Unibeam
Chun-Li: … Lightning legs (japanese name having assists ass chun-li >_>)
Wesker: low gun
Super Skrull: Tenderizer
Hsien-Ko: Swing
Ammy: Cold Star
Spencer: Grapple Claw
Trish: ground trap


#2

i’ve recently been trying doom/spencer/haggar. been using horizontal grapple with spencer just because thats what i see timothy using in his vids. thinking about using armor piercer though for wall bounce in some combos. what are ur thoughts on that? whenever i get h grapple to connect anyway, i usually am not quick enough to dash in and otg with :m:


#3

Dante’s Jam Session assist is god tier as a lockdown assist. it’s MVC3’s CapCom corridor assist, and doom should make great use of that.


#4

I agree that Haggar Lariat is a great assist for Doom. It keeps Doom safe from trijump/teleport rushdown and crossups since Doom doesn’t have many of his own tools to counter that, leading to a hard knockdown leading to an easy OTG s.H s.S BnB. Once the opponent is pushed into the corner where Doom wants him, calling Haggar leaves them under pressure while giving you time to trijump or crossup footdive (or fake crossup footdive) for mixups when you want to play an aggressive Doom. Conversely, it makes your opponent think twice about rushing you down if you play keepaway…

as an aside, I like Haggar with Doom as their DHCs compliment nicely and Doom has the option to give Haggar either an OTG/combobreaker or a beam.


#5

I might be mistaken but i thought spencers grappling hook leaves the character standing. If it doesn’t im not sure if that will work with Doom so well, but if it does you should use it in the same way combofiend uses it with she-hulk. Its a great tool for resists. After grappling hook Doom can jab the standing opponent then dash cancel it into anything he wants basically. You can also jab into tick throw or just jab and wait for a reaction and call haggar. this will all only work provided the assist leaves the opponent standing.

You are completely correct. Actually I’ve been speculating that Haggar might be Dooms greatest assist. He does everything Doom needs and hes so easy to confirm off. On my team Sentinel basically sets up my mix up opportunities but theres so much risk i have to avoid, with haggar theres almost no risk the only thing you have to make sure you do is let haggar leave safely. As for DHC’s in combos they won’t really connect very well but i would say which ever other assist you have should be there to either help with resets or extend you combos.

i know what you mean here but we have a small misunderstanding about what i meant when i said “lockdown” assist. You are definitely right about dantes assist being a lockdown assist because it cuts off so much of the screen but what i meant was an assist that keeps and opponent pinned to the ground in block stun while your point character is free to move. Some examples are: Ammy cold star (you literally are stuck blocking it for like 2-3 seconds), Chun-li lightning legs, hsien-ko’s swing. Jam session does pin people down for a little while but what i dont like is the end of it always pops people out, which is hard to control.


#6

again, kind of offtopic but Haggar Rapid Fist -> sphere flame just before he performs the violent axe does tons of damage, and OTG Body Press DHC into sphere flame before the opponent gets knocked back from the explosion does good damage as well. It’s a great way to capitalize off of an airthrow or lariat. conversely, most of doom’s combos end in sphere flame, which can DHC into Body Press right before the ball explodes, giving Haggar full damage on the way down before the explosion. Secondly, aerial photon array can be late DHCed out of into Haggar’s rapid fire fist. :slight_smile:

Anyway yeah, next to Dante I think Doom benefits the most from Haggar…


#7

Lol I posted in the Actual Balance topic that Doom/Haggar is a very strong duo, right under S-tier teams like Wolv/Akuma and She Hulk/Tron

If Haggar is ever out, he gets the benefits of a Doom assist.


#8

I didn’t know that stuff thanks. i figured for some reason that haggar’s body press wouldn’t reach the top of the sphere flame but i can’t test these things right now because i dont have the game where i am. This only further supports that haggar is the best assist for doom. you are definitely right.


#9

The damage from sphereflame DHC body press isn’t as great as other DHC combinations because spehere flame scales the damage horribly.

That said, they still are a good team as u can do air photon array dhc into rapid punch stuff.

Also, just to clarify, spencers horizontal grapple puts your opponent in a hard knockdown, the diagonal one resets them. regardless, i’m starting to think maybe doom/dante/haggar might be better than doom/spencer/haggar. weazel shot allows doom to continue pressure much like how cold star with amaterasu works. i have zero dante experience but i might mess around with him tonight.


#10

If you pursue that team i highly advise you use it either Doom, Haggar Dante or maybe just drop Doom for a better character. In tournament everyones already recognized how bad haggar is as an anchor so if they get past Doom they will x factor to kill dante and then the game is over. But if you feel like you can still operate with this team then i guess you’ll find your own way.


#11

Right now I am running Weaker (low shot), Spencer (Diagonal Grapple), Taskmaster (Horizontal Arrows). I’m thinking about taking out Taskmaster and putting in Doom. I’ve run into a few issues with Taskmaster that Doom fixes in every instance on paper. My goal is to be able to viably run any character on point, so I need to make sure all assists are useful to all characters. Wesker can most certainly use both diagonal grapple and plasma beam assist do no worries there. Spencer is also fine with Wesker’s otg gun and with Doom’s beam. The question for me is can Doom use Wesker’s and Spencer’s assists. For sure he can use Wesker’s. Can he use Spencer’s? I’ve come up with nice resets using the grapple assist, but do you guys think this is enough for Doom to be run on point? It seems like Doom is best with some assist that can pin the opponent in some way. But can what I have in mind work? That grapple assist is very unique and not all characters can use it well. But Doom can. I just want opinions on if people think this can work in the long run.


#12

I actually have meddled with that team, though I go Spencer (Slant)/ Wesker (Sam Edge Low)/ Doom (Plasma/Missiles).

IMO, the team is designed to NOT have Doom on point. Ever. For me, chances are that the first combo opening I can land with Spencer is going to carry you to the corner. At which point, if Spencer hasn’t punched the character to death, it’s DHC glitch time to bring in Wesker to run a corner mix up on the incoming character. If I land a hit, and if I think the anchor on that team is garbage, I’ll burn the XF 1 and close out the game (hopefully). As I’m fairly certain if you confirm a Wesker opening off of LMH xx XF1, you can still rack up 1 000 000 damage without meter.

I also dabbled around in the order of Wesker/Spencer/Doom. I’d say it’s still a solid order, though you may need more than one opening/reset to really get yourself into the driver’s seat. If I do this order, the very basic game plan is: quick left/right cross up at beginning of match. Assuming a hit, I’ll go into:
LMH xx QCF M, dash on ground, cr. M, cr. H, S, sj. MMHS.

That sequence will build me one meter. From here (your opponent is probably grounded in the corner, or very very close to it), I’d say you have to run a very big risk. Off of the OTG shot, I like to call in Slant Shot, wait for opponent to get grounded, hit with L and then kara-cancel H xx Mustang Kick. If I get the Mustang Kick, the follow up should net at minimum, 300 000 damage. Potentially, this can mean your opponent’s point man is dead at this time. Which means the second character coming in is dead on contact as you will have (more likely than not) at least 2 meters to burn. So next contact is instant death as you can just do LMH xx XF, basic combo, OTG Shot, Slant Shot, Wesker Level 3 hyper.

Obviously trying a reset is always dangerous, especially that kara-cancel one. As far as I can tell, I can get thrown out of the kara-cancel and I’m fairly certain most characters can jab through the kara-cancel.

Anyway, ignoring all that, IMO Wesker and Spencer gain far more from Doom, than Doom gains from Spencer or Wesker (and then Wesker+Spencer grants you resets and easy DHC glitch). Yes, you can potentially set up unblockables with Wesker but I’d say doing it with Doom is risky since he doesn’t have a teleport to switch sides on the enemy or just overwhelming speed like Magneto. Using Spencer/Wesker, you can slightly extend corner combos but it’s not exactly necessary (since basic Doom corner combos will grab you like…750 000 damage anyway, right?). Mid/Full screen, you’re really going Doom vs Team, IMO. If Doom is on point for this team, chances are something is going terribly wrong.


#13

I agree with this. I use a similar team of Hulk/Doom/Wesker and in times when I have Doom out, he never really benefits from WEsker’s assist. Wesker and hulk however, benefit greatly from Doom’s assist though. For me, I just bully my opponents into the corner with hulk, kill off a character, hard tag doom, and start mixup or go with wesker low/doom box jump stuffs. BUt i only bring Doom in when I have a character advantage or am low on meter.

This is significantly a different mindset than having doom on point and two assists backing him to optimize his damage. i’ve been toying around with the idea of maybe going Doom/Haggar/Spencer (in that order, as i usually play with haggar in third slot), but dhcing from Doom to haggar seems inconsistent at best. IF i could find an effective way to DHC from doom to haggar, i would use it way more than my current set of Doom/SPencer/Haggar


#14

Thanks for your input. I do exactly the same thing you do with Wesker using the Spencer assist. You can do something like that with Doom in the corner also. Ideally, I wouldn’t run Doom on point. But I want to be able to if I have to for some reason. I was just watching some matches of that Timothy guy from Florida. He actually used the horizontal grapple assist with Spencer. He would do call out the assist and they do plasma beam right after. If the Plasma Beam hit, the grapple would then pull them to the ground for an OTG combo. Pretty sweet stuff. Things to think about…


#15

I don’t know about effective, but I don’t think it’s a problem to DHC into Haggar from Doom. This is usually the situation I find myself DHC’ing into Haggar from:

  • Lariat assist Hit --> OTG st. H
    then you do the usual stuff:
    S, sj. M, F+H, ADDF, sj. M, cr. M, cr. H, S, sj. MM, F+H, AD Forward, sj. M (one hit) xx Photon Array
    DHC Body Splash.

From my experience, DHC into body splash is pretty lenient on timing. If you want rapid fire fist though, then it gets a little harder. Maxing the damage on Photon Array is a bit finicky though if you don’t have your heights done well. If you don’t DHC to Haggar, I think that’s still a decent 500 000 some in damage and leaves you basically meter neutral.

Though I imagine you know all that. I’m not sure what else you’re looking for in a DHC from Doom to Haggar.


#16

My current take on Doom is he is not an ideal point character. He can be effective but not like the Dante tier is. I’ve moved him into the second slot and am loving it.
His assists argue for not starting him and he is effective enough to be a second character when backed by one or two good assists.

Doom has two ways to play point. Have a lockdown and rushdown like usual. And have an assist that will push to the corner and THEN do corner shenanighans.

Lockdown’s that come attached to good chars : Dorm Dark hole, Ammy Cold star, Dante Weasel.
Beams work too.
Zero can do a ghetto lockdown with Shippuga. So could Wolvie. Mags beam is a ghetto lockdown as well due to its one hit.
Akuma might be best lockdown though I don’t like him except in slot 3.
Drones same as akuma.

If your team cannot give Doom a lockdown assist so he can do jumpins I say put him in slot 3. Use him as an anchor and XF3 him for super rushdown Doom.
If you run Haggar, put Haggar in slot 3 and Doom in slot2. Use Haggar for corner lockdown and defense while you push the opponent to the corner.

So Spencer/Wesk/Doom I agree with.

I actually played heavily with Doom/Spencer/Haggar. I now think the order is Spenc/Doom/Haggar. Use Doom assist to get in, Spencer to combo to corner into DHC glitch , Doom kills. Then mixup with Haggar for lockdown on entry. Doom/Haggar mixups are dirty and effective. Repeat until you run their whole team. If they escape the corner Doom can easily play, but try to get spencer back in is the ideal plan. Photon array into grapple super is safe on block usually.
Never use Haggar on point. Save his HP for assist calls and win with two characters.

I don’t think Spencer B resets are worth the resources for Doom.I’ve played heavily using them, but in the end Doom can get so much damage even by DHC into Spencer who finishes where a reset is hardly worth it. If you are playing spencer just for Doom resets, don’t. Doom needs lockdown assist more than resets, and I will wager he needs a good GTFO assist as well.

One last suggestion. If you are thinking of doing a reset and have Haggar on your team consider doing a snapback instead. Go for a mixup on a crippled incomer, not someone with aid of assists. Doom builds the meter for it and then some.


#17

First i would like to say im so glad you came here Realyst and i will definitely be able to answer your question. We’ve also met in person before at radiostar in NYC so i know you’ll be able to understand what im saying.

I’m not going to comment on you having Doom last because i’ve already typed it so many times my figures refuse to do it once more, you should check out my positioning thread. But i will address your question about Doom using Wesker and Spencer being good assist for Doom.

I don’t know too much about spencer’s assist but i assume its uses are either for an anti-air grab or create a great in combo reset. So to address that I think spencer would be the weak link in terms of assists. One of Doom’s main problems is his ability to get in. The only High priority move he has is footdive but this move is very slow moving and easy to hit once doom is in the air. So without an assist that either forces people to block or simply covers Dooms approach really well he will lose a significant amount of advantage. Wesker’s gun shot is almost always useful for anyone with a tri-jump because after a knockdown you can set up an easy unblockable but Doom needs to get in first to cause a knockdown which wesker cannot help him do and neither can Spencer. Now the other great thing about Doom is he virtually cannot be lamed out by any character in game because he has some of the games best projectiles. With that approach you can force opponents to come to you and then proceed to get your hit then and deal damage that way. If you were to use the latter strategy i think spencers assist will be more useful because it can works as an anti-air.

The move everyone forgets Doom has is Hidden Missiles. This move single-handedly makes Doom one of the best keep away characters because once out the missiles make Doom almost untouchable. The only way to deter the missiles is to either throw a super at Doom on reaction or rush him down before he can call them. Even rushing him down becomes risky because the missiles hitbox is kind of sporadic and will sometimes hit characters even in front of Doom. But the one greatest thing about Hidden Missiles is that its a NORMAL. Any back off assist can be called while Doom is calling missiles such as Haggar, Akuma, etc. making him nearly untouchable save the super option.

If i knew more about spencers assist i could tell you specifically how to use it but i dont really know. The only advise i can give you is try and play a more keep away oriented style with Doom if you don’t have assist to help him get in. However, be aware that keep away is already been confirmed to be harder to play in marvel as well as almost completely ineffective against phoenix teams.

As for st.johns post i completely disagree but like i already said you can read my Doom positioning thread if you really want to know why


#18

did you really need to type out a wall of text to basically say “i have no idea what spencer’s assist does but you should still play doom on point despite using two assists that don’t help doom on point at all.” while i’m not disagreeing with you that doom has a hell of a lot of good shit on point, the truth is that people can still play him at anchor if the team synergy is there. both wesker and spencer benefit greatly from doom’s assists and, in more specific situations, can set up an easy dhc glitch into doom. that is a team built around wesker and spencer and is not meant to be a team built around doom.


#19

One more thing with Spencer/Doom. Don’t forget that if you connect a command grab you can hard tag Doom in to OTG and escape throw scaling into a full Doom combo. Ghetto DHC glitch into Wesker or DHC into Spencer should be a dead character. Spencer corner follow ups to DHC from Doom exceeds a Doom Level 3 should you build the 3 bars. Basically a meterless DHC glitch scenario. Doom helps set up tick throw attempts real well. The threat of overheads, tick throws, and spencer tricks should crack most opponents.

I might play this team again in casuals for fun. Spencer is fun.


#20

if you had actually read my entire post you would noted that i still gave great advise on another way to use the team with the focus being Doom. And i never said you can’t play Doom as anchor, but if you do so your just limiting your own options. I think there are better assists than Dooms and far better anchors.