Adjustable input window?


#1

So, everybody’s all up in arms about the control scheme, but I’m more worried about something that actually has a big effect on gameplay, specifically input windows.

TvC and SF4 have insanely long input windows. What’s worse, is that the game grabs the first found motion from that window. This leads to things like this:

In this example, we have TvC Ryu. Here’s the input:
Block High, Block Low, Pushblock High, qctABC
Here’s what happened:
Pushblock Fierce Donkey Kick.

TvC and SF4 are riddled with junk like this. Certain characters become extremely hard to play because you have to be extremely careful, making sure that the game does the move you want it to do, making sure that you don’t come anywhere close to doing the input for a move you don’t want. As another example, the best Polymar players in the world frequently have problems with 360 supers coming out in the air when all they want is SJxxAD…

There are people I know, however, that like the longer input windows. These people are casual players that wouldn’t play MvC2 with me. So… I think this is a fair question:

Would you be in favor of adjustable input windows? All you’d need is two or three settings, for how long the game seeks input for specials or supers. Short would be MvC2 seek time, and Long would be TvC/SF4 seek time.

What say you? Yay or Nay?


#2

it’s REALLY easy to implement, I made a fighting game input engine for a rapid prototype and adjustable input window was one of the features I put in for testing. Whether it should be in or not is a more interesting question that I don’t know the answer to. if you allow it to be super long grapplers could input the throw and then walk forward for awhile before grabbing.


#3

It would be fine as long as the default window is the maximum allowable. ie, you can’t adjust it to be longer than the game’s default setting, only shorter. If players want to be able to walk forward into qcf without getting a DP they should by all means have that option. There is no downside to implementing this if the only option available is to make your input windows less lenient.


#4

I’ll tell you this. If this game has the input shortcuts that plagued SF4, I won’t buy it. I hated those shortcuts, they’re pointless, mess up the inputs for players who know what they’re doing, and are there only to help terrible players.

So, short answer is yes. I want the ability to modify the input window, so I don’t have to put up with missing my moves because of newb-friendly inputs. MVC had easy mode as an option, I don’t see why this shouldn’t be optional.


#5

After making this thread, I created a suggestion for the same idea in Capcom’s suggestion box.

http://capcom-unity.com/go/suggestion/box

Created by Sirami. The formatting came off as all funky, but the info is there.


#6

I would much rather the input window be universal. I guess it won’t matter for online play but for tournaments it’ll be a hassle. The original windows for the Vs. series were never a problem. To anyone. Well, unless you have no hands.

Also, I have to agree on the shortcuts. But you have the same problem in tournaments. For online play it doesn’t matter since each player can choose to turn it off or on but face to face it’s one or the other.


#7

If the input windows are going to be universal, they are going to be universally long, and that’s the bottom line. I agree with you, that I’d rather they be universally short, but since long input windows allow more people to play, that’s what the standard will be.

That’s why I want an option for short input windows.


#8

Meh, it’s a shaky subject. On the one hand, leaving it universal leaves the windows pretty long, which isn’t in our favor. On the OTHER hand, making them adjustable can make it annoying to playing other people to which you don’t know their input window size, so you don’t know when they can walk up and Hadou you, or just walk up and SRK you. Now, if there were a way, to implement it and be able to show what window you’re on like how it shows Ultra selection in SSF4, then we’d have something.


#9

Here’s a good question, why even have input shortcuts? MVC2 didn’t have them, and I have yet to hear of anyone complaining about the controls in that game. I mean, Marvel is the reigning king of easy inputs, QCF+two buttons=50 Hit Super. I detest dumbed down, mash-friendly inputs put in a fighter so 5 year olds can do an SRK.


#10

Because Capcom has this idea that accessibility for new players = gigantic ass input and reversal windows + perplexingly lenient input recognition.

I swear SFIV wants to give me a DP when I hit :d:+:k:. :looney: It’s like, input a fireball or a super motion: the game engine is thinking to itself, “are you sure you don’t want a dragon punch? 'cause you might have been thinking dragon punch? dragon punches are fun! If i gave you a dragon punch, you would enjoy it what with the flames and the pretty colours. Here have a dragon punch YAY!”. :chainsaw:


#11

adjustable input windows?

Either shortening the input windows or removing the ability to do moves without all the actual inputs would be nice. If they want to make the game noob friendly they should just implement a shift button that turns the regular attacks into specials or something. I don’t know. It would be tough to judge without knowing the weight system that they build characters and their move lists with. Longer input window makes characters with more complex moves easier to play. I too have been quite frustrated by the random lvl 1 air super when trying to air dash in TVC. Or heaven forbid Chun Li gets 3 meter charged up!!! Don’t crouch block - super jump - low IAD!!! U will waste your lvl 3 super and die when you land most every time!!! :frowning: I wish TvC had a way to get around crap like that. It really is a great game, but that kinda lame junk just makes me want to break my disc and never play again!


#12

IIRC, MvC2 had an adjustable input window, at least on the DC version. I think it wouldn’t hurt to implement it here.


#13

I’m sure there are potential drawbacks to adjustable input windows that I haven’t thought of yet, but I don’t see why having it be an option in the button config screen wouldn’t work out (or at least quell all of the objections raised so far in this thread).


#14

Going into button config is needlessly complicated. When you’ve got half a dozen people playing, and everyone wants their own window, this makes you go into a menu to change it. Might as well make it easier to access.

I definitely favor including to option to shorten the window, with implementation being the same as “Normal/Turbo” on older VS games.


#15

You can’t be serious. Having the option in the same place that you’d need to go anyway for a button check is needlessly complicated?


#16

So you want the moves to be harder to perform so that the moves won’t be harder to perform?:wtf:
Listen, Capcom’s going to make design decisions. Leniency in the input windows for specials and supers makes the initial execution easier and makes it easier for new players to feel they are playing the game successfully. End result: More people purchase the game. This is Capcom’s goal, so I’d expect they’ll do it. Similar design decisions like the magic series normal chains are precisely what made the versus series so popular to begin with.

For those of you wanting to be competitive in the game, whether those struggling with overlapping inputs in a large input window, or with precision inputs in a tight input window, the answer is the same: Practice your damn execution. The game will do the exact same thing every time if your inputs are the exact same. Any failure of the moves you want coming out is entirely the fault of the player.


#17

It all sounds kind of pointless to me. For starters, people will most likely buy the game regardless of input windows, it’s not like hundreds of thousands of casual gamers are going to go into Gamestop and ask “so, how many frames do I have to do a dragon punch? Oh, that many! Nah, that’s too hard for me.” So why it’s presumed to be an issue that will effect sales is beyond me. Then of course we have the solution to the problem that casual gamers will encounter as they develop into intermediate and advanced players, that you just mentioned, which is “practice your execution.” If we’re expected to go from a position where we have to practice execution, to another position where we have to practice execution, what was the point in making the switch in the first place? I suppose it makes things more frustrating for the advanced player and less frustrating for the beginner which in all right is the way it should be, but special and super commands aren’t hard these days anyway, it’s not like we’re still in the day of Street Fighter II.


#18

Here here, I understand and agree, however:

When I was learning to play MvC2, I’d figure something out, or find something, and when I tried it I’d go “Man, that **** is tough!” I’d practice until it wasn’t tough.

In TvC I go “Man, everything’s easy” except every now and again something happens that I didn’t want to happen, and I go “God ******* ****** **** THIS GAME AND ITS ****** DESIGN!”

In MvC2 I switch from one character to another and have to practice new stuff.
In TvC I switch from one character to another and have to be constantly on guard NOT to do certain stuff, less my character does something “special” that I didn’t want the character to do.

You’re absolutely right about the execution thing. The game only does what it’s told to do, however… the frustration that comes along with easy inputs is much more annoying than the alternative. It’s frustrating enough that it keeps me from wanting to play games that have them, and I know I’m not the only person that feels that way. (I’m NOT saying that I’d boycot MvC3 and not play it, but I’m just saying)

I still think “why not” when it comes to including an option for input windows. Is there a good reason not to include an option?


#19

Other than the fact it’s more programming work, not really… Eventually though, people who want to take the game seriously at a tournament level would have to adjust (assuming tournaments are run with the stricter option). Hell even if they wanted to find decent matches online, they’d have to adjust… Might as well just condition the new players to strict inputs from the start then there’d be no issues what so ever (imo)…

Anyway, I voted no, don’t give an option. I’d rather Capcom found some sort of middle ground and eased up the inputs slightly, but not to a level that it was taken in SFIV or TvC …


#20

shortcuts in sfiv are only a problem for players with poor execution. The input window is a problem as it allows stupid stuff like honda being able to ex headbutt a crossup very easily with a dealyed ppp input, but the move priority list and shortcuts making people get dragon punches when they mash for something else isn’t a problem, it just highlights how bad poeple’s execution is.