Adon Strategy and Match-up Thread

arrrgh

St. hp is still good against cody, but today I was testing it and ex zonk will beat it clean. However, that’s all he has. Also, ia jk destroys the slides, it even trades with the hk version of them.

Doing some other testing with the ia jk. Completely demolishes throws attempts. Very good tool. However, I haven’t been able to get in depth enough with crouch teching. Will update after playing tonight. Hopefully have some match videos up from the other day.

However, eddosan, I do believe that your mixup seems to be all around pretty solid… arrgh more testing tonight O.o

Picture this for the throw punisher…

ia jk, cr. mk xx super for like 400 damage!

orrr sweep for the untechable

Also after getting a untechable knockdown you can do a ia jk and if they attempt to reversal on their wake up you will be safe and get a free punish. niice.

^ hey greglife what input do you use for the ia jk. im having some trouble with it. and you seem to be postin stuff alot it left and right.

I basically do it the same as cammy, but delay it just a second so adon has time to leave the ground. So, basically…

down, down back, back, up back, up, up forward

or

down, down back, back, up forward

2367 for the easy input and 236987 for the more accurate notation if you look at your num pad. You just had to make sure to give him time to leave the ground, that is the main reason I’ve been messing up on it.

I still haven’t got my execution down to 100 % yet, but when i get the set up down it seems to usually work or at least set up some good pressure. I will hopefully have some matches of me just testing stuff out up tomorrow or the next day once I find the charger for my camera. Will also make a tutorial vid for anyone wanting to learn.

Any advice on the Deejay matchup?

The dude zones me out completely and even when I remotely consider being in the air, he just rapes me with that kick special.
It’s like Guile only with an anti-Adon special :frowning:

Honestly, I’m trying to find a good use for Jaguar kick. I don’t use it except to get over fireballs, other than that it’s useless. It always gets beat by everything else. And looking at the pros play the game they don’t use it at all.

I’ve played against other adons who did nothing more than spammed the move, it’s easily punishable. It doesn’t seem like the mindgamez move people have been putting it off to be. I think the mindgames stop when people know the match up.

Also, I’m seeing some people do an air attack into his instant air jaguar kick, is that possible? Or are they air attacking, landing then jaguar kicking my eyes always seem to fail me.

The JK (short) is really good for advancing on those trying to run away. Good punisher for people like Blanka or E. Honda after their roll/headbutt.

As you already know JK (med) is good for getting around fireballs with the proper spacing. Knowing that, fireballers who throw one less than full screen away will probably be caught in your JK if the timing is right. I cant recall properly right now but I may have also stopped a tatsu (hurricane kick) with JK (med) or JK (short) need to test again though to confirm.

JK (fierce) is good for those agressive players like guy. I honestly can say though I dont use this one agressively though since its doesnt move me forward much but it does have some antiair properties.

I usually trick people using JK’s though since chances are they are going to be waiting to punish. JK (FK-MK-FK-SK) or someother combination like that to throw them off although this is usually like during the last moments of the match when I want to bait them into taking some action…

Okay, so the whole concept behind the jag kicks are like this, use the ia jag kicks for pressure after block strings for the safest option, plus if it hits you follow up with a sweep, cr. lk xx rising jag, or mk xx super. If the player is smart he will finally start focus attacking them and that’s when you start using the ground versions to break their fa. The reason I think the ia jag kicks are better is because you can actually follow up with something after it. Your opponent will start feeling real safe about blocking them low and that’s when you can hit them with an ex version.

What I’ve been doing is…

cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. lp, cr. mp, st. hk

cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. mp throw

That’s the blockstring and tick throw set up that I usually use, and they will run into the st. hk and start trying to counter poke me. This is when it gets fun.

cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. lp, cr. mp. PAUSE. ia jag kick

The ia jag kick will go over their counter poke and you get a free combo when it hits. If they go for the throw tech your ia jag kicks eats it. However, crouch techers will just block low, but you can smack them with an ex ground jag kick for a solid knockdown.

Also, use the hard kick ground jag kick to bait out reversal attempts, I haven’t started doing this yet, because I’ve been working on the other set ups, but I’m sure this will be pretty good for people that want to reversal your jag kicks. So, I’m thinking something like this… You do the block string of your choice and after you have them thinking you’re going to ia jag kick after it, just take a step back and do the hk ground jag kick. This will hopefully bait out their reversal and give you a free chance to punish.

I’m not saying any of this is set in stone or I know adon better than the next guy, I just think these are the smartest ways of using all the jag kicks. I don’t really think lk ground jag kick and mk ground jag kick have that many uses, but to each his own. Just make sure to always mix this stuff up and play it real safe and smart. As long as you’re doing it safe Adon has a really strong pressure game. My execution is still a little sloppy, but I’m already getting results from using the kicks like this.

Sorry for the double post, please don’t ignore my last one, it’s got some important stuff in there.

Anyway…

Blanka slide is punishable on block from max range with hp super.
Blanka slide is punishable on block if it is anywhere out of max range with a cr. mk.
Blocked up ball is punishable on block with hp super.

I would also like to add that cr. mk in general is amazing in the blanka match. Interchanging between jabs to keep him honest on blanka balls and at mid range mk to stop hops shenanigans

Turtles!!! all day yesterday was national turtle day i guess… ive been using neutral m.kick lk,lp,lk rj if the lk hits and i can combo from there…
but my problem is the constant turtle what to do? throw? any help thanks guys… m.jk has knocked down quite a few hurricane kicks to my surprise…

I actually don’t have that much trouble with turtles
if you’re doing your block strings
mix it up with a throw some where in there (I throw a lot)
hk.JT gets you in, I like to but risky link to c.lp then f.mp for the over head
also not confirmed yet but you maybe able to jump in deep and IO them assuming they think you’ll try to attack low
but I’m not 100% sure if the IO will hit the crouching opponents I’ll try this out later on today and post back if no one else does

throwing should already be a big part of your game. If they’re turtling on you, push them to the corner, from there start to throw out your c. lp, c. lp combo, stop at the second jab, walk forward a half second, and throw.Alternatively, after the second jab, jump in at them with an ambiguous crossup with j. mk. If you jump straight from your jab position, you will land in front of them. Taking a half step forward and jumping with j. mk will cross them up. If the cross up hits, proceed into the bnb rj combo. If they block the cross up, throw them. Same for the forward jump, if they block, throw, if it connects, hit 'em! Last option off of corner turtling is ex JK. This requires spacing, so if you want to use this option, starting using block strings so they get used to the idea of low blocking. From there, use c. lp, c.lp, c. mp, S. lk xx ex JK. This nets you an untechable knockdown and wake up games on your opponent. If they’re resistant to ALL of this, then your best option is to retreat and try to bait and punish.

If you have ultra meter you can over head into ultra [media=youtube]0H8QnVl1DQo[/media]

Im pretty sure thats one of the challenges…

dope thanks guys my problem is i dont throw at all i come from the original where a throw in the arcade got you sighs and bad looks for its cheeziness… and i dont mind the flack for my comment i cant stand throwing!! ive been thrown in the middle of moves too many times to count its retarded if you ask me… but will need to incorporate against the damn turtles…

if it hasn’t been posted yet just got done goin about 30 rounds against fei… s.rh stops the rekkas like money(same distance as starting the fight) and i stopped the chicken wing a few times with ex s.jk and j.tooth. didn’t get a chance to really try a reg jk in cuz of the pressure. will keep trying…hope it helps

if it was Dan would be there.

nope not there thats a combo… kinda like the last in the trial but modified to be way easier to hit very nice!!:tup:

two quick things for vega, jumpback and mp and jumpback lp are good options for stuffing walldives, requires some timing. I also stuffed a walldive earlier today with c. mp. I need to test this further for timing, but its a good start to making the matchup a little less lopsided. If we can shut down his air game, we can play ours!

real quick against fei you can counter rekkas using s.jk adon goes right above the first punch

Just want to shed a bit of light on Vega and Sim match-ups.

I’ve only been using Adon for about a week now. I’ve used only Ken since day one of SFIV, and I’m not even a hardcore fighting gamer, but so far, I’ve done decent when it comes to competition.

Basically, when it comes to Vega and Sim, play the counter-aggressor. It’s the same tactic I use when I play Ken. I’m typically (9 out of 10 times) a pure rush down that mixes pokes, focus, bait, and punishment, which I dubbed “Poke and Punish”, or P&P. When it comes to advanced or skilled opponents, I can’t really do that. They are more level-headed so they don’t get flustered at the barrage, and they read a little better so they can stop any punishment opportunities. So, when I’m in a situation like this, I’ll mostly rely on this tactic in the latter portion of round 2 and 3. I fill the rest of the match with being the counter-aggressor. Conversely when it comes to facing Vega and Sim when using Adon.

Vega
It’s true that Vega has wall techniques and chances are you’ll be flying over each others head a lot. However, that’s not the way to go when being the counter-aggressor. Now you don’t have to rely on being defensive, which I really don’t think it’s the way to go against Vega at all (though I’m only speaking when using aggressive-capable fighters). If you see a wall technique coming up, I noticed that it is frequently the one where Vega reaches overhead and does the slash-swipe,(sorry for not knowing the names. I’m serious, I only played Ken, and just now Adon, so I really don’t know anything of other fighters) I counter this with a FADC after absorbing the slash-swipe blow. Forward or Backwards is purely up to you, both are safe, but forward (or whichever takes you closer to Vega) tends to have more punishment opportunities because you’re closer, of course. This should be already in your arsenal against Vega, and a good way to integrate this into the counter-aggressor theme is by baiting him to frequently chase you with it (and you’ll be surprised how many Vega’s rely on that move and not the drill-like one, or the suplex grab). Do poke combos (block strings work too) or achieve an untechable knockdown. Before wake-up, LKTooth which will bait them to wall-technique chase you, and 6/10 times it will be the overhead claw strike. Of course, don’t overly rely on this because some of them just jump back to their corner and what not, especially ones who’ve been punished by it a few times. Other than that, only use specials during poke combos (HKJK good at finishing combo/block strings because frame advantage) or clearly open punishment. Keep the heat, but aim for your hits to be blocked because it really baits them to do a slide or the backflip kick which are punishable with just about anything that isn’t intensive. HP -> HKRJ will do for backflip kick, and substitute HP for LK -> HKRJ or LP -> LK -> L/M/HKRJ. This is the essence of counter-aggressive play. Create heat, make them think they have something to punish (especially Vegas), then punish their follow up. Of course, there are countless ways of doing this, which I religiously use, but it’s like a work of art more than science, and it’s easier by just doing in then saying it. What I can offer is mixing this tactic with FADC baits before wake up, empty jump ins and outs before wake up (especially if you’ve been utilizing MKCrossup, which is pretty safe if used appropriately), and various levels of JTooth (consistent empty ones confuse them). Not to echo, but to expand, this is the role of counter-aggression. Aggressive, but aim to be blocked most of the time, and force them to be aggressive and counter their aggressiveness because you already see it coming. As far as punishing with anti-airs, I’m not all to positive. With Ken, good-ol’-faithful Ultra 1 did very nicely against anything, especially Vega’s Ultra I (or any Ultra for that matter), which, by using these tactics, a very easy set-up. Not sure how Adon’s Ultra II will fare, but it’s worth a shot.

-Key Tips:
–After applying pressure and gaining a knockdown (techable or not), dash up (if you have time) before wake up and then immediately do HKJT. More times than not, they’ll try a grab or poke of some sort, which 9/10 you’ll get the hit. If blocked, you get a free grab, or you can simply neutral jump MK into a poke combo if you know any, or a RJ.
—Pay attention to Vega’s pattern and fit in as many MKCrossups you can. They enable good combo opportunities, which might inevitably end with a knockdown (which really sets Vega’s off balanced, especially if you try to screw up their charge by switching sides), and will ultimately keep them on their toes because they’ll get the impression you’re going to be aggressive from there. Of course, you won’t, go back to counter-aggression.
----Chase Vega’s handsprings if you’re close. From there it’s extremely variable. I’m not sure to recommend this because you have to be a fairly good reader to use this properly. Following the handspring is risky because there is so many options for Vega which makes it harder for you to decide exactly what to do. I don’t really have a problem if I found a pattern. So look for a pattern and try to counter it. But remember, escape after it, or sometimes, come right back somehow (most likely a HKJT, which I dub this tactic as Boomerangin’). My usual routes are a crHK (among many other options) if they are grab-heavy, a MKCrossup, or block then punish if it’s a backflip kick. If they use a wall technique, either chase for pressure (but you have to be a good reader and creative for an effective follow up) or return to the standard tactics. Lastly, don’t follow if the Vega is crPoke-heavy. His crPokes are very long and hard to punish, and to escape, once in them. If you can counter them, or if they normally poke once (Focus here if so), then be confident and do so.
-----CAUTION: I’m not sure if it’s all forms, or just one, or some, but a RJ is stuffed by throw if close enough. Everyone probably knows that, but just reemphasizing.

Dhalsim
You can utilize the same tactics on Sim, but not as freely. This one you really have to rely on being defensive, whilst being the counter-aggressor. In this match-up, I’ll rely on counter-aggression in the latter portion of a round, especially if I’m far ahead in health. I fill the rest of the match by being very defensive. Get far. Constantly neutral jump. Do a lot of repeat LKJT from far away. Sneak in a HK/EXJT which will hit if you’re smart when using it. All this will inevitably make Sim become the aggressor, just what we want. Then, cleverly, become the counter-aggressor to whatever he attempts. Most of the time he’ll try to fluster you with empty-gain teleports, then sneak with a teleport that gets him close to do what he’s planning, but you already know what he’s going to do (or hopefully you do haha) and counter it. Most of the time it’s a poke, stretch poke, yoga fire, or slide. Be smart with your focus attacks during this phase, they aren’t expecting sudden aggressiveness so they won’t properly stop it most of the time. Also, grab as much as you can. Even if it lands in techs, it will fluster the Sim. Constantly mimicking Sim will either cancel out (which will give you the chance to be counter-aggressive afterward if you’re creative), a trade in your favor, or punishment in your favor. So basically, be counter-aggressive and mimic are the general themes here. Lastly, during this phase of Sim being the aggressor, don’t be scared to poke. Use Adon’s good pokes (MP, MK, HK, HP, crMK, crHK [mainly good in this situation only]) then get the hell out of there. You can LKJT, back jump, or if you’re ballsy (which is good once in a while), nJumpMK -> throw, or just throw. Basically, make sure the poke combo is short and you quickly find a way out of being punished, because you will if it gets too long or you turtle poking distance from Sim. This isn’t foolproof, but it’s more or less a good template for fighting Sim with Adon, and should be a basis for your tactics. I think the best way to see its effectiveness is seeing a replay of mines against Sim.

-Key Tips:
–Be cautious. Very, very cautious.
—Always stay at least screen distance and away from any attacks. The only trouble you’ll get is mostly a well placed yoga fire. Other than that, Sim will get impatient and close-in. That should be the only time you can be close. But get far away again shortly after.
----STAY FAR AWAY ! ! !
-----The key to mimicking Sim, grab a lot. Chances are you’ll grab when he does, because Sim relies on it. If you get good at this, you’ll be landing more grabs then him. A well placed crossup almost guarantees this. Also, mix up nThrow with bThrow. Really throws them off, and gets you back at being a far distance.
------FEAR THE KNEE ! ! !
-------If you use this tactic effectively, you’ll most likely never get hit by Sim’s Ultra II, which really isn’t his best, so punish Sim for using it. 8D
---------BE CAUTIOUS ! ! !

So in summary, a common issue presents itself when facing a good Vega and Sim: You won’t be able to be a pure rush down or aggressive Adon. Which is fine. They’re expecting you to be that way. Force them out of this comfort way of thinking and be the counter-aggressor. Applying short bursts of aggression, in unison with proper follow ups. Probably won’t ensure a win 100% of the time, but will get you to round three, or possibly even the stakes more or less, that is if you’re having trouble with these match-ups. I don’t have much trouble against Vega as I do Dhalsim. I mainly only rely on these tactics when I do though, and that was the basis of my tips. All in all, it isn’t completely terrible match-ups, but things do seem to get rather clumsy when they come to be. Hope this helps.

I’ve yet to play a vega
so I have no experience
but are you sure focusing the wall dive is wise
if he does the FBA then fine it should work, but can’t he izuna drop you out of the focus startup?