Advanced Astral Vision Question! (frame data)

morrigan

#1

this question’s really about morrigan’s astral vision, but i guess it could be applied to any powerup hyper since they aren’t attacks. (the frame data is from vanilla and might be different now, but it doesn’t matter)

FRAME DATA
here’s morrigan’s astral vision frame data (powerup-no attack):
startup: 10+6
active: -
recovery: 13

here’s ryu’s shinku hadoken hyper frame data (attack):
startup: 18+1
active: 80
recovery: 23

ANALYSIS
in ryu’s example, there’s 18 frames of startup before the freeze screen where he can be hit out of the attack as well as 1 frame post freeze where his attack can still be interrupted. if ryu is hit anytime during these first 19 frames, his attack will not come out. that’s why it’s the startup. recovery is obviously for punishing.

QUESTION
if the startup for morrigan’s astral vision is 10+6, why are the 6 post freeze screen frames there and how are they different from the recovery? if you hit morrigan during the 6 frames of post-freeze “startup,” the hyper will activate anyways. how come the frame data for this hyper isn’t just 10 startup with 19 (6+13) recovery?

it’s same thing with phoenix’s healing field: startup: 4+3, recovery: 18. why isn’t it 4 startup and 21 recovery since her field won’t disappear if she’s hit during the 3 post freeze frames?


#2

Good question. I bet if you PMed one of the strategy guide authors, they’d tell you why they wrote it as 10+6 instead of 10+0 and 19 recovery. I’d like to know, too. Maybe write the question in the strategy guide thread?


#3

i just joined today, so i had no idea there is a strategy guide thread ^.^ i tried to find a general UMVC3 thread because this question pertains to all powerup hypers, but i couldn’t find such a thread. could you tell me where that thread is? this question has been bothering me!
as for the authors, i think it’s just their job to write down the information they get from the game developers. they made a lot of mistakes in the dante section of the vanilla guide.


#4

The authors of the game guide figured out every single line of that frame data themselves. Capcom gave them no help at all, which is why their Firebrand section of the guide is garbage. Still, respect for what they put out.

Here’s the thread for the strategy guide:


BradyGames UMvC3 Official Guide
#5

interesting. in the vanilla guide, they kept mentioning dante’s air play as being (QCF+H) when it’s QCF+M lol; they also have his air throw>rainstorm as doing 500,000 damage! that just sounds like someone who was writing down info that they didn’t know.
okay, let’s try that thread! thanks a lot.


#6

Capcom literally gives them 1-2 months to put all that together before the game launches. It’s a lot of work to assemble a book of that quality and quantity in that time, and it’s a small team of people. There are definitely more errors than it “should” have, but for their time constraints I think it’s a wonderful final product.


#7

I’m pretty sure it’s written as start up, because even if it still activates if you’re hit out of it, it does not if you X-factor it too early.


#8

hmm, that’s definitely something to consider. i guess it could be capcom’s way of keeping players from using powerup moves and xFactor canceling them too early. reminds me of when i accidentally DHC out of shadow servant too early and it doesn’t come out -_-

congrats! this is the only answer anyone has given me on this subject! let’s see what other people think.


#9

An excellent hypothesis. Makes sense to me. Stalking Flare works the same way. (31+4 on startup)


#10

i’m very happy with Nooneyouknow’s answer =] though, i still wonder if there’s more to it. door-mom-moo’s stalking flare is an attack though, so it will disappear if he’s hit during the post freeze startup. actually, it disappears if he’s hit period.


#11

What I meant is that if you DHC out of Stalking Flare too soon, the flare never comes out post-cinematic. You need to wait 4 frames for it to actually appear, and then you can DHC. So Nooneyouknow’s answer seems like a pretty good one. This also explains why most persistent-on-tagout self-buffs hypers are X+0 on startup frames.


#12

wait, are you sure astral vision won’t activate if you xFactor cancel it too early? i tried it a few times in training mode and it always came out.


#13

so if you DHC Morrigan in with AV, it would come out in 6 frames? cause it feels kinda slow. Like it has alotta of recovery or something…


#14

not 100% sure how it works but

after you DHC, your character basically has no startup anymore. It just transitions into recovery frames if your character has any. This is why mode supers like DT\clones from zero are god like DHCs in.

AV comes out instantly passed its start up and it transitions into recovery only

me thinks


#15

it has 10+6 frames startup and 13 recovery, so it basically has 19 recovery.


#16

ohhhhhh ok that makes sense thanks guys I was trying to figure that out for the longest time


#17

yeah, DHC just means that the **post freeze screen **startup is removed from the equation.
so, if you were to DHC into storm’s hail storm, which is 40+1 startup, it would just be 1 startup instead, a.k.a. instant.
if you were to DHC into mr. wright’s level 3, which is 10+0 startup, it would be a zero frame DHC! a.k.a. best DHC and hyper in the game!

i’m pretty sure that frame data is accurate.


#18

yeah im starting to understand, sucks that AV has so much recovery though ;( but its still a great use of a bar though.
does anyone know how much +frames/-frames fly cancelling some of her moves give?


#19

when i first got vanilla, i thought her AV should have 1 or 0 recovery because 19 doesn’t make sense!
the only thing i’ve heard about fly canceling is someone said fly canceling an air fireball “appears to have 8 frames of recovery.”


#20

DHCs use the post super freeze frames of the incoming hyper only, same with THCs, they use preflash of the point, and post flash of everytihng else.