AE 2012 edition changes?

dhalsim

#1

• Yoga Inferno (Super move) damage 75 x 2, 60 x 3 for a total of 330 damage. This did 300 damage in Arcade Edition. (ok… some damage back)

• EX Yoga Blast damage 90 + 50. First hit gets 20 more damage, second hit 20 less, so if Dhalsim only gets the first hit he gets the better damage. (… will need to be explored. ex blast was very useful in the right situations. not sure what the juggle will mean. maybe if you trade the first hit you can throw out a limb or ultra in the corner? )

• Standing Light Punch active for 4 frames. But other frame info unaltered. (anyone even use this?)

• Hurtbox on Yoga Blast reduced. (hurtbox = hitbox? so now it will trade all the time? was the box reduced closer to sim or at the end of the flame? will it still land if there are deep on the jump in? )

• Can follow up Yoga Blast with additional moves for combo. (*again? did they decrease recovery after it lands? what?

Couple of things that would have been practical and nice… decrease push back on a landed b. mk so the light flame/ex flame doesn’t whiff… then you get ultra’ed. or increase hitbox of flames… give me my super damage back :confused:

*why the heckkkkkkkkkkkkk does b. fp to med flame do more damage than b. fp to ex flame? b. fp to ex flame used to hurt in super
*


Guy VS Dhalsim help
#2

Just copying my thoughts from general discussion:

So to adress the current released AE 2012 changes to Dhalsim:

• Yoga Inferno (Super move) damage 75 x 2, 60 x 3 for a total of 330 damage. This did 300 damage in Arcade Edition.
-Something inbetween Super and AE, which is ok I guess. It’s pretty damaging and very usefull. Dhalsim will have a little more damage potential again. Also the 2 first hits do the most damage, which is good as antiairing divekicks with it often results in the divekicking character falling out.

• EX Yoga Blast damage 90 + 50. First hit gets 20 more damage, second hit 20 less, so if Dhalsim only gets the first hit he gets the better damage.
-Same as with the super: Its better since divekicking characters often fall out, and its good if you anti air early in the opponents jump arc.

• Standing Light Punch active for 4 frames. But other frame info unaltered.
-This is also obviously a buff that is supposed to help sim against divekicking characters. Active frames has been increased from 1 to 4, and with a 4 frame start up, it might work wonders?

• Hurtbox on Yoga Blast reduced.
-Interesting buff. We are still left without the knowledge of how big this buff is, but as I have been able to anti air with light kick blast on reaction in AE, I should be more than able with a reduced hurtbox, not to mention if this hurtbox reduction applies to ex blast too: It will be a great anti air!

• Can follow up Yoga Blast with additional moves for combo.
-What I don’t quite understand, is what capcom means: Light kick blast has 45 frames recovery, which leaves no room to use “additional moves” or comboes. Roundhouse blast has only 22 frames recovery, which does leave some room, but is almost useless, as there is no way to react to anything (Except Kens U1 and Vipers U1) with 30 frames startup. Even ex blast has 30 frames recovery, which I can’t see how you can follow up with anything. My only guess is that the blasts will have less recovery, and this directly conflicts with what capcom wrote earlier: “But other frame info unaltered”. I realize now that this has to point at standing light punch only, which opens the possibilities for even more frame buffs on dhalsim!


#3

@SimSim, I could have sworn I read that the hurtbox reduction did no apply to LK blast. I could be wrong though. And I thought the tidbit re: “other frame data unaltered” was talking about frame data on normals only.

The part about combo followups after blast has me curious as well.

In the past, has Capcom threw in extra changes that were not listed in the dev blog? God, I hope st.LP helps even a little bit against dive kick shenanigans. I haven’t been able to make cr.MP work for me. :frowning:


#4

*Can follow up Yoga Blast with additional moves for combo. (again? did they decrease recovery after it lands? what? *

maybe now we can finally followup a Yoga Blast with Catastrophe.*
*


#5
  1. Hurtbox does not mean Hitbox. Hurtbox is the vulnerable area while you do your move. So a reduced hurtbox means LESS trades. Unfortunately from what another translation said, the reduced hurtbox is only on MK and HK Blast.

  2. It looks like only HK Blast will juggle. If this is true it is the most pointless and worthless “buff” ever.

  3. EX Flame nerf is turning out to be the biggest and worst nerf overall in AE. I would gladly suffer with a 300 damage super if Sim’s normals got returned to Super and EX Flame did 180 again. As it is now there is no reason to ever use EX Flame unless you are fiending for 100 extra stun. B+HP xx EX Flame was his best punish and now it makes no sense to not do B+HP XX MP Flame.

This is the other translation from the SSFIV AE Blog posts AE 2012 changes part 1 thread:

Dhalsim
-Yoga Inferno’s damage is now 75x2+60x3 for a total of 330.

-EX Yoga Blast’s damage is now 90+50. So basically the first hit gives 20 more damage, while the second hit gives 20 less. So if you trade hits with your opponent this will give you slightly more damage.

-Standing LP now has 4 active frames instead of 3. However, the overall frame length for this move has not been changed. (TL note: this either means start-up has been reduced by 1 frame, or recovery has been reduced by 1 frame).

-Dhalsim’s vulnerability hitboxes on medium/heavy Yoga Blast has been made smaller, so he’s harder to hit during these moves now.

In addition, HK Yoga Blast will now put your opponent in a state of juggle.


#6

As you say, it makes no sence to get a juggle state of a HK blast. There is no way to antiair with it outside very special sittuations, so let’s hope this is false. If that same source also sais that light kick blast doesnt get a hurtbox buff, I choose to believe this is false too:(

Also, standing jab only had 1 active frame before. Now will have 4!


#7

Ex flame combos with jab/short on counterhit. Make a good guess if they try to poke you and they eat 150 dmg. It’s not a punish move anymore. Be creative and make counter hit setups. For example far cr.mk then short slide xx exflame. He hits 150 or a decent amount of chip damage and you’re safe. LuckyD used that soo much @ EVO and landed most of them.


#8

The whole translation is as follows (From Unity). Sounds like maybe some of his normals were slightly buffed?

Dhalsim
Without influencing the total balance too much, the damage on a number of his moves has been modified, and the goal of making the character easier to use was kept in mind for changes.
[Yoga Inferno]: Damage has been increased to 752+603, totaling 330 points.
[EX Yoga Blast]: Damage total remains the same at 140, but damage between the two hits has been redistributed by adding 20 to the first hit and subtracting 20 from the second, resulting in 90+50. Thus, returns from the initial hit are increased a little.
In order to make the character easier to use,
[LP]: Active hit frames of this move have been extended to 4 frames. However, the total frame time needed to execute and finish the move has not been changed.
[M. & H. Yoga Blast]: Hittable area has been reduced.
[H. Yoga Blast]: After a hit, the player can now follow up with other attacks to combo.


#9

dhalsims buffs = dhalsim now has a new move where he can spin his arm around himself twice and stick his finger up his @$$!! …

seriously … with everyone else getting buffed like crazy its not looking good for sim … im so mad … the least they could have done is give him some aggression back with the damage … its not like he has combos … or a decent forward dash … or a consistent way to stop dive kicks apart from losing meter with ex blast …

i honestly thought that with all the buffs everyone else is getting he would atleast get SOME damage buffs back … seriously every match up in the game … (apart from feilong and the twins and makoto) got just a little bit harder … im extremely annoyed …

linking after blast … REALLY ??? are capcom on cocaine ? how often does a good sim even use that move apart from pure desperation when theres no time to antiair except with an EX …
so whats the point of the damage switch to 90+50 if technicly hes harder to trade with the smaller hurtbox ?? yes i know hes more likely to land the 1st hit …

so they buffed the super back … wooptie fricken doo …
WHAT ABOUT ALL HIS BUTCHERED NORMALS !?

i mean if u wanna keep his pokes weak at least give him a scratch of health more … just to even it out …

the problem is … dhalsim is just one of those akward characters with his own set of rules … and any minor change to him has a huge impact on his whole game …

heres praying for a better buff before the release :confused:


#10

I have to agree with Emperor Cow. Some of the buffs given are a bit impractical.
Capcom needs to give dhalsim some damage buffs to even stand a chance.

I’m beginning to think Capcom hates this character :).


#11

I too, have to agree with Empereror Cow. At first I was a little hopeful, when other character had only gotten minor buffs, where I thought the blast buffs was generalized for alle versions off the move, and when it was looking like the twins and fei would get nerfed.

Now the twins and fei is nerfed, but I learn to find out about the long lists of buffs on sim’s “ok” matchups, and that the blast buffs actually are only spesific to mk and hk (lowered hurtbox) and hk (juggle state). If lk and ex blast was involved, at least we would be able to use the new buff, but without changed startup om mk and hk, it’s just as usefull as… ye " a move that spins his arm around himself twice and stick his finger up his @$$".

Here is to hoping sim will get butchered during the location tests in Japan, so that they re-think their balancing. I am affraid, like Emperor, that sim is one of those characters that, if buffed slightly too much, could be devastating to the other characters, and I feel Capcom therefore is a little reserved while buffing him, just to be on the safe side.


#12

While I must admit that I’m not happy with the changes as well, we need to admit that Dhalsim will be in a better place than he was in AE. So if the game ships out that way, we’ll, I’ll be happy since the AE nightmare will lessen a bit with the Twins, Viper and Makoto’s nerfs.

The fact that Zang and Sagat are being regarded as future top tiers also makes our lives better, since the metagame will be on our favor. It’s better that our good matchups are the most played ones than in AE where everybody was maining Yun


#13

um these changes are pretty nice lol, what are you guys complaining about hahaa.
super buffed 30, that makes a big differenece.
stand lp 4? active frames, lol. this is too good, think about it guys. Now we have 1 active frame and we will have 4. dive kick characters getting blown up by s.lp and if that doesn’t work, you b.mp, yoga blast or whatever. This also gives us a reason to anti.air with s.lp and be safe from almost every option woot. also using s.lp as a counter his setup, ohh from the right distance you can bait alot of things with it, and a big one. mp. slide to s.lp super easier.
hurt box on yoga blast reduced, wow cool. so get ready for less counter hits, need to see if sakura jumping fierce still stuffs out ex yoga blast.
so juggle properties, well you can juggle now with Hk yoga blast to super, ultra and even ex flame, but they probably lowered his frame data so it could be used more often. The only time i ever use Hk yoga blast is if I am canceling it into super for animation and a vertical punish. (i bet you guys are like HUH)

The only change i really wanted is b.rh hit-box changed back to its old origin.
Oh and whats up with ultra2 not able to punish all character dashes, PLEASE ONO FIX or at least have the option to use ultra 2 on ground and air, lol godlike.


#14

Super buff is good, and s.lp will be interesting! Hurtbox reduction is only for mk and hk version of blast, and I agree that for juggle with hk to be usefull, we need frame changes:)


#15

thing that people dont seem to understand is … yun , yang and feilong may still be nerfed … but the core elements that made those matchups hard still remain …

if you think about it:
feilong:

  • got his 2nd rekka nerfed … now at high level , when have u seen anyone use the 2nd rekka unless the 1st was confirmed ? its all about the 1st rekka and that is still the same … the matchup will not change much

yun:

  • 2nd hit on target combo got nerfed … lets think for a secong here … he has long enough true strings … did he really need it in the first place ? …
  • EX lunge punch is now -1 instead of +1 that may be good in someways but not in others … whats you’re reaction to it going to be ? b.LK ? slide.LK cancled into something ? jump back cuz your jump is 3 frames ? super sounds nice as a reversal but thats it … yun would still be safe … and following up with upkicks will stuff almost everything else you would think of … or worse … he can do nothing … its still a tough situation … its less pressure … but hes in your face so now what ?!
  • dive kick height restriction, you guys are cheering like you were able to stop yangs pressure in AE and it was higher and slower than yuns dives, he will still be able to delay the dive , he will still be able to alternate angles , and he will still have the option NOT to dive and hit you with a j.MK or whatever he likes … add to that he has +2 extra to his original recovery which means he most likely can jump back and piss you off … rufus does it and he doesnt even have a command throw , think about that for a second.

yang:

  • he lost a a bit of the projectile invincibility to the roll kicks, HE STILL HAS EX PEOPLE ! which if i recall is alot faster (even punishes EX yoga fire from most distances) plus he still has his dashes … so he will still get in weather you like it or not …
  • divekicks have -2 added to them now … doesnt mean they’re crap … its just that they had alot of frame advantage before … now they are pretty much the same as yun
  • his lp rekka is still -2 on block ! the update mentioned nothing on this … and it seems still the same
  • he has more recovery on his target combo … but people seem to forget that unlike yun … yang can acctually cancle his into palm … and make it relatively safer …
  • his st.LK is 5 frames now … but he STILL has his cr.LK and its STILL 3 frames !! and its the poke of chouce after an FADC fom a roll kick or a rekka in order to keep the true string going …

so tell me … how does dhalsim stand a better chance ? its all about changing their game plan a bit … those matchups will still be a major pain for sim …

OH WAIT … HE CAN COMBO FROM HK YOGA BLAST NOW !!! … please … >__> … when has any sim … good or bad … EVER connected that damn move … hell its not even necessary …

sim needs his damage buff back if he wants to stand a chance against anyone in this game… hell even HAKAN is sounding more dangerous (been using him for a bit) … start up oil is a threat ! … imagine starting the match with a FA while holding towards … and stuffing sim with a level 2 or 3 cuz he poked out a yoga fire or a limb on the start of the match … follow up with >+MP into oil slide and body press and let the mixup begin … thats 1/3 of sims life in the 1st 5 seconds of the match … im not saying this is how its gonna go … but its one senario … just to consider … (yes i know sim wins that matchup !!! thats not the point)

the rest of the cast just got alot better … hell even with makotos nerfs it doesnt mean she doesnt stand a good chance … she has faster hayate charge and on full she can armor break … i can just imagine some setups after untechable knockdowns where she can do a level 3 or 4 and be safe on block… plus makoto can still out poke sim and the only really safe poke sim has in that matchup is cr.MP which doesnt exactly do much … her setups, mixups and everything else still work … she just has to add in 1 more mixup …

the way sim is right now … or the way hs going to be … its just not looking any prettier …

oh yeah … before i conclude this rant …
abel got his damage back … and now he can FADC from the second change of direction … so … his mixup (AND damage output) just got alot better !! … did i mention his anti air is back too ? … looks like the abel-sim 7-3 might get alot worse …

enjoy your improved dhalsim … (spins arm around body twice and shoves finger up @$$) … >__>


#16

Well now I’m just depressed. Your right, we might have it a bit easier with mak,ffei,yun and yang, but the rest of the cast is just going to be harder. I honestly don’t see them doing much about it though. As you said he’s a character that can dominate match ups with a few adjustments. I don’t really know why giving him his damage back from super would hurt that much i mean he didn’t dominate anyone in super. Yeah he was good, but not nerf worthy.

Personally i think they need to give him all of his super damage back. s.lp be 4 active frames. Reduce hurt box on all blasts. Maybe make ex flame 140-150 damage. Right now the only purpose it serves is counter hit setups. Which is nice, but from the sounds of the AE blog it was designed to somehow make us have more damaging punishes pfft.

Honestly i was super excited about all the buffs other characters were getting, but if sim doesn’t get many, things don’t look very good for us.


#17

I am happy about the nerfs of the twins though, even though a lot of characters got buffs, it feels like Dhalsim will be able to deal with a lot of the top tiers now which is good, unlike in this AE version where the strongest characters beat up Sim pretty bad.


#18

what a pity… my only hope for this 2012 version was few invincible frames on flame EX’s startup, getting an new defensive tool.
I agree with Satyamdas: flame EX does ridiculous damage (compared to super version) and has changed drammatically the damage of the best punish.
Yeah, it can be comboed with b.lk/d.lk on counterhit…but which Sim will get close to the opponent to get a counterhit? lol

So, ex flame still will be used in limited situations :frowning:

Blast buffs? 90 damage for the first EX hit is good, but I would prefer the b.hk damage back!

standing lp with 4 active frames is a great buff!


#19

its actually funny you mention this gore, Ive actually been thinkng of doing a huge write up on ex flame. I actually think sim absolutly needs it and ive added it into my arsenal. The real reason i Love it in a nut shell is its +3 property. If you have “set ups” (which are really just BS spacing things) you get a bonus damage and all. But the abillity to make almost guarantee’d space with a +3 situation? Some matchups Idk how to get away without it (fei comes to mind). Like if im +3 and ex flame distance I almost always get a way which is soo nice.

Im not saying its awesome, but I dont know what Id do without it anymore.

Dirtiest frame trap ever? Against fei, do b.lk, d.lk xx ex flame (they block) then immediatly do ANOTHER d.lk xx ex flame, see how many times youll get the CH combo ( i bet its more the n 50%)


#20

You should explain more specifically “+3 on property” because the way im reading it you’re talking about frames and that would be wrong info (ex flame is -1 on block). Hell even I’m not sure what you’re trying to say LOL. Just dont want misleading info for the other players :slight_smile:

As for that sexy frame trap which works wonderfully on fei long you could change the 1st ex-flame to mp flame which gives the exact same setup and you’re saving one bar. That setup will calm any fei long who keeps spamming it.