So i was doing my daily stroll on eventhubs and I saw an article from arcadia magazine that posted the latest tiers in SSF4 AE 2012. The first thing I saw when I clicked the link was Juri under the A tier category. Okay, I know juri got some buffs to make her clearly better than her ae version. but i dont see her being in the same conversation as the other " A Tier" characters. Last I checked her defense is still ass. Thoughts? here is the link of the tier list from arcadia magazine.
that list is pretty damn awful, was written by one person who tweeted he left out hawk on purpose, but who knows. it’s a Japan list and I heard she is doing very nicely there… but unless I’m missing something I’m not seeing how she could be that high if this chart was based on MUs. Much of S tier shits on her as well as A and even some B characters. When it comes to tourney results in America she is lacking, but again that’s Japan. Maybe they have magical Juris but there is some wacky shit on that list.
edit: another thing that may of happened is with all the buffs over the updates people picked up Juri and players are still unfamiliar with her. Once Japan understands she is a real contender and learns how she works /the MU, like that she uses overhead after a crouch mp, instant overhead xx dive kick shenanigans really isn’t instant and you can see it coming a mile away when she use certain normals on you in the corner… she’ll probably drop a bit if she really is A.
no, I do not think she is A.
Juri has way too many bad MU’s to be A tier sadly, especially from the big dogs. She got some nice buffs in AE but nothing that would propel her up the tier lists like that guy is implying.
Maybe new juri tech that only the japanese scene is on right now? who knows.
I’d rate her at “fighting for a Top10 spot”. If that is A, then I think she is A.
She is low a tier high mid imo. Make sense. I dunno the list looks off but kaz the seth player created the list
What the fuck does kazunoko know? He also said vega was high tier. Show me.
apparently Ken is better than Akuma now. Shit, Bison is even better than Akuma.
Agreed. Juri is better than sak even though sak murders us. This list is soooo fubar.
I can’t win with Juri on XBL, so I don’t trust a Japanese pro player’s opinion.
You know that bad matchups don’t really matter for an overall placement? If Seth was 4-6 against Dan, he’d still be S-Tier, not suddenly worse than Dan.
Yes the list is kinda iffy but he pretty much places Juri where I would place her as well (you btw too, “low A”).
Good to see I’m not the only one who is disagreeing with Juri’s position in that tier list, she got some nice buffs in 2012 but it wasn’t enough ( especially considering I don’t use and don’t really like Ultra 1, which excludes me from like half of the AE2012 buffs straight away. )
Ikr. Chun isnt bad. C tier, um ok. Thawk is troll tier. Much better than s tier.
rubbish. what does then? tournament results? what if someone got lucky?. how many moves are + on block? lol… how free they are on wakeup? why are makoto and juri A tier then?. whilst it’s true that 1 or 2 bad matchups won’t alter the list, you can’t say matchups aren’t what determine the tier list at all. if you use it as a sort of character choice and viability list like that guy was doing recently, where as you’d do better playing the game as fei or cammy than you would playing as abel or blanka (which is basically what it is or should be) then matchup data is the most important factor.
take juri for example. 37 characters in the game minus her, of which juri has 15 bad matchups, 5 good matchups and 17 even. that means each time you play a match with juri there’s a 40.5% chance the odds will be against you, 13.5% chance the match will be in your favour and the remaining 46%, a chance at a level playing field (all in terms of character ability). given these points, how you can possibly think that a character is fighting for a top 10 spot, when almost half the time you’re playing the odds will be against you is completely and utterly beyond me. in my opinion juri is B tier and that’s the best you’re going to get.
now i don’t have specifics for the other characters so i’m open to being completely wrong. however, based on the knowledge i have playing against them and/or seeing them played i would edit that list like so:
chun and gouken to B.
bison, balrog, akuma and honda to A.
adon to A.
vega, juri and ibuki to B.
oni and hawk to C.
I can see points both for and against this, but it is abit of a Japanese thing, their Juri players are using pretty nifty tech that you guys still arent aware of.
However even then, there are alot of Anti-Juri techniques that, once applied properly, still makes life pretty hard for her, high priority jump normals to beat AAs, shortcut DP/Teleport mashing in FSE strings to prevent the high/low mixup, ultra punishing blocked expinwheels (only worth mentioning because of how long they have to react to the blocked pinwheel), forced expinwheel trade setups that cover a variety of extra options and overall capitalizing on the fact that she has a sub par fireball game with low health and stun to boot.
With other fighters in mind, i play worse characters in the grand scheme of things than Juri, shes definately not bad, id say shes not mid either though. So shes either low high or mid high, whatever you want to call it, but you might aswell say high tier in the grand scheme of things, which doesnt matter that much at the end of the day, Seth, Cammy and Ibuki (imo) are still blatently S tier due to how they incorporate the cheapest aspects of SF4 (unblockables and other cheap ambiguous setups, hard knockdowns and high damage).
When did I say that? I stated that Juri losing to Sakura doesn’t automatically mean she has to place below Sakura.
I’m far worse than you are, so take my opinion as whatever, but I think you’re severely underselling her.
what a baseless statement that is… lol.
i quoted you specifically saying bad matchups don’t matter in terms of tier lists, or am i misinterpreting something? as the internet is very good at this…
can you show me how and/or why you think i’m underselling her? i’m not trying to fight with you, but i’m genuinely interested in your thoughts. half of the time juri wins anyways is a pure lack of matchup knowledge. add the fact that the only useful benefits she gets in 2012 are close strong and her forward dash in fse, which if used carlessly can be as much of a curse as it is a blessing. people still use u2 more than fse, and even then if you play a good player in a ft10, they will figure out fse for the most part. also, people make uneducated, bullshit statements about how good she is just because of fse. eg: every meet up, every tournament etc i attend will return at least one comment along the lines of ‘man, juri’s so dangerous now with that ultra’ to which i reply ‘not really, it’s exactly the same… i can just get in quicker’. some how, according to them i’m wrong and don’t know what i’m talking about, even though i’m the one that plays the character. i could go on, but i can’t be bothered atm. i’m interested to see how you think what you do, though.
Genki pretty much makes this tier list crap. Unless there is a different matchup consensus in Japan…
I think the most important thing about a characters worth is how they do vs the average and common characters.
Great… I have a good matchup vs Dan and hakan. Sweet. I won’t run into any. Better put. If the tier lists were juri/ryu “s tier” and everyone else was d tier… Completely unusable…If ryu was her only bad matchup and 90% of the players played ryu… Then fuck s-tier she’s shit.
A real scenario. Rufus isn’t top tier but I’ll run into a lot of Rufus players…gives juri Problems. Run into bisons… Problems. Honda…problems…Sakura…akuma…
This is the problem juri has. The common characters are all annoying to her. Viper is the opposite. He takes care of a lot if common characters.
Ugh. My he’s hurts. I can’t explain that well. Hope it made sense.
Nah that was just me coming home, sitting down and using totally wrong words for what I wanted to say.
I wanted to say: Just because Sakura beats Juri, that doesn’t mean Sakura has to be placed higher in a tierlist than Juri.
Not talking about FSE at all. I don’t even use it.
Will post smth later. Also need to post in that matchup thread finally.
i didn’t mean that you were talking about it. it’s just that that’s really the majority reason as to why people think she’s good now, and that’s not even the case as i was saying.