AE 2012: Which ultra for each matchup discussion thread

guy

#1

Hi Guys,

I’ve been in the lab recently working on some ideas for which ultra is best for each matchup and, more importantly, why it’s the best ultra and in which situations it is best implemented. Back in Super I always used U2, then in AE I switched to U1 (pad player - kept messing up the precise 2 x half circle motion), and now I’m thinking I should always choose it based on the matchup instead of mashing my way mindlessly through the character select screen.

Of course in certain matchups, you could argue strongly for both U1 and U2. I figure I’m not the only person who’s been testing these things out. I thought as a group we could put our findings together to create a comprehensive list of useful ultra situations per matchup.

Generally speaking, I have found that U1 is best against projectile characters (especially those with more recovery frames) and U2 is best against characters with strong frame traps.

Here’s a couple of examples to get the ball rolling:

Abel - Ultra 2

Use after he does step kick or FADC change of direction. Also grabs him out of all of his rolls. If you can read when the opponent will go for a roll (e.g. after your neutral safe jump OS) then go for it!

Akuma - ?

I like using U1 to catch both normal fireballs and particularly jump back air fireballs. Can also be used as an OS to punish teleports.

However U2 can be used on wakeup to punish the crossup demon flip whiff into cr. LK vortex setup that many high level Akumas go for. It can also be used to punish his st. HK roundhouse kicks (unless at tip of hitbox range) on block because they leave him at -3 now.

Cody - ?

U1 can punish stone throws on reaction. Also (if you can have very fast reactions) you can also beat all ruffian kicks, tornado punches, and zonk knuckles. The danger is if he does the fake stone throw to bait this reaction, you will get punished badly!

U2 is very good for stopping Codys frame traps. Most Codys will keep hitting buttons when they get in there, especially after the lunge punch that leaves him at +4 on block. Also can be used to punish tornado punches and EX zonk knuckle on block.

I will post back with more findings! Hopefully by then some other Guys will have contributed!

Cheers!


#2

Ryu: my vote goes for Ultra 1

It punishes Ryus sweep on block, really obvious fireballs if your in range and can interrupt the gap between cr.mk xx Fireball if they are being wreckless with it.

Dhalsim: Ultra 1?

I’d say U1 only because hes one of the only characters you can reliably land U1 meterless in the corner. He has slow recovery on fireballs and although I’m really lacking on matchup experience Ive found U1 to be easier to land against him.

T.Hawk: Ultra 1?

I’m 99% sure you can punish all blocked condor dives with U1. I know I tested this and I think even ex dives get reversal U1’d. It was a while ago though.

Dudley: Ultra 2?

Punishes even lp machine gun blow on block. Most of Dudleys moves leave him close enough on block to land a naked Ultra 2 too.

This ^^

I would say U1 for Akuma too. Just for ex run through an air fireball and catch him with U1 on the way down, with the new range on U1 its a lot easier and really takes only a little risk for a huge reward. I find if he didnt throw a fireball you have ages to just stop (and the armour as backup too) Also have never tested but have landed ex run through akumas far standing roundhouse into U1 too but it was horribly obvious he was about to mash hk :slight_smile: edit: plus you can punish blocked sweeps like Ryu.


#3

Abel- U2, you’ll stop most of his wake up and FADC game.

Adon Either will suffice. Though U2 can punish Jaguar Kicks that aren’t spaced, but if you have good reactions I believe both Ultras (u1 more) will beat Jaguar Tooth as Adon will land during your invincibility frames and won’t recover fast enough.

Boxer- U1

Akuma- Either will suffice. But U1 may be better if the match is going to be more footsie based.

Blanka- U1

Cammy- Either will suffice, in the given situations.

Chun- U1

Cody- U1, it shuts down his entire wake up game.

C.Viper- U1 Same with Cody, you may not get full ultra in 1 or 2 events but beats everything she has

Dan- Either will be of use, but more U1, U2 can just get a few things he does unsafely it will punish his spin kicks on reversal if its MK/HK/EX. LK is even so its safe, and you’ll take a gamble and since he can space it becomes a bigger gamble.

DJ- Either will suffice, since Deejay can be doing a lot of safe jumps (U2) and you can punish his sobats so you can get an easy chance for U1 with a st mp, ex hozanto FADC.

Dhalsim- U1, U2 doesn’t seem to be worth it this match.

Dudley- Ultra 1, unless Guy has ways for guaranteed U2.

E Honda- U1, I’ll give you credit if you can ever find a usage for U2 in this match… so much credit…

Fuerte- … pick your poison.

Evil Ryu- Either will suffice but U1 seems better

Fei Long- U1,

Hakan-U1

Ibuki- U1

Juri- U1

Ken- Treat this the same as any shoto. Either

Makoto- U1

M.Bison- U1, U2 isn’t useful since you won’t have many chances to use it against this man.

Oni- Treat as any other shoto

Rose- U1

Rufus- U1

Ryu- Any other shoto

Sagat- U1 similar to that Shoto business

Seth- U1.

T-Hawk- U1,

Vega- U1

Twins- U1.

Gief- Actually i’ll edit this and say either. Mainly because U2 can punish Gief for EX SPD from safe jump and it will also beat his U1, and Greenhands if they aren’t FADC’d. So it goes either or.

It’s basically a massive amount of U1, it works out better for Guy since most of his match ups he’ll be taking shots with footsies. Not many people will let themselves be unsafe even with U2 in your boat. U1 is the better option overall in a majority of his matchups. U2 only benefits if you know you’ll need it or know its going to be a definite in that Guy, with Dan can have a good amount of pressure on you, similar to Sakura but not as deadly if you sticks to using just lk dan kicks. Which if you have U2 he will most likely since that leaves him at 0, Mk/Hk leave him at -2 and EX leaves him at -3, so he’s open to U2 and if he does EX stupidly and you dont have it stock, U2 just tends to be punish for certain situations and thats it.


#4

Nice thread Nebbiez ok here is my list
Abel- U1

Adon- U1

Akuma-U1

Boxer- U2

Blanka- U1

Bison- U1

Honda-U1

Chun Li- U1

Viper- I prefer U2 but U1 is better

Ken- U1

Ryu- U1

Makoto- U2

Hakan- U2

Yun- U1

Yang- U1

Sakura- U1

Fei Long- U1

Oni- U1

Dudley- U2 is my personal favorite for this matchup

Dan- U2

Juri- U1

Zangief- U1

Vega- U1

Sagat- U1

Guile- U1

Dee Jay- U1

Gen- U1

Gouken- U2

E.Ryu- U1

T.Hawk- U2

Guy’s U1 and U2 is alot similar to Ryu’s U1 and U2 people prefer U1 because you can combo into it and it’s very useful and offensive while U2 is used for punishing wiffed moves and can comes in handy in some tight situations but U1 is clearly the better choice for Guy. I love using U2 to punish Balrog’s turn around punch and Hakan’s oil slide.


#5

Inc. long post, bored tonight so going through all the characters.

Abel - Ultra 2: you’re always going to use safe jumps on him O.Sing throws for the most part so you can easily condition him to ex tornado on those wake-ups, it remains a legitimate reversal threat throughout the entire match, the longer your set goes on the more in his head you should be, and being that he’s Abel you’ll need that advantage since he’s definitely gonna be in your’s due to abels ability to do whatever he wants on your wakeup.

Adon - Ultra 2: Self explainatory punishment, definitely has the ability to limit his options severely at many ranges.

Akuma - Ultra 1: the ONLY shoto i don’t typically use ultra 2 against due to extreme BS ability to cancel any normal into a demon elimitating half of my setups and never letting me close out a round with U2.

Balrog - Ultra 2, usually, ultra 1 if i know them to be extremely defensive non-risk takers: Ultra 2 punishes non-spaced TAPs and once he starts using them at a “safe” range you can psychic neutral jump them for huge punishes, also useful for empty safe jump gimmcks if they prefer to use ex dashes up wakeup. if they’re defensive players i just combo into u1 or reaction dash punches.

Blanka - Ultra 1: block any blanka ball in the corner, he eats and ultra, also you can option select it in the corner to beat the rainbow ball, and most importantly, when are you going to ultra 2 blanka?

C. Viper - Ultra 1: she has ENTIRELY too many options for me to do anything but take an ultra i can combo into.

Cammy - Ultra 2: punishes bad dive kicks, blows up counter hit happy players, punishes almost every drill, and pretty much completely changes the matchup in your favor.

Chun Li - Ultra 1: since EVERYTHING SHE DOES LEAVES HER AT FRAME ADVANTAGE, HAS MASSIVE RANGE, AND YOU CANNOT EVEN MASH OUT OF HER FOCUS ATTACK, ultra 2 is useless in this matchup imo. use the blanka ball corner O.S. to beat ex SBKs in the corner as well.

Cody - tosx up, i don’t have a setup that’s reliable against cody for ultra 2 minus mashing it out during their button pressing frenzies, but reacting to cody’s specials is fairly easy for u1 at predictable ranges, really depends on who i’m fighting really.

Dan - Ultra 2: punishes every single dan kick, see one come out start mashing and laugh at his ridiculously limited options.

Dee Jay - Ultra 1: can punish all of his sabot kicks with s.mp to ez hozanto and i typically have very little trouble pushing him to the corner, by far my most landed ultra 1 match up.

Dhalsim - Ultra 1: i don’t see u2 as viable at all and every combo in the corner will likely end in this, helps you seal the deal since you likely have an ultra up by the time you have him cornered.

Dudley - Ultra 2: Even with this ultra dudley players just DO NOT RESPECT THE WAKEUP, it probably also helps that people see my rank and go “he’s got lotsa points he won’t mash out an ultra on wakeup” too bad for them i don’t mash it out i just buffered it and press it if i see any movement next to me that doesn’t have him dashing backwards.

E. Honda - Ultra 1: standard combo into it scenario for me here as honda is typically never in ultra 2 range and if you catch him pressing a button it’s a headbutt anyway and you’re just getting hit out of U2.

El Fuerte - Ultra 2: deters them from going for slides on your wakeup incresing your chance of outplaying them(read, guessing) on your wakeup by dashing forward. also el fuertes LOVE to ex run on their wakeup, time it properly and turn one early game knockdown and 5 bad guesses into an even matchup.

E. Ryu - Ultra 2: punishes all axe kicks, enough said basically.

Gen - Ultra 1: gen’s spacing tools are entirely too good for ultra 2 to be viable imo, same as above basically.

Gouken - Ultra 2: beats the predictable palm fadc throw, baited parries off empty safejumps, you get 2 seconds to walk up and prepare to use it if he whiffs an ex tatsu, this match is basically guess work on his wakeup so you may as well get a hueg payoff for guessing right.

Guile - Ultra 1: you can’t really attack guile unless he’s in the corner anyway, and if you catch him c.RHing you get a free ultra from any distance. guiles also tend to flash kick anytime i’m not safe jumping their wakeup so i don’t see a viable way to land ultra 2.

Guy - Ultra 2: decimates your ability to apply safe pressure once you have it, play footsies or be damn good at reading your opponent once this ultra comes into play.

Hakan - Ultra 2: anytime a hakan Oil focus attacks me i start mashing on this thing and almost 100% of the time they get caught, probably wouldn’t work too well in an offline setting as people would hear the mashing. otherwise it’s very good to use it post bushin flip blocked elbow or a slight delay after a landed run overhead.

Ibuki - Ultra 1: Combo usage and you can capitalize on their habit of using non-short chip kicks(i forget what the hell they’re called, that thing they spam every combo).

Juri - Ultra 1: Spacing in this matchup is a nightmare and too many of her normals make her airborne for me to want to commit to ultra 2s. surprise ex hozantos are effective this matchup for me so landing the ultra comes just as fast.

Ken - Ultra 2: beats ambigious empty jumps, punishes blocked tatsus(RH tatsu on hit is also punished by this!) makes them afraid to followup after ex tatsu with anything but DP or jump away, c.mk to fireball can be focused through and ultraed, basically an option limiting ultra matchup.

M. Bison - Ultra 2: EX run gimmick ahoy! also lets you confidently push buttons after blocked ex. psycho crushers.

Makoto - Player specific, blind match Ultra 2: standard gameplan here acrossed the board, this is another guess what to do match up for me due to ex. grab, and makotos like to mash on that when pressured and makes them think twice about going for grabs ever.

Oni - Ultra 2: turns you into zangief whenever you have it so they can’t chop you anymore, severely limits their pressure and turns it into a footsies matchup, and while oni has the better footsies his long range normals are quite slow and quite focusable.

Rose - Ultra 1: complete footsies matchup, they tend to backdash alot and cl. mk your wakeup, both negate ultra 2 quite handily without much thought on their part. find their drill distance and s.mp that into punishes.

Rufus - Ultra 1: I don’t even have a good reason for this honestly, rufus randoms the hell out of me and i do not believe there is a safe move he has that is made punishable by the existance of U2. Typical combo into it matchup for me.

Ryu - Player specific : both ultras are very useful against certain playstyles, ryu has a very telegraphable safe jump off his c.rh and many comboes end in it so ultra 2 craps on those, beats dp FADCs and those are easy to bait, and you can focus his c.mk > fireball and ultra it, conversely ultra 1 punishes blocked c.rh, goes through c.mk to ex fireball making him never wanna press a button after it, and combos. pick your favorite.

Sagat - Ultra 2: Sagats are needlessly aggressive alot and this punishes alot of badly spaced knees, also run slide empty neutral jump to ultra 2 for some reason catches sagats almost all the time. this is more of a anti-player habit than anti character ultra choice, but i stand by it.

Sakura - Ultra 2: basically i mash out of their pressure, I’m a scrub i know but i don’t like characters who can safe pressure me non-stop while dealing chip.

Seth - Ultra 1: this match almost ALWAYS finds its way to the corner one way or another. and every seth is completely different so i typically can’t find a spot to confidentally believe they are pressing a button i can catch with u2.

T. Hawk - Ultra 1: footsies matchup for me, i’m too much of a coward to go in close to frame trap t.hawk into ultra 2

Vega - Ultra 1: same as above except he’s the coward in this case.

Yang - Ultra 2: yangs love to burn their meter into safe pressure, this makes them think twice…

Yun - Ultra 2: Dash punch deterrent.

Zangief - Ultra 3: Pick a different character. (i use ultra 1 really)


#6

Great post Brunaleski, you think a lot like me dude! Just reading through each line of your post, I agreed with just about everything you had to say! Great stuff! In particular I’d say that Bison definitely should be U2, contradictory to Blooddrunk’s post above. Dictator is a fish out of water when he’s mid-screen against Guy, he NEEDS to get him in the corner. Aside from the threat of U2 making them respect you when you’re in the corner, I find it very useful for counter-grabbing their st. MK/HK pokes to keep you in the corner. You can usually work out an offensive pattern of what they’ll follow up each scissors kick with. If you read a poke, throw out U2 and his ass is yours.

Also with Rose, while I agree it is largely gonna always be a footsie matchup which U1 is best for, U2 does have it’s uses. It can get you out of her slide kick frame trap/tick throw setup, it can punish soul spirals from close range and EX version from any range. But yeah, a trick I’ve found for U1 with Rose players who use the orbs (bad choice if you ask me, scarf grab is much better for her in this match!) especially in a defensive fashion is to wait for them to throw a soul spark while orbed up. Trust me, they’ll go for it. Just stay within U1 range and waddle back and forward, throw out a couple of quick safe pokes (even cr. LK will do) and she will almost certainly go for it, then you can react U1 and blow through both the soul spark and the orbs. Very demoralising!


#7

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Best line of this forum!