AE 2013 changes coming?

guy

#1

If they do indeed patch the game again, the only changes I wish they would do for Guy is:

Edit:

1). Adjust the hitbox of cl. roundhouse so it hits/can be blocked by all crouching characters.
2). Adjust the hitbox of st. fierce so that it hits/can be blocked by all crouching characters.
3). Make the Ninja Sickle better for frame traps (7-9f startup)
4). Adjust the juggle properties on his neutral j. RH so that he can juggle a run-slide afterwards anywhere on screen, regardless if it hits twice or not.

He’s already pretty much perfect, but those moves don’t really seem to fit as good a purpose as they truly could be. Guy’s already Top 15, but with those two changes he could be Top 10.


#2

I disagree that those two changes could push him up 5 places. Nj RH would be a rare occurrence, and as for df. rh - yes it’s slow but you can still use it as a frame trap now, and even then it’s only dangerous in the corner.
Overall not much would change.

Real changes need to be made to his ultra startup frames, so he’s able to land ultra after any hozanto in the corner, even EX hozanto without FADC.

Additionally, normal slide needs to go under ALL fireballs, either that, or keep it the same but make it a frame or two faster.

Lastly, all his elbows needs to have much better hit and block stun, never whiffing on crouching opponents.


#3

If his ultra 1 worked that way, he would be broken. The way it is now forces the player to have a dominant counter hit and corner control game. His normal slide is already gdlike, and he has multiple ways of going through projectiles, his slide is fine. The elbow drop has one of the best hitbox-hurtbox discrepancies in the game, and its designed to be used tactically, not just thrown out all the time like so many Guy players do. Plus it recovers in 4f when landing, the same as an empty jump, that’s amazingly good.
Ninja Sickle frame traps suck at this point: the move starts up in 11 frames and is -9 on block…so even if you followed up with it after a cr. jab or cl. mk, that’s still an 8 frame window. Considering that it doesn’t have any lower body invincibility, any move thrown out inbetween that trap will counter hit it, and no good players press slow startup moves inbetween Guy’s block strings…the move needs to be faster on startup in order to maximize it’s potential. Neutral j. RH if buffed would be invaluable against characters who dominate in the air such as Viper, Yun, Rufus, and Akuma, and would give him a solid defensive option in the air that would instantly give him the offensive advantage if he could land a run>slide afterwards. He just needs little tweaks, not big ones. Guy is intended to be difficult to play, and is also designed to be played VERY patiently in the neutral game and offensively during rushdown. We don’t want Capcom to make him brainless like Yun or Fei.

EDIT: I’m not trying to shit on your ideas, I just don’t want Guy to be made into a char everyone can play and dominate with.


#4

uhh… Elbow drop has 8 frames of recover when landing not four, if that were the case it could be used as a safe jump tool.

Also even though Ninja sickle is -9… unless your opponent is in the corner, you won’t be getting punished for it by most characters and most characters that can punish it don’t get a huge reward for it often except for Gief I believe he is still within his LP SPD range… You’re also put at a space where you can counter poke them. I mostly leave ninja sickle traps for meaties/resets. His normal slide keep use more blockstun… it would be more of a threat imo it used to be such a great entry point, the blockstun and pushback was perfect for Guy back then. Being at -2 isn’t exactly a good thing especially when the pushback isn’t all that great.

But from what I last heard 2013 wouldn’t be featuring any balance updates just system updates… though that of course could change.


#5

I agree with Luminare in as much as Guy is ALMOST perfect, and I don’t want to see him changed into a character that any old scrub can pick up and start abusing people with. The only thing I think Guy really needs is something that’s safe against grapplers. He can handle his own against T.Hawk and Hakan, but Gief is an absolute nightmare. Possibly one of the worst matchups of any 2 characters in the game. I think making LP hozanto 0 on block might be the way to do it.


#6

0 on block wouldnt make much a difference against Gief since he can still grab you if you were to press a button… but his frame trap game would go up a lot, he’d basically be a mobile Sakura at that point, which would cause him to be somewhat braindead.


#7

I agree that Ninja Sickle and Neutral Jump Hk needs buffing and would possibily be amazing. Ninja Sickle needs faster start up for Frame Traps and needs to do a little less push On-Hit so Guy can combo into Run Slide mid-screen. Neutral Jump Hk needs to also create a little less push On-Hit so we can combo into Fierce Tatsu easier mid-screen, after one or two hits. Also Neutral Jump Hk needs to create TWO Hits on ‘standing opponents’ so it would act as an Air Target Combo, much like Gens Neutral Jump Target Combo and like others. So if you do Guy’s Run Slide, Neutral Jump Hk. If your opponent Crouch before the second hit, it will create an Overhead and it could also potentially break Focus Attacks. Also Normal Elbow Drop needs its hit-box moved slightly downward to help beat Shoto’s crMk.


#8

That’s understandable. But with so many characters already being able to land ultra anywhere, (not just the corner with Guy) then even being able to combo ultra after shoulder, wouldn’t be broken compared to them.

I’m talking about making Guy strong enough to compare with the other half of the cast. If you think that’s broken, then half the cast must be broken already.


#9

This I agree with. Most people don’t even seem to consider Rufus to be TOP tier these days, and both of his ultras are broken compared to the rest of the cast. Space Opera Symphony particularly. All he needs is a cr. LK to hit confirm into a relatively unscaled ultra. The only way Guy could do anything like that would be close st. HP xx LP hozanto -> Ultra 1 juggle. But, as Pedro demonstrated recently, that’s a tricky corner specific setup that requires different spacing depending on the character. Highly impractical when compared to the easy braindead ultra setups of characters like Rufus, Abel, Ryu… to name but a few. Both of Guy’s ultras are very situational and it’s hard to land ultra 1 without so much scaling it is rendered almost a worthless waste of meter.


#10

Exactly what I mean. These characters (and many others i the top 10) you mentioned, always carry the threat of making huge comebacks because of how their ultras work. With the focus attack, you can build ultra meter regardless of whether you take real dmg or not.

Guy’s not gonna move up the ranks by giving him an extra frame trap; moving up the rank largely revolves around ultras, which is a big negative aspect to this game.


#11

I wish they would give ninja sickle some decent lower body invincibility so that it could be similar to a hopkick but I think the most important thing is that the elbow drops do more hit stun and hit lower like most people have said before. other than that I dont think he really needs anything but it would be nice to have some improvements since they would be improving other characters as well, maybe make his run better with less frames on the stop animation?


#12

True, some characters can combo easily into their ultras like Boxer, Ryu, and Rufus, but characters that can do this also lack a different tool (except ryu, but his ultra 1 doesn’t give awesome damage, just solid damage): Boxer has no cross-up or unique normal overhead, Rufus doesn’t have great normal moves to fall back on for footsies, etc. Guy’s Ultra 1 can lead to 500+ damage easily off a counter hit, and it allows him to maintain his corner pressure. In reality, the elbow drop isn’t designed to be used as a dive kick-type tool where you just do it. It’s used for 50/50 jump ins, avoid projectiles, etc. Making it NOT hit lower and making the hit stun mediocre is the Capcom’s way of highlighting Guy’s strengths (you gotta do pro links for good damage after landing an elbow drop from a 50/50 jump in, most chars can easily whiff punish/anti air an elbow drop if you just do it…so…DON’T just do it lol). Besides, a character design that makes the player feel the need to jump in to initiate offensive a flaw, in my mind. Rufus has to jump to be effective, Cammy to a certain degree needs to jump to be MOST effective (though her footsies are amazing so she can always just play ground game). Guy has tremendous ground game, so he really doesn’t need his elbow drop unless its for setups. His ultra 1 is easily landable if you’re anywhere near the corner, and it does good damage in good combos.
Like I’ve said, if they’re going to buff anything, they should buff the things that correlate with his strengths. Now if they made his run stops a possible 0f on block…holy fuck lol, that would be sweet. Broken, but sweet!

Elbow drop can be used as a safe jump tool my friend :wink:


#13

I really hope they don’t patch the game, I like the overall balance this time. But if they do this is my personal wishlist:

1: Target Combo to work the same on every character, no more shotos (and crouching Cody etc) getting out for free. Its nonsense.
2: Bushinflip to elbow drop needs to do chip damage!! I’m 95% sure that even elf’s run to sliding HK does chip damage and there is absolutely no reason why as a special move it doesn’t. Its super unsafe anyway.
2: Bushin Chain to not add to the juggle count. So (Bushin Chain ex Hoz FADC something) would be an option

[details=Spoiler]
At the moment the juggle numbers get too high for Guy to land anything other than super (impossible due to using 3 bars) or the 2nd hit of his HK/EX tatsu as far as I know which is also impossible as they spin too slow.
Juggle count removed would allow stuff like:

Bushinchain, ex Hoz FADC Ultra 1.

Bushinchain, ex Hoz FADC HK/EX bsk

Bushinchain, ex Hoz FADC ex Hoz

Bushinchain, ex Hoz, HK/EX Bsk (incorner)

Bushinchain, ex Hoz, ex Hoz (in corner)
These would be scaled to hell anyway so dont see why they cant happen. They would be useless outside of going for the stretched win or just showing off. Bushin chain adding to the juggle is just stupid anyway, its not a special move.[/details]

Also looking back I have actually said the same 3 changes since before August 2010 o_O
edit: spoiler tag was wrecking my head must have hit edit 20 times by now. >:(


#14

My personal thoughts as Guy user :

  • Ex tatsu fadc-able ,otherwise it s too risky to use it most of the time, he would have at least one chance to counter/escape pressure
  • Ninja sickle faster start up (8fr should be cool) for frame traps purpose, as you said before and less recovery on block
  • Slightly increase st mp forward hitbox
  • Elbow drop + 1 on block, at least
  • Neck flip should always hit twice aganist all focus attacks in the game,because Guy doesn’t have a fast armor breaker move,except for ex hozanto but is still risky though
  • Less recovery for cr hk , just if spaced correctly
  • I agree with cl hk and far hp fix up

#15

So its similar to a dive kick making elbow drop +1 on block is pretty hard, cause it can already be + if you hit on the later frames from bushin flip, I think at best its +5/6, regular elbow is fine in the same situation, I agree he needs more blockstun but its hard to ask simply for +1 due to where it hits unless you meant top of the head


#16

Yup,maybe you re right, my idea was for take more advantage on block to keep pressure on…most of the time Guy eat a sho or throw if try to follow up…just some few careful fix would make a big difference for him


#17

The solution to block stun frames is simple actually…you make the elbow hit crouching so you just add hit stun to that, no need to tamper with block stun frames. As for standing, make it +2 max from standing, so maybe even tall characters it would be 0 or +1.

While we’re at it, lets make Guy’s ex-tatsu have the suction element, like Akuma’s ex tatsu, so people don’t just backdash that shit lol


#18

The latter would be broken, but what you should do and see what they do on your wake up, if you see a backdash. EX hozanto, I’ve done this a few times.


#19

To be honest, I’m perfectly fine with what Guy has. He isn’t horrible at all nor does he need much else. He has everything you’d need.

  • decent pokes (enough to keep him safe for a little bit)
  • Left-right mixups, dealing with his elbow or his crossup (I have yet to meet a person that has godlike reactions to the point where he can react to elbow/crossup)
  • Reversal is OK where it’s at. I really don’t care if it’s not FADC-able. One of the joys of using Guy, making you think twice about burning meter when you could possibly use it for something else
  • Rushdown game is crazy. Arguably one of the best, if not,** the **best rushdown/pressure in the game
  • Anti-air is amazing. Crouching Medium Punch saves lives. Or you can go for Far Standing Hard Kick
  • Both Ultras have their uses. One being** INVINCIBLE **and the other being decent and never losing to a normal.

If there was anything missing from Guy’s arsenal of attacks and such, it would be a projectile. And besides, people can’t tell you that you won because of your character. If anything, Guy is one of the low-mid tier characters. Guy is not OP. One less complaint people can drop on you for losing, right? :tup:


#20

Both Ultras are invincible Nem, Just U1 has more invincibility, his left right mixups are easy to disfigure though, people just don’t know what to look for.